What mic?

[boxhollow]

I currently use a pod for recording guitars and I am not particularly happy with the sound I'm getting (any hints on how to make them sound good would be appreciated too) anyhow....The damn thing sounds better when I run it through the effects return of my blue voodo amp (only amp I have)....which unfortunately sounds good clean but really craps out when it is on it's gain channel.....anyway I wanted to see if I liked the recorded sound of the pod through the amp but I only have two mics....an ATM31a from audio=technica and an AT4050 from audio technica....would either of them be decent for micing a guitar amp....and for that matter a bass cabinet because I'm having a hell of a time getting a decent Bass sound with my bass pod or through the direct out on my ampeg B2R. Any help on the mic selection or on how to get a decent bass sound down would be appreciated. Thanx in advance....Jeff

[Phil O'Keefe]

Wow, good guitar tones and good bass tones.... okay...

 

Let's start with the guitar: I own a Pod XT, and IMO, they're very useful, but I still like to be able to mic up amps. IMO, you need a good dynamic mic. When it comes to dynamics on guitar amps, I usually go to one of four mics: The Shure SM57 (the "classic" workhorse), a Audix D2 or i5 (both of which I frequently prefer over anything else) and sometimes a Sennheiser e609 (for when I want a bit "darker" tone). All four of those mics are great "up close" on guitar amps, and none of them should cost more than about $125, and a couple of them are less - closer to, or a bit under $100.00.

 

The AT 4050 can also work well on guitar amps, but IMO, they'd be better suited for a bit more distant placement as a supplement to a dynamic mic up close.

 

IMO, the trick to POD recording is to tweak your own patches and not just rely on the presets. Back the effects down... most devices of that type have presets (and gain, on the distorted patches) that are too "over the top" for my personal tastes - probably in an effort to "wow" people in the music store. Also, I generally would recommend either running it direct from the POD's output into the recording gear (with the speaker emulation "on") or plugging them into the front of a clean amp (with the speaker emulation "off") than sticking them into the effects loop of an amp, but YMMV on that.

 

A large diaphragm condenser can work very well on bass cabinets, so I'd try your 4050 on your bass amp and see if you like that better than the Bass Pod. While I sometimes mic up a bass amp, I always run a direct... either simultaneously with a bass amp mic (with each going to a seperate track) or by itself. While I do have one of the original Bass Pods (not an XT), it's giving me some noise and weird tones at the end of notes, which I really dislike, so I hardly ever use it.... although the "direct out" from that can sound pretty good, and doesn't seem to suffer from the same problems as the amp / cab emulated output.

 

If you need some mic placement suggestions, just let us know.

[boxhollow]

Thanks for the tips on mic's I think I'll buy an sm57....I should have one anyway....as for the bass......I have tried direct in from the bass pod and from the the back of my B2R...neither ever really sounds that great. It must be something I'm doing. I'm a fairly competent bass player so I don't think it's my playing. I play an MIA jazz bass and most of my music is rock to heavier rock. Is their some eq that I should be applying while tracking?.....Should I have one pickup louder than the other....when you set up a bass player, direct in, with a jazz bass what do you do? (Use a nice DI, huh)....And do you suggest using both the mic signal and direct in signal mixed together. (Iknow taste dictates, but right now I'm trying to find a nice baseline that I can expand from). I know I'm playing twenty questions and alot of this is trial and error but I would like you to know that the advice given is truly appreciated. Thanx again....Jeff

[seaneldon]

I don't have one set way of recording guitar or bass. Actually it's almost always done completely different with every client that I have.

 

For instance, in last month's big session we did all bass tracks with an American Jazz (a particularly great sounding one) direct into a Universal Audio 6176 channel strip and it sounded absolutely perfect for that band, and that set of songs. No other after-tracking EQ or plugins were needed to get it to it's best. It already was there. Immediately after they finished their record we had another band in. The music was actually very similar, but the 6176 didn't work with these songs and this bass player.

 

Here's what I use, or at least TRY more often than other methods:

 

Guitar-

1) Sennheiser e609 (just tonight brought home the e906 actually and haven't tried it out. very excited. anyone using one feel free to review it here) right on the grill, B.L.U.E. Dragonfly (or any other quality LDC) about 3 feet back, at "drum overhead" height, facing downward at the amp.

 

2) Audix i5 or Shure SM57 (the i5 has been my pick out of the two ever since I got it. A far superior mic, as far as I'm concerned) and a Sennheiser MD421 in XY about 5 inches from the amp. Works a lot better on single speaker combo amps than half stacks.

 

Bass-

1) Direct into a tube preamp/channel strip. My favorites here are the Groove Tubes "The Brick" ($399), the 6176 ($2195), and my Mercenary Edition Avalon VT737 ($1750, which is $250 cheaper than the new SP model, which many people end up spending money on to mod to sound like the Mercenary one). With the exception of The Brick, which has no EQ at all, I find that I usually don't need many if any plugins or sweetening to get them where I want them.

2) Here's a cool one I've been doing for bands that want to track all at once in my now TWICE AS BIG live room. I use a Sansamp RBI rack going into an Aguilar DB728 incredible tube power amp, get a DI signal out of the Sansamp and stick an RE20 or a D6 in front of whatever bass cabinet is lying around at the time. I really like the Sansamp's tones in tons of situations.

 

So what I'm really trying to get at is that it's all up to your ears and what you think sounds good. I am not a huge fan of the POD. I had the rackmounted one for guitar that I was using for scratch tracks, but just sold it and got Native Instruments Guitar Rig instead. The POD, or any modeling processor really, is great for a home or project studio where loud amplifiers would quickly bring a police officer to the door. I'm not too fond on their tone, however, and actually am finding Guitar Rig to be more useful.

[where02190]

An SM57 is a great mic to have period, but a second for the sennheiser e609 silver. Killer speaker mic. Combine it with a 57, and you've got guitar heaven.

[ArrMatey]

what does everyone think of the ADK A 51? The new models look nice and heard it was sort of based on the neumann u87 technology.

[Lee Knight]

 

Originally posted by where02190 An SM57 is a great mic to have period, but a second for the sennheiser e609 silver. Killer speaker mic. Combine it with a 57, and you've got guitar heaven.

 

 

Do you use the 57 and the 609 at the same time? I never thought to do that. It's usually one or the other, then paired up with a condenser either at a distance or with the "grill mic".

 

How do you go about using the 57 and 609 together? Sounds interesting...

[Phil O'Keefe]

Not to answer for Where, but I've tried that a few times Lee... mostly when doing mic tests / comparisons. Stick 'em on a speaker and record each to a seperate track... pan to taste. The SM57 has more presence peak to it, and the 609 is a bit warmer / darker to my ears.

 

ArrMatey, I've heard some very good things from various ADK fans, but I still have not tried any of their mics myself. I've talked to the ADK folks at a few trade shows (AES, NAMM), and they seem nice enough, and also seem to really be passionate about mics and music / recording, but I can't say what the mics actually sound like until I've tried them out. But do know there are a couple of "reqular posters" around here who own ADK mics and like them... if you're considering buying one, you might want to start a new thread asking for opinions about them.