Members umkcprof Posted August 22, 2005 Members Share Posted August 22, 2005 And, more importantly, how does one achieve it? I don't know quite how to describe the effect, but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. To my untrained ears, it sounds almost like some sort of deep reverb (without a lot of high frequencies and without a long reverb time) has been strapped across the stereo buss. I honestly don't know how else to describe it. But, I tell you time much: When I hear songs on the radio I can almost feel the depth. I don't know what it is, but I know that that is the effect I'd like to get to. So, gentlemen, what is the technique/equipment that does this magical trick? And how much is it going to cost me to get there? :-) Sorry for the imprecise language, but I just don't know quite how to describe what I hear. But I sure know it when I hear it. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the russ Posted August 22, 2005 Members Share Posted August 22, 2005 compression, m/s processing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members geek_usa Posted August 22, 2005 Members Share Posted August 22, 2005 Ah, a person who knows what he likes and will do anything to get there! That's brilliant indeed. My guess is since radios use compressors quite a bit, maybe you're hearing the pumping and breathing of a compressor? They can give that glossy sheen to a track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kylen Posted August 22, 2005 Members Share Posted August 22, 2005 Does this happen right after you wash your car? Mine always runs faster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members umkcprof Posted August 22, 2005 Author Members Share Posted August 22, 2005 I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that it isn't compression. I've slammed compressors (Waves Renaissance), I've touched the tracks with feathers (Manley Variable Mu), and it still doesn't get that transparent depth that I hear. What it is, I have no idea, but I'm willing to do almost anything to get it. But it's pretty hard to buy if you don't know what it is you're shopping for! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members geek_usa Posted August 22, 2005 Members Share Posted August 22, 2005 Originally posted by umkcprof I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that it isn't compression. I've slammed compressors (Waves Renaissance), I've touched the tracks with feathers (Manley Variable Mu), and it still doesn't get that transparent depth that I hear.What it is, I have no idea, but I'm willing to do almost anything to get it.But it's pretty hard to buy if you don't know what it is you're shopping for!Steve Well, let's think about this for a second. Gloss is typically smooth, right, so you're describing a smooth, shiny surface. Certain microphones give out a smooth, glassy sound...most high-quality condensers will give you that, paired with a very nice transparent mic preamp (Grace Design). Maybe the signal chain going into your recording is the factor you want to observe, rather than what you can do with it afterwards? just a thought... ~Jared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MASSIVE Master Posted August 22, 2005 Members Share Posted August 22, 2005 I actually notice a lack of "glossy sheen" on the radio compared to a disc of the same recording... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the russ Posted August 22, 2005 Members Share Posted August 22, 2005 Originally posted by umkcprof I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that it isn't compression. I've slammed compressors (Waves Renaissance), I've touched the tracks with feathers (Manley Variable Mu), and it still doesn't get that transparent depth that I hear. What it is, I have no idea, but I'm willing to do almost anything to get it. But it's pretty hard to buy if you don't know what it is you're shopping for! Steve how much you wanna bet? i bet that "sheen" you're looking for is a combination of multiband compression and m/s processing. plus, there's got to be some distortion or signal loss unique to the physical act of transmitting sound via radio waves. the bottom line is - you want that sheen? get your song on the radio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Certain microphones give out a smooth, glassy sound...most high-quality condensers will give you that, paired with a very nice transparent mic preamp (Grace Design). Maybe the signal chain going into your recording is the factor you want to observe, rather than what you can do with it afterwards? just a thought... ~Jared You're talking to a man who has, in the past few months, purchased a Soundelux iFET7, Manley Reference Gold and a pair of Schoeps sm di. condensers. Not to mention an Avalon AD2055, a couple of Distressors, a UA 6176, a Lucid AD9624 converter and a Manley Vari-Mu to his setup. Oh, and IIRC, he's also got a couple of Grace 101's too. I really don't think that the lack of gear is the issue. Besides, if Steve keeps going like this, there's not going to be any good gear deals left for ME! Steve, can you give us some specific song examples? And do you hear the same sound on both CD playbacks and radio broadcasts of the same songs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kylen Posted August 22, 2005 Members Share Posted August 22, 2005 Here's a couple of things to consider if you want that sound, broadcast technique & broadcast equipment: http://www.euphonicmasters.com/orban_article.php http://www.261.gr/vintage.html http://www.261.gr/proradio.html I think what you may be liking is a healty dose of upward compression - not always transparent but can be interesting just the same. Stations tune these multiband compressors & limiters anc companders to totally rebalance a mix in some cases. Like if a 'now' radio station goes to the back of the rack and pulls out something mastered in the 60's you think - I never heard that in there before - probably not as the broadcast processors have rebalanced it for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members geek_usa Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe You're talking to a man who has, in the past few months, purchased a Soundelux iFET7, Manley Reference Gold and a pair of Schoeps sm di. condensers. Not to mention an Avalon AD2055, a couple of Distressors, a UA 6176, a Lucid AD9624 converter and a Manley Vari-Mu to his setup. Oh, and IIRC, he's also got a couple of Grace 101's too. I really don't think that the lack of gear is the issue. Besides, if Steve keeps going like this, there's not going to be any good gear deals left for ME! I had no idea. I really don't know this man. It was just a suggestion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MarkGifford-1 Posted August 23, 2005 Moderators Share Posted August 23, 2005 I would have to say it comes from an obsessive attention to detail, at every step of the production process. From writing, to arranging, to the players, to the instruments, to the performance, to the studio, to the mic selection and placement, to the mixing and finally, the mastering. People that can write, produce and get a hit song on the radio know things about making records that we mortals don't. My all-time fave quote, from a mastering roundtable I read, was the reply when asked "If there was one piece of advice you could give home studio recordists to help out their end results, what would it be?" The answer? "Don't record {censored}ty songs." And there you have it... MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members valkyriesound Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 I don't know quite what you are trying to discribe..... but I'm REALLY dissapointed that everyone here is jumping to some sort of processing! Knobs and gear will not give you everything you want!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you start listening to good professional recordings there IS A SENSE OF DEPTH! Too many people try to process audio to this... this is a matter of understanding good recording and mixing practice... good mic placement and a true understanding of stereo. There is more than Left and Right in stereo... there's up and down and far and near... you just need to learn to record and mix that way.... You will never get it from adding yet another compressor! Thank you... rant over....Ms. Valky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kylen Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 True Valky - I just thought he meant the sound of the CD in the home stereo as opposed to the sound of the same CD played over the radio by a DJ - now I guess I really don't know what he meant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Originally posted by geek_usa I had no idea. I really don't know this man. It was just a suggestion... It's all good! - I know you didn't. But I just thought I'd let everyone know he's got a pretty dang good selection of gear to work with. I think one of the reasons that Steve stated for getting the cool toys was so that he "wouldn't be able to blame the gear", or words to that effect. While I agree with several of the comments that have been made in this thread, the truth of the matter is that we're ALL just guessing - and until we can get a better definition (or at least a fuller description and examples) of exactly what "glossy sheen" means to Steve, we'll still be guessing. Might he be hearing mastering compression? A great song and outstanding performances? Radio limiting and compression? A stellar recording that was carefully and meticulously crafted each and every step of the way, with excellent depth of field and stereo imaging? Or a combination of "all of the above"? Yup... Again, specific examples of the tunes you're talking about, and also an answer to the "is it different sounding on the radio than on CD, and which has more of the 'sheen' you're talking about?" question will help us narrow it down - or maybe even nail it for you Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 My all-time fave quote, from a mastering roundtable I read, was the reply when asked "If there was one piece of advice you could give home studio recordists to help out their end results, what would it be?" The answer? "Don't record {censored}ty songs." Followed closely by "Don't record crappy musicians". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sleepin' Deeper Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 Originally posted by valkyriesound good mic placement and a true understanding of stereo. There is more than Left and Right in stereo... there's up and down and far and near... you just need to learn to record and mix that way.... I don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Will Chen Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 Originally posted by Sleepin' Deeper I don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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