Two more questions before bedtime!

[badgererer]

I'll leave these here and hopefully have good answers when I come back. Thanks!

 

 

Do i finally understand compression?

 

I think I've finally nailed an understanding of compression. Something like strumming an electric

 

guitar would need little compression right? cause its all at a similar volume with little in the way

 

of peaks and troughs. Whereas vocals need a quite moderate compression, otherwise belting out those

 

loud notes would still be very loud. I'd imagine the attack would need to be quite short too,

 

because those loud belted out notes wouldnt be lasting very long. You'd need a compression with a

 

high attack to catch that vocal before it pops out loud and sudden? And then a fairly high level to

 

ensure the quiet parts are still up there competing with the loud bits. Am i understanding

 

correctly? I bloody well hope so.

 

 

So what are your panning rules?

 

You see, I listen to cds and i think about my recordings, and i was wondering whether there were any

 

particular rules to what should be panned where. I can already imagine people queueing up to tell me

 

that whatever you feel is right is right, but i wouldnt mind something a little more specific when

 

it comes down to the bones of a song.

 

Most any song I will be recording will have Drums, Bass, Guitar and Vox. So I've got 8 tracks in all

 

(two for each). Where would you pan these? I'm sure there must be a reasoning as to where everything

 

should sit, e.g. vox near the middle, drums panned hard left hard right...but I dont know what that

 

is. Do you?

 

In addition to this, when it comes to "extra" tracks (maybe another guitar track for the chorus), i

 

usually limit it to one track and pan it on one side, as i see it as an extra, not an integral part

 

of the main meat of the song. If you catch my drift. Is this a typical thing to be doing? Thanks.

[AudioMaverick]

1. For me, Compression & Expansion kind of coexist -- Compansion. The basic idea is to find the happy medium in length of inconsistent amplitude of a passage. It could be any player (guitar , drummer, etc.) player that has trouble keeping a stable amplitude. I would use a dynamics processor to accelerate a light rise to be louder than it was played and/or compress a louder passage to more closely line up with a passage that sounded more like what is expected. Attack time will affect how quickly this kicks in, and how long it sustains. I think you are on the right track in your thinking. If you set the attack to fast and the sustain too long, the result gets close to square waves. That may be good for a kick drum. Maybe not for a guitar, especially at a fast tempo. I think if you experiment a little, you catch on pretty quick.

2. For panning, I like to listen to the band/artist in a typical live environment, first. I prefer to reproduce them to as closely match their performance as possible. Then, I pan them to approximate their stage setup. From there, I make adjustments as needed to flatter a stereo or surround presence. The one thing I like to do is put a drum kit in a stereo field, as much as possible. If I can mic. just about every thing (usually 6 to 8 mics), I use the overheads as the main image. Then I bring up the individual close-mics only as much as needed to compliment and define the components of the kit. It engulfs a classic rock setup, for me.

 

Everyone has different approaches. I even do. A cookie-cutter approach makes for bland product. As they say, YMMV.

[Kiwiburger]

Compression is a much misunderstood and abused effect. The golden rule should be, if in doubt leave it out.

 

Wild dynamic changes are best resolved with mic technique, or riding the fader.

 

A compressor is probably best considered as a means of changing the shape of an audio envelope. For example, you can compress a snare and by varying the attack, change the amount of stick. Or compress a tom, and by varying the release, change the length of the resonance.

 

Compression is a good way to damage your sound. It can be abused simply to make your audio loud, but that is something best left to the mastering engineer.

[geek_usa]

Originally posted by AudioMaverick 1. For me, Compression & Expansion kind of coexist -- Compansion. The basic idea is to find the happy medium in length of inconsistent amplitude of a passage. It could be any player (guitar , drummer, etc.) player that has trouble keeping a stable amplitude. I would use a dynamics processor to accelerate a light rise to be louder than it was played and/or compress a louder passage to more closely line up with a passage that sounded more like what is expected. Attack time will affect how quickly this kicks in, and how long it sustains. I think you are on the right track in your thinking. If you set the attack to fast and the sustain too long, the result gets close to square waves. That may be good for a kick drum. Maybe not for a guitar, especially at a fast tempo. I think if you experiment a little, you catch on pretty quick. 2. For panning, I like to listen to the band/artist in a typical live environment, first. I prefer to reproduce them to as closely match their performance as possible. Then, I pan them to approximate their stage setup. From there, I make adjustments as needed to flatter a stereo or surround presence. The one thing I like to do is put a drum kit in a stereo field, as much as possible. If I can mic. just about every thing (usually 6 to 8 mics), I use the overheads as the main image. Then I bring up the individual close-mics only as much as needed to compliment and define the components of the kit. It engulfs a classic rock setup, for me. Everyone has different approaches. I even do. A cookie-cutter approach makes for bland product. As they say, YMMV.

 

 

or you could just call it creative compression...

 

"expression".

[badgererer]

Wise words...what about panning?

[doug osborne]

 

Originally posted by badgererer Wise words...what about panning?

 

 

It's probably time for you to sit down in front of a couple of speakers and listen to a variety of mixes, from music that matches the style you are working with.

 

The word "stereo" has nothing to do with panning mono instruments, and doesn't even connote "two" - it comes from the Greek sterios , meaning solid. The first approaches to stereo audio, to present a more solid image to the listener than one channel can, included three front speakers.

 

Working with two speakers, often the challenge is to give enough space for the center-panned - phantom - sounds. Along with EQ and reverb, panning is an important tool.

 

Remember that anything panned to the center - played equally from the right and left speakers - will have more output (it will be played by twice as many speaker drivers, cabinets, amplifier channels, etc.), and will be changed in frequency and time (by the size/shape of your head, and the time it takes for right sounds to travel around your head to your left ear and vice versa) than the same sound eminating from just one speaker.

 

Some engineers start with a mono mix and pan less-important sounds right or left appropriately to leave space for the important sounds. Some start with vocals, kick, and bass panned center and everything else panned wide left and right. Reverb can be used as a front-to-back control, and EQ can be used as a height control - but these approaches are subjective. Stereo instruments or drumsets can be used naturalistically - drums nearly mono and placed as if you were hearing a drum set from a stage - or fantastically - the twenty-foot-wide drum set and piano. It's all good, as long as you are supporting the song.

[rhythminmind]

Compression is as much an artistic tool as a technical tool.. it's something you really just need to sit down and play with. read how it works and then apply that to your tracks... use it to smooth, punch, level, overall color your sound. think of compression as an effect like anything else..

 

"if it sounds right it's right"

 

as far as panning goes i imagine i'm watching the band play live and place the instruments on the stage or room..

 

nothing set in stone. i'm a drummer so i pan my kit like i'm sitting behind it.. kick, snare, bass, vocals are panned center for the most part..

 

thats just standard panning. i use it for effect when needed...

[kurfu]

I've heard a compressor explained as having an engineer with perfect reflexes riding the fader during playback:

 

Thresehold - how loud the track needs to be before he does anything.

Attack - How quickly he should react when the track volume reaches the thresehold.

Ratio - How far down he should lower the volume with respect to how far above the thresehold the track volume goes.

Release - How long he should wait after the volume is no longer above the thresehold to turn the fader back to it's normal position.

 

So... just imagine this guy sitting there with his perfect hearing and relexes and riding the fader of a particular track during playback - that's what a compressor does. More or less.

[Majoria]

For compression, start with none and see what really needs it. Don't just add it cause you can or cause everyone else does. My last drum take required hardly any compression on anything which is not very common but it's what the song called for.

 

I start with a personalized default pan and then go from there.

 

Vocals right in the middle (common for many engineers)

Kick drum right in the middle (again common for many engineers)

Rest of the kit panned from the drummers perspective (most engineers will pan as per the audience's perspective)

Keyboards more to the right

Guitar more to the left (usually the first thing to get moved around)

Bass in the middle, effects to the right.

 

Again, that's a starting point. If I left everything there, it would make every song sound the same.

[Phil O'Keefe]

I've heard a compressor explained as having an engineer with perfect reflexes riding the fader during playback: Thresehold - how loud the track needs to be before he does anything. Attack - How quickly he should react when the track volume reaches the thresehold. Ratio - How far down he should lower the volume with respect to how far above the thresehold the track volume goes. Release - How long he should wait after the volume is no longer above the thresehold to turn the fader back to it's normal position. So... just imagine this guy sitting there with his perfect hearing and relexes and riding the fader of a particular track during playback - that's what a compressor does. More or less.

 

Nice, concise explaination.