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Thinking about upgrading my software


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So I dont think I'm very happy with n-track. It does a good job for the price, but there are many things i'm not happy about. So what other options do I have? I'm not a big fan of spending ridiculous amounts of money on software, it just doesnt seem right, but a nice solid sensical program with good features would be nice. So what would you suggest? I wouldnt really be willing to spend any more than $200-$250.

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Software is one of those things that is pretty personal... you have to take several factors into account. For example, if you need to be able to quickly and easily interface with a pro studio, Pro Tools is a good option, simply because it's so widely used in commercial facilities. That makes moving sessions from your studio to the pro facility a much easier task. Of course, you can always consolodate your tracks, export them and import them into any other program, but you lose your routing, your effects, etc. when you do that.

 

If you're a big MIDI user, then PT might not be your cup of tea. I came to PT from Logic (and before that, C-Lab Notator), so it was a bit of a shock to lose that great MIDI functionality. Sonar has great MIDI features too. It's not that PT is horrible for MIDI - actually, they've made a lot of imporvements to it in that regard over the past few versions... but if you need "power user" MIDI features, I think there are better options available. But for run of the mill, everyday MIDI tasks, PT fors fine now. The biggest thing I personally miss from Logic is the editable MIDI notation display. I hate the "piano roll" metaphor in PT, because I have to "look" in two different places to get all the information - note pitch and length / velocity, etc.

 

For me, PT is incredible for audio recording and editing. The program is laid out very elegantly with only two main screens, and the workflow for audio tasks is superb. However, PT M-Powered or LE does have a maximum active track count limitation of 32 tracks, which doesn't work well for some people who like to work with small, seperate "clips" for each "event" in a song. Since I'm a member of the "Geezer Brigade", and grew up on analog decks, that 32 track limit doesn't bother me as much because I tend to approach things from a more old school angle, with each track belonging to an individual instrument, or submix of instruments.

 

Okay, I've rambled on for long enough - I recommend trying downloadable demos of as many programs as you can, to see what works well for your needs and preferred working methods / style. If you have any friends who record, ask them to give you a demo and overview of how things work in their software... and also make sure you ask them what they DON'T like, and what their biggest complaints about their software are. Base your decision on what works best for you.

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Originally posted by Explorer

Ableton Live should not be forgotten. With the recent release of version 5, it seems to be better than ever for a DAW set-up than it has ever been.

 

 

this is true.... i love ableton... differnt way of working but very creative.. i'm loveing ver 5..

 

with Protools and ableton i have everything i want.

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well i've never heard of m-audio hardware so i'm assuming i havent got it. I'll be a little more specific (like i shouldve been at the start):

 

I don't use MIDI. I compose your average drums bass guitar vox tracks. I use VST plugins. That's all I can think of that's relevent...

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Originally posted by rhythminmind

i have to recommend Protools M-powered.


i've used just about everything. I'd never thought i would say this but i now think digi is giving great bang for the buck..


you need m-audio hardware to use it tho.. what hardware do you have?

 

 

rhythminmind, ProTools M-Powered will only take RTAS-plugins, right? No AU or VST?

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yes you need wrappers if you wanted to use non protools plugs (RTAS)..

 

i used to be the vst plugin king but the Protools plugs just seem to be a step ahead.. i haven't wanted to grab a vst sense i've switched..

 

the LA3a, 1176, and URS EQ's are more important and ultimately more useful to me then my old collection of 9087875452 vst's.. thing is i would kill to be able to use my RTAS in my vst hosts like ableton but i have no desire to get vst's into protools. just dont need em.. but if i ever do it will cost $99..

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Yup - PT LE only uses RTAS format plugs, unless you spring for a wrapper. The FXpansion VST --> RTAS wrapper works great on most things, and is priced reasonably at $99. For me, it's a worthwhile investment, because there are still some things available as VST's that I like that you can't get in RTAS format.

 

For example, I really like the Blockfish compressor a lot... and it's VST only. Even better, it's FREE. :cool: I also have some Yamaha effects that come bundled with the 01X / i88X, such as their pitch correction plug in and the 01X channel strip plug in, and those are VST only. VST plug ins seem to be a pretty mixed bag of crap, with some useful stuff thrown in, with the occasional brilliant product or three hidden in there, so you might have to hunt around a bit and try a bunch of demos to find the stuff you like, but having the wrapper allows me to use the useful stuff in PT. IMO, it's a cool product that expands the available plug in choices for PT users... and I'm all for "more options". :)

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Remember that VST covers both effects and instruments. I agree with the "mixed bag of crap" analogy. But there is absolutely brilliant stuff out there for free, or cheap.

 

With so many commercial plugins being A/ too expensive, B/ not significantly better than freeware, and C/ protected with challenge/response indecencies, I find it much preferable to D/ avoid them like the plague and use freebies or sensible shareware.

 

 

The choice, quality and total cost of plugins is a significant factor in choosing a DAW. Do the homework first to avoid disappointment.

 

Full Plugin Delay Compensation - on all busses - is important. Insist on it, especially if wrappers are involved. Cubase SX3 is a delight to use because of full PDC.

 

 

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All plugins (regardless of format) have a latency time, which is the time it takes to process the midi and/or audio data.

 

If you are playing live, there is nothing that can be done about that plugin latency.

 

But - when playing back pre-recorded tracks, it is very possible for the DAW to be able to compensate for the plugin latency. The plugin reports the latency back to the DAW, which can then bring the audio stream forward and the end result is that your processed audio is exactly where you expect it to be.

 

If you DAW doesn't compensate for plugin latency, you are going to have to manually align your tracks up. Sometimes - with plugins that have a long latency - that means you have to insert a track delay on every other track that doesn't use that plugin.

 

Some DAWs (or versions of DAWs) might compensate for Insert plugins, but not for Send plugins. Plugins can be inserted at several points (inputs, inserts, sends, master) and it is nice to know if your DAW compensates for latency at each possible point. Cubase SX3 offers this - I don't know about others, I haven't checked.

 

The problem of not having full PDC is the risk of phase and timing problems that you didn't bargain for.

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I'll chime in with a thumbs up for the great, unwashed marketplace of free (and not so) VST (and DX) plugs. I resisted popping $40 for the Cakewalk VST wrapper, because I knew I was going to upgrade to a newer ver with a free wrapper.

 

I had thought the free DX plug in and synth scene was pretty cool -- but I was in no way prepared for the truly vast array of free VST plugs and synths. It was one of those things where you just want to cry at the generosity of people.

 

 

[Personally, I'm a happy Sonar 4PE user, so I'd recommend at least taking a look at Sonar Home Studio. But, as noted, not everybody has the same priorities or works the same way. As noted, PT LE has pluses and minuses, but if you need to quickly interface with mainstream studios, it can be your entre. Cubase users seem to really like the latest version. Tracktion has definite charms. I think there's an entry level of Samplitude for around $300 that some folks swear by (the big draw with Samplitude, seems like, is high track counts on modest hardware; but the entry level version [and more expensive mid-level?] is track limited, like PT LE, if I remember correctly.) ]

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I am also looking.

 

I'm going to go Cubase SE.

 

My reasons:

 

1. I HATE Cakewalk user interfaces. I bought HS 2004 last year. It was a dud. It just sits there. I never did get it to recognize my MIDI interfaces.

 

Funny thing - Digital Orchestrator Pro (a classic) and Cubase 5.0 VST both pick it up on boot.

 

2. I'm more familiar with Cubase format.

 

3. I have an old version of Wavelab which I LOVE.

 

4. I bought SoundTower Editors for my Triton LE & Roland RS-9. The editors import the patchmaps into Cubase via sysex. They don't import it into any other software.

-----

 

In my opinion, the only appealing feature of Cakewalk products for me is they have the most complete patch maps in the industry.

 

I like Tracktion a lot. I've recorded with 1.0 and I like the interface. I did not buy it though because it is sorely lacking in patchmaps. The last I heard, it only mapped to GM. You have to make your own *.ini files.

 

Since I use XG with 676 patches, I am not about to write a patchmap for XG. It should already be onboard.

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And, see, now, I didn't like working with Cubase, last time I tried. (Although that was a long time ago and I'm sure they've substantially improved the UI. They would have to have done so for Steinberg to still be in business, let alone Cubase getting thumbs ups from clearly knowledgeable users. It's a big world. :) )

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all major DAW software is pretty damn good these days..

 

i've used many. i migrated from Acid, N-track, cubase, nuendo, samplitude, to protools/ableton... thats just what i've liked enough to use, i've tried many more.

 

i've settled down with protools i had to stop fighting my environment, my work and industry have made it standard. and as far as audio goes i love the editing/interface.. the RTAS plugins are a must for me now as well.. Stability is also a must for me..

 

make a list of what you need and try the different demos..

 

my list ranks

 

Protools/Ableton

samplitude

Tracktion

Nuendo or cubase

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