Members Tim Mayock Posted August 12, 2005 Members Share Posted August 12, 2005 I have a client who wants to play guitar on his CD. He is a friend and I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Will Chen Posted August 12, 2005 Members Share Posted August 12, 2005 In all walks of life, there are things you want to be attached to and things that you are attached to. If you're serious about turning you're studio into a business, this won't be the last time you face this situation. There's art, then there's bills. I would take the money. As they say in Hollywood, all exposure is good exposure. Then again, I'm nowhere near a level where I can afford to be picky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted August 12, 2005 Moderators Share Posted August 12, 2005 Do you play? If so, take a few passes at it when he's not around and see if he agrees to swap guitarists after a good listen. He's got to HEAR what you're talking about, not hear you talking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rog951 Posted August 12, 2005 Members Share Posted August 12, 2005 Bummer situation. Even though he's a friend, he's also a paying client and should have the final word on the direction the project takes. Has he heard any playback of his sloppy playing yet? That's usually enough to get 'em to come around. If you're just recording him, he might not be interested in your opinion. However, if you're being enlisted as producer as well, then you owe it to him to tell it like you think it is. If he doesn't take your advice, maybe he ends up with a crappy-sounding CD. If it ends up too embarassingly bad to put your name on it, you can always give it an "Alan Smithee" credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members geek_usa Posted August 12, 2005 Members Share Posted August 12, 2005 Originally posted by Tim Mayock I have a client who wants to play guitar on his CD. He is a friend and I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members geekgurl Posted August 12, 2005 Members Share Posted August 12, 2005 Originally posted by rog951 Even though he's a friend, he's also a paying client and should have the final word on the direction the project takes. Has he heard any playback of his sloppy playing yet? That's usually enough to get 'em to come around. If you're just recording him, he might not be interested in your opinion. However, if you're being enlisted as producer as well, then you owe it to him to tell it like you think it is. I'm with Rog on this one! If hearing his sloppy playback doesn't open his mind to change, you have a decision to make ... If you're going to be recording others for needed income, you have to get in the practice of making sure your financial needs are met. It doesn't hurt to do some pro bono and cut-rate stuff once in a while, but decide where you need to draw the line. It sounds to me like you are in a producing mode, but your client can't come through to realize your vision. You can't wait for this person to improve ... or can you? I know one producer who had a client come to him to record an alt-rock album and he had to tell her basically, "Take 2 months off, learn how to sing this style, then call me in January." She either did that, or found someone else, I guess. I never followed up on how that went. That may sound harsh, but really, I don't think it is. I think it is very honest and the best way to preempt ill feelings later down the line. The producer was saying, "I can invest my creativity in your project; I can develop a vision for it, and make it happen for you. But I need you to be able to do X." Much better than taking someone's money, and not being able to produce results. Then he'd just be wasting his time and her time and money. So if you're going to produce, that may be a solution. Give your pal specific things to work on, then say, "let's resume this in a couple of months, when you're stronger at X." OR, you can just be the engineer. Your job will be to set up the mics and press the red button. And make sure he only credits you as engineer, then. The performance can be lacking, but if it sounds good from an engineering standpoint, it will speak positively of your work ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members geekgurl Posted August 12, 2005 Members Share Posted August 12, 2005 Originally posted by geek_usa I told evan to brush up on his skills and come back some other time down the road, and I'd be happy to record him. But these instances always suck, man... I'm totally with you here. Hi fellow Geek! I really do believe this is the best thing to do in a situation where pressing the red button isn't enough. I know it sucks, but it would suck so much worse if you and your friend start resenting the situation and each other. I've seen it. I have a project now I am going to be working on ... I have the option of recording just bass on these songs, or bass and keys, adding arrangement, and producing. My friend/client is serious about her music, so that's good. But if I have production ideas that can't be realized with available talent, I can and will abandon those ideas ... and just play the best bass I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flaat Posted August 12, 2005 Members Share Posted August 12, 2005 Originally posted by geekgurl You can't wait for this person to improve ... or can you? I know one producer who had a client come to him to record an alt-rock album and he had to tell her basically, "Take 2 months off, learn how to sing this style, then call me in January." She either did that, or found someone else, I guess. I never followed up on how that went. Bang! Right on! This is what I would tell him. I guess it's always a good idea to tell friends and clients you'll act as a co-producer. Theres always the money vs. reputation thing tho.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MarkGifford-1 Posted August 13, 2005 Moderators Share Posted August 13, 2005 If you're going to open your studio up commercially, you're going to have to get used to recording some terrible acts... It's a fact of life, at the lower end of the music biz. About 1 in 10 projects I do stand a chance at making it onto my demo reel, yet virtually every client is extremely satisfied with the results they get. Yesterday afternoon I spent six hours polishing up a mix and cutting a few overdubs for a multi-platinum artist who is truly a household name, and then that evening I mixed 5 songs in 3 hours for a new band's club demo. Different levels of expectations, but both seem happy. If you can help a bunch of high school kids make a quickie demo for their friends and to sell at shows, and given them a great "first time in the studio" experience, that's all you need to do. It won't reflect poorly upon you OR your studio. Clients who are more talented will realize that it's not your engineering, and maybe even be amazed that you could get such good results... What you need to come to terms with is that you're doing the best you can, with the available materials. And that if you're using your studio as part of your income, everyone's money spends the same. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flaat Posted August 14, 2005 Members Share Posted August 14, 2005 Mark, you did add some more food for thought to this thread. At least my though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 An excellent thread. Good post Mark! I have some comments on the subject, and I will post them later tonight after my session. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tim Mayock Posted August 15, 2005 Author Members Share Posted August 15, 2005 Thanks very much for all of the suggestions. I know this is part of the business. It is very helpful to know how others deal with this challange. It seems to go in hand with a clients exectations of how long a recording project should take, another sensitive issue. Thanks again Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Joe Cole Posted August 15, 2005 Members Share Posted August 15, 2005 I have the same situation with my brother in law. He is a jazz guitarist who has amassed 30 years of great songs. The problem is that his vision exceeds his ability at this point. He is physically limited due to serious back and siatic nerve problems. His father was a musician and I said to my wife that I wanted to record him before he got too old to play as well. He died suddenly of pancreatic cancer, before we recorded a note. I vowed that I would record my brother in law before he passed on, so that we all could share his music. We set up tracking or mixing dates, then he has to cancel last minute because he is in so much pain, he cannot even drive over. We decided that maybe he should do rough tracking at his home so that I can get the song up and running back in my studio. I purchased Cakewalk Home Studio, an Edirol interface, and a POD for him to get going. I should him how to use acid loops to get his feel going. Then all he had to do is give me his solo guitar tracks. Two problems with that, #1 he can't get a good sound. #2- when he does give me the tracks... as the song progresses, he gets tired and losses time. I showed him how to comp.... but he just can't grasp it. So I get these guitar tracks that slowly wander off time until they are simply horrible at the end. I decided to do a few things, use Audio Warp in SX3, use lots of Rhodes (instead of guitar) to do the chord's, and record myself doing complementary parts. It has been 1 year now.... we have 1 "finished" song, and about 6 tracks in various stages of tracking. I know it is a worthy venture, but it is very frustrating at times. Audio Warp is helping. I have to get better at using it though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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