Members The Audio Cave Posted July 30, 2005 Members Share Posted July 30, 2005 Am I the only engineer here who is just plain tired of the posing, violence, irrelevance and "I'm the {censored}..." context of most "underground" gangster rap? Let me put this in context: 1. 99% of the rap sessions I did were people who used so much profanity there isn't a chance in hell any of their songs could ever make it on the radio. 2. 90%+ of the songs are generally talking about the same things... "Don't {censored} with me or my boys or we'll kill you." 3. 99% can't complete a song without telling of at least one sexual experience in a graphic way. I'm a black male who used to like rap but frankly I'm sick of it and refuse to record it anymore. I used to pull certain rappers to the side and give them a speech like this... "Dude, you have a real talent. You really need to seperate yourself from the crowd by rapping about something meaningful. Let go of the profanity until it's REQUIRED to make a statement. Be a poet, not a rapper. "Go home and write about something that happened in your life that made you angry or really really sad. Use REAL english to express your thoughts in a powerful way. I believe in you. You can do that." Nobody listened. I gave up. No more rap in my studio. Do (you) we have a responsibility as "transcribers" of this art form to try to drive it to a more artful position in the industry or do we just take the money and run? I could no longer continue to do that. Lawrence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members greendoor Posted July 30, 2005 Members Share Posted July 30, 2005 In my opinion, there is A Rap, B Rap and C Rap. Most of it is C Rap. Nobody is forcing you do do Rap. You could do country music instead (but then me and the boys would have to kill you). Just kidding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Audio Cave Posted July 30, 2005 Author Members Share Posted July 30, 2005 Originally posted by greendoor In my opinion, there is A Rap, B Rap and C Rap. Most of it is C Rap. Nobody is forcing you do do Rap. You could do country music instead (but then me and the boys would have to kill you). Just kidding But that's just the thing. The overwhelming majority of recording artists where I live are rappers. A small studio here is almost "forced" to do it to stay in business. How many days in a row can you listen to that type of caca? BTW... ALL my rap clients were "C" rap. Where are the "A" rappers? I could do country music I guess... but then I'd have to get therapy because I'd be so depressed I'd want to kill myself after every session. Just kidding. P.S. "Your wife is cheatin' on us..." Anyway, the best rapper I ever heard in my studio was a young guy with the most violent lyrics I've ever heard anywhere. In one of his songs he talked about having sex with the dead body of a rival he'd killed. His tone and his flow were fantastic. He could have been another Tupac if his raps were directed to social commentary or more relevant topics. I tried to steer him towards that. I called him back over once to create a rap bridge for an up-tempo love song and he nailed it (wrote the bridge and tracked it) in about 5 minutes, without any profanity. Very, very talented guy. Where is he now? Take a guess... shot dead at 23. Lawrence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ArrMatey Posted July 30, 2005 Members Share Posted July 30, 2005 The Problem lies in different facts: a) the tough talk is something that a lot of rappers are familiar with but don't know better. They spur out their rage with violent words, just angry b) the actual industry favours those C rappers. I remember listening to Xzibit's first album and his single, Papparazi was a pure beautiful piece of hip hop: intelligent, good beats and good production. It worked ok but didn't reach anything really amazing. Next album, Dre's on the decks and producing...lyrics are all about partying/pimpin' blah blah...he went from A to C! c) The fact that no one out of this region came out and made a name without profanity will keep this status quo going on. Right now, your only chance is to produce and when you make a better name, you can be picky about it and your inputs will come in better. Either that or start looking for certain artists that have a better "style" than you average C type rapper. How about you think about producing more r'n'b or modern soul music? Those styles work well and aren't all about profanity. In a way, you should just think that you are a producer of the music, not of the lyrics. If you drop down good music, the industry will recognize that...not the lyrics. As disarming that is, it's a sad truth. I hope you can work out a solution for your conflict...but often, we are bound to make music that we are not keen on at early stages. It's only later that we can make a choice of who we want to work with...and still.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TonyCrazyMan Posted July 30, 2005 Members Share Posted July 30, 2005 Thank you for writing such an honest post. I completely agree but want to expand it all, what if commercial music could be more about expressing kindness and love and less about frustration and hatred. The media industry today does whatever it takes to get a decent amount of money. I think the real issue starts there. From there the tree is divided into separate treenodes: - Sexuality- Voilence- Crime- Ego- Power- Insincereness The media industry constantly tries to figure out what type of content sells the most, that's the religion they follow. If a story is good but the media company doesn't think it will sell, they dump it for another story based on something of the above that they know will sell. That's why we end up with programs like The Paradise Hotel, The Bachelor etc. Today the most selling industry is sexuality in different forms. The reason why it works so well is because the human is a curious easy to deceive type of being. Much money can be made out of deceiving. I think this is the problem, which in turn creates new problems that feed the things I listed above. The result of this is a chain of bad things happening in the spiritual world. Instead of living the life to the fullest and being there for each other to fight the fears the world is filled with fear. For the money makers this fear is useful, but for people wanting to live a spiritually peaceful and happy life it can be devastating. What does this cause to the world of music? It causes a loss of beautiful art. Music becomes something that is not beautiful in any way, it is just a strong ugly expression. Such music doesn't make you feel alive, it makes you feel dead. Do you know what I think is the right approach for solving this problem? Making it all illegal! The world could be a much better place with laws based on love. In France you commit a crime if you don't help a person that you see is in trouble with some voilent gang. That's the right approach! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Audio Cave Posted July 30, 2005 Author Members Share Posted July 30, 2005 Hmmm... illegal? I wouldn't go that far. I believe in the right for a person to be an ignorant asshole if that is his choice. That's what America is all about and I buy into that ideal wholeheartedly. I'm a black man and I'll say without hesitation that the Klan, skinheads and the Nazi's have a constitutional right to hate me. Go for it. I actually encourage it so I know who they are. People died (including many black, asian, gay, jewish, spanish etc., etc, and all kinds of people) to defend that right and other freedoms. To take those rights away would make be dishonoring their many sacrifices. I have no problem with free speech. Anyway... I have moved more into R&B, Jazz and Gospel music. I make a lot less money in the studio but I'm a lot happier and it's much better for my overall engineering skills development, musical knowledge and peace of mind ... I sleep better knowing I'm not contributing to the "urban violence" problem anymore. Being a parent of a teenage son I was conflicted about that. Thanks man. Lawrence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members geek_usa Posted July 30, 2005 Members Share Posted July 30, 2005 AudioCave, I think it's great that you're trying to help these guys out. I believe that as a producer, it is our role to make the artist sound the best they can, whether it be cleaning up their lyrics, helping them to sing better, or giving input on songs they wrote and telling them which ones stay and which ones should go. As a regular engineer, the job is just to record and let things be things. I personally like to be pro-active with recording, so it's hard for me to sit back and let these guys rattle off f-bombs and death threats. Anyways, I think you should make it apparent that the next rapper you let into your studio, you will not be recording him if all he has to say is gibberish. Advertise it, even. ~Jared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members byunsenburner Posted July 30, 2005 Members Share Posted July 30, 2005 as an avid rap fan and at the same time a avid hater of "c-type" rap, i really appreciate ya thoughts audio cave. if only ur mentality could really spread, rap as an art form would be so much more credible in the eyes of more than the die-hard fans. i think part of the problem is that picking up rap is so much easier than picking up say guitar or singing (obviously getting good at it is just as hard as any other art form). this floods the rap world with so many beginners and people who don't know better than to pretty much copy exactly what they hear on the radio. i mean as opposed to rock fans or rnb fans, every rap fan also thinks hes a rapper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Funkwave Posted July 30, 2005 Members Share Posted July 30, 2005 Originally posted by byunsenburner to pretty much copy exactly what they hear on the radio. i mean as opposed to rock fans or rnb fans, every rap fan also thinks hes a rapper. You're right on the money with that one, But there is a sad truth to that. There ARE MILLIONS of people who can speak in time to a beat but it just seems that the ones that make it big, were pre chosen to be big by the record companies. There are miliions of "Aspiring Rappers" out there and I bet you 75 percent of them can do the same thing that a big record company guy can do. It's not like we're talking about the talent and precision of Bach Chamber music here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members byunsenburner Posted July 30, 2005 Members Share Posted July 30, 2005 yeah thats exactly the thing. with stuff like bach chamber music, there are very few people who can perform it well and very few people who can even bull{censored} it well enough to get by a classically-ignorant audience. rap on the other hand is so so easy to bull{censored} with. but hey, thats great for aspiring engineers -- so many clients to work with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members franknputer Posted July 30, 2005 Members Share Posted July 30, 2005 Originally posted by byunsenburner i think part of the problem is that picking up rap is so much easier than picking up say guitar or singing (obviously getting good at it is just as hard as any other art form). this floods the rap world with so many beginners and people who don't know better than to pretty much copy exactly what they hear on the radio. i mean as opposed to rock fans or rnb fans, every rap fan also thinks hes a rapper. Actually...if it were only talented musicians who bought guitars, GC would be out of business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members franknputer Posted July 30, 2005 Members Share Posted July 30, 2005 Back OT... Audio Cave, I applaud your choice. It's tough to live up to your convictions, in more ways than financially. As an engineer, it's been my job to mix whomever happened to be up there to the best of my ability. That's the job - if you accept the gig, you do it. If you don't like it - don't take it. I did the same - after doing my share of rap gigs, I stopped taking them, for pretty much the same reasons you gave. I'm a rap fan, too - but I see far too much C-rap these days, while too little of the really good stuff gets through. Right now, I'm struggling with my own musical identity - I'm not the same person I was 20 years ago, and I am trying to find how to evolve from the ideas I've held & grow them into something really beautiful. I guess I'm aspiring to the same standard I hear you speak of - the trick to me is how to do it while not discounting my past, or going all hippy-dippy with it. ...I did say back OT, didn't I? Anyway - good for you, Audio Cave. I think you're doing the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members geek_usa Posted July 31, 2005 Members Share Posted July 31, 2005 haha...just noticed something... C-Rap... remove the dash... C-Rap = Crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members greendoor Posted July 31, 2005 Members Share Posted July 31, 2005 I wasn't really trying to be subtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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