When you feel like giving up...

[Alanfc]

Jared-

I'm old enough to be your dad but I go through this same thing and get emotional too...

I'm banking on just my ears and eventually more time/experience.( I have little now). I got to a point where I just couldn't revise stuff anymore and had to consider it finished after 6 rounds of revisions on our songs. Luckily we got the packaged CD's on Monday so I considered that to be my sign to go and delete the stuff. (with 2 other backups elsewhere of course;) ).

I do it in my apartment bedroom and down here anytime soon there's no buying a home with a music room and good mixing space.

 

As long as the average listener, like my co-workers or friends tell me it doesn't sound like total amateur crap thats all I can hope for. So far the reaction has been positive. Interestingly enough the band thought it was fine after revision 2. I had to stop at revision 6. I think you're an artist first and an engineer second yes? Thats how it is for me too. As long as my band wants to do everything for free, done by me, the best I can do is make it respectable to =me= and move on. I'm rambling here but hopefully you know what I mean...

 

OK the experienced guys here may smack me for suggesting this, but, I found that a multiband compressor first in the chain on the full stereo mix (homebrew mastering), at a very small ratio made a world of difference on my stuff. Until I can get it well balanced myself (to my satisfaction) I will do this on the next CD too if necessary. I'm not going for multiplatinum world domination here

Take a rest for a couple days and then throw on one of your tunes in the car and don't listen too closely- I mean pretend you're an average person/listener, if you heard the tune on the radio, would it be =that= bad?

I think you should continue to be hard on yourself of course in order to improve, but with a level head;)

[UstadKhanAli]

I can't give it a fair listen right now, but I heard it on my little tiny computer speakers, and the mixes seem to be well-balanced, enough so that I just am not sure why you are being hard on yourself. Well, actually, I think I might know why, given that you're depressed about other things...anyway, the mixes sound good on little tiny speakers. I can't tell what's going on in the bottom end, obviously...

[fuzzball]

I can't listen to it yet, I still have crappy dial up, I am working on getting DSL (I am price searching right now). I hope to have DSL in a month.

[Kid Klash]

Hey geek_usa,

 

Like most everyone here has written, we all feel that way from time to time, regardless of whether we've been at it 4 months or 40 years! Take a big, deep breath, walk around the block, get a good night's sleep, and come back to it with fresh ears. Take some time off from the mixing/mastering process too if you want or need it. It sounds kind of schmaltzy, but it's true : things ALWAYS seem the darkest before dawn. Don't give up.

[squealie]

Boy, I feel this thread.

 

I'm leaning on a deadline with my current project now. And whenever I bring up a mix, all I hear are mistakes.

 

I've lost all perspective.

[The Funk]

I'll take a listen to your mixes when I get home. My guess is your just being hard on yourself. But I'll check it and see if I have any comments when I get home.

 

 

When in doubt, step back. Put it away for a while. Its very much possible to over-mix. You can take all the life out that way. How many current albums are protooled to death? You don't notice until you hear the vitality of an older band going live to tape. If you keep at it, you can go well past the point where the mix is the best it can be.

 

Also, when in doubt, simplify. As we are mixing a lot of times we add more and more effects and tracks and we create mud. If it doesn't need it, take it out. Your stuff will be better for it.

 

Good luck.

[The Funk]

I don't think your mixes were all that bad. I think you guitar tones (especially the ascending lines on the heavier track (which I liked better) sounded pretty good.

 

I think a lot of people have tendency to suck out the lower mids either by the way they mic, or the way they mix, in order to get that "studio clean" sound. Don't do that. It makes things thin. A boost of a couple of decibles around 500 k on a few choice tracks would work wonders. Mids are your friend.

 

With the bass...think bulbous. It will fill the space better.

 

Drums could be rebalanced slightly to gel a bit better. Solo the drum mix and see how they are fitting. It should sound natural.

 

You are not all that far off at all. A couple db here and there. Definitely don't get down on yourself. This is not bad at all.

[Eric Dahlberg]

It's a good song & most of the instruments are placed pretty well. Here's what you need to fix right away:

 

1. High-pass the kick. The reason you're not getting any volume out of the mix is because the kick's sub frequencies are eating it all up.

 

2. Throw your Audio Buddy in the trash & get a Rane MS 1b. The Audio Buddy may not be the only cause for all the noise in the mix but it's definitely going to keep you from ever getting an enjoyable mix. The MS 1b costs $150 & has the same noise specs as the Grace 101.

 

3. Use a de-esser on the vocals & teach your vocalists proper mic technique. Sorry if this sounds harsh but if you can't hear that sibilance - some of the worst I've heard in years - then you either need new monitors or there may be something wrong with your ears. Again, I'm not trying to sound harsh here, you really do need to have your ears checked & cleaned if you have good monitors & can't hear that sibilance.

 

4. Find out what's causing that high frequency garbage & get rid of it. It's so bad, it almost sounds like a feedback loop. A BBE might cause something like that (trash it even if it isn't the cause). Cheap Chinese condensers have tons of annoying top-end, too, maybe that's the culprit. The good news here is those kinds of mics can sound decent when you shelve off the high-end. The guitars & vocals both need it.

 

There's no one right way to mix. The White Stripes, Green Day, & The Foo Fighters all have similar sounds but their respective latest albums sound completely different from one another. However, you can't ever let such glaring problems such as these get by, no matter what.

 

btw, points 1, 3, & 4 could have been dealt with in the mastering process. That's not to say that's the proper place to deal with those kinds of problems but at least they can still be handled to some degree at that stage (especially the kick).

[geek_usa]

Thanks for the comments. Here's the deal.

 

With the vocals I used an SM57 because it was all i have. Simblance is when you get too close, right? I thought that was proximity effect. Anyways...

 

It sounds harsh because I added a high pass over the entire mix which i removed later upon a friend's suggestion. Instead now I ran it through a demo version of the PSP vintage warmer, and didn't boost the highs. It doesn't sound as sparkly clean but definately more pleasing to the ears.

 

The drums were actually from a drum machine... so I can't really high pass the kick or anything like that.

 

 

I actually did boost the bass a little to fit the songs. I know I'll never get like the pros with this set up (audio buddy and stock sound card) but I try my best. It's all my material by the way.

 

 

If you want me to post the updated mixes i will.

 

thanks!

[Eric Dahlberg]

Sibilance & proximity effect are completely different. Read this:

 

http://emusician.com/mag/emusic_silencing_sibilance/

 

This mix was not high passed. There's no way a proper high pass would have let that kick through. You should probably avoid Vintage Warmer (aka distortion box) for now, it can sound bad even in the hands of trained professionals. I wouldn't be surprised if that high frequency crap was caused by Vintage Warmer.

 

It doesn't matter where the drums are from. You high pass the kick while mixing, not on the machine itself. Work it out, this is basic stuff you need to know how to do.

 

Please don't post anything until you've fixed the aforementioned issues. The sibilance alone makes the mix unlistenable a second time.

[geek_usa]

 

Originally posted by Eric Dahlberg Please don't post anything until you've fixed the aforementioned issues. The sibilance alone makes the mix unlistenable a second time.

 

 

 

Don't post anything? Wow I think we've found ourselves one of the most selfish, arrogant assholes this board has to offer.

 

I'm a {censored}ing novice. Let's hear what you have to offer, huh?

 

 

Oh yeah, and I'll take your tips. Maybe.

[Kid Klash]

Hey geekster,

 

You're definately on the right track. And remember : illegitimi noncarborundum.

 

Have a great weekend.

[geek_usa]

Yeah well I think I'm finished anyways.

 

Everything I {censored}ing do turns to dust and doesn't matter. If I can't work a damn day job correctly, maybe I can do something I enjoy, like recording, right?

 

WRONG.

 

 

See you all in the next life, I guess.

[EugeneBr]

I always feel amazed at what a little rest can do to big problems.

[Eric Dahlberg]

 

Originally posted by geek_usa Oh yeah, and I'll take your tips. Maybe.

 

 

I'm sorry to hear that. The remedies I've prescribed will take you all of 10 minutes to perform (well, aside from the noise, you'll probably have to live with that for now).

[geek_usa]

It's ironic how a thread starting as a "giving up thread" turns into a thread of warm gestures and positive affirmation.

 

Then this asshole walks in and ruins the whole thing. Terrific.

 

 

 

I hope you have bad luck the rest of your recording career, Eric. You deserve it.

 

 

By the way, I'm still waiting to hear your piss-ass "too good to be true" recordings, Eric. Come on, enlighten me. I'm sure whatever YOU can do can blow everybody else's stuff out of the water!

 

Show your face and maybe you'll earn some respect at MY expense. Sound like a deal?

 

 

{censored}er.

[TonyCrazyMan]

geek_usa, I can tell you are pissed off now and I know that's not so fun... Recently I've felt just like you in that I've just wanted to give up because I've not been able to get anything work the way I've want it to. I was really close to buying a new converter but I decided I would just leave it until I'm ready for it. During that period I've not been recording much, I've been thinking about it, reading information and tried to find the inspiration I need. I've started to critizise my knowledge to find out if there is anything I've been totally missing when it comes to recording. During this period I've listened to some old music and kind of got some inspiration from the simple things... I recently bought the cd Hilary James and Bob James - Flesh & Blood and I'm waiting for it to arrive. I needed some old stuff to inspire me I guess... Now at the same time I have been kind of getting new perspectives on how good recordings are made. I've realised I'm using digital effects that are really ruining the sound quality, I'll stop with that. I really got the sense of the digital effect quality recently when I tried an EQ effect on Win Amp. By using that effect I instantly knew how much a digital effect really can destroy a recording. Secondly I have been, at least to some extent, overrating the role of converters of the overall sound quality, it seems like the more I clean up that signal path the more I realise that the converter is quite transparent in comparison. But I think the converter is still a really important part and I'm still not sure about the quality of the Fireface, so I might still buy a new converter, but first I want to know if the converter overemphasize some frequency ranges and in that way make it more plastic than it sounds analog in the room... In that case I could filter out much of this plastic touch by EQing on the mixer and the rest in the DAW. Lately I've got a feeling though that it's really my sound source that cause the kind of sound I get so I think I might be using the wrong approach on selecting the sound sources. I would really want to try recording with a good Roland synth now instead of everything I've been using before, it seems like the bottom end is much cleaner on a Roland so I would get much softer and cleaner bass lines from using a good Roland synth which would dramatically improve the base foundation of my recordings and breath important feelings into the mixes. So I am more questioning the quality of my sound sources rather than my recording equipment in order to improve the result from here.

 

Maybe you just need to go through similar throughts and try to find new inspiration from old music? Just try to find something in your recording environment that sucks out the inspiration. Maybe it's in the sound source, maybe it's in the recording process, maybe it's in the converter, maybe it's in the music you record...

Maybe it would help if you would take a listen to "Storm Warning" by Hilary James... (and pay attention to what simple stuff can do to the feelings of a recording)

[HulkBlood01]

edit: i figure the end of my post was as important (or more) than all this, so here it is again...at the top. If you ever wanna talk recording/music/anything, need a second pair of ears for a mix, or want opinions on a new mix from a a fellow amateur, feel free to IM me (aim) @ HulkBlood01. If you have msn thats cool, PM me and I can send you my email addy.

 

 

 

hey geek...without reading every single post, I'd like to chime in..

 

Yanno I was feeling the same way for a LONG time. I hadn't recorded anything in at least a month, probably closer to twice that. I was kinda down and out on the whole recording thing and hadn't liked the results I'd gotten so far. I HAD been getting better, but the two things I hated the most about my mixes is that they were mudballs and always too quiet. It's been said that 'thats what volume knobs are for', but for some reason we think of 'inferior' when we hear a amateur song thats not loud enough.

 

Hey, you got something on me. I don't know and/or don't have the capability to master! So there. I DEFINITELY hear you on the 'car test' and other cd players...I used to get a big suprise from my mixes. I mean I thought they were absolutely terrible.

 

As far as expectations of others...screw worrying about that! Something I've picked up here is that engineers on any level will almost never be what they think is 'done' with a mix, yet the band will absolutely love it. So it doesn't matter what others think, if a band you're recording loves the final product, great. Are you a multi-million dollar studio? No! Don't worry about being as good as them. Be the best that YOU can be with what you have...plain and simple.

 

Do you think we'd get better if we shat gold every time we touched a mix? If you can pinpoint something about this mix you don't like or absolutely hate, make a mental note and make it a priority to find out why it happened and how to fix it. Take LOTS of time, spend days mixing. You'll probably get new ideas day to day. The key for us amateurs is to progressively get better. Sure there are going to be times we take a step back, but you know what? We realize our mistake, and move on to the next project. That's all you can do.

 

Maybe it would help you (or maybe you already use it), but what really helped me and my mixing was a spectrum analyzer. It's a great tool, I can't state that enough. With it I looked at commerical CDs, and noticed how relatively flat they were across the board -- that is how evenly each frequency was accounted for. My mixes had a huge 'bump' around 80-200Hz (there's that mud pile i was talking about ). Anyhow...that's really helped me. That and proper EQ.

 

Well, I'm getting a little long-winded, so I better wrap this up. I felt as a fellow amateur recorder I could lend a good word or two.

 

Oh -- and be sure to get some decent sleep. 12-1am makes a huge difference from 2-4am. With a good nights rest you'll have more 'mental' energy to record.

 

If you ever need a second pair of ears on a mix, or just wanna talk or something, you can reach me on AIM if you have it. Hulkblood01. I have msn as well, ask for my email if you want and I can PM it to you.

 

Take care man, and get some rest..

[the russ]

Originally posted by geek_usa It's ironic how a thread starting as a "giving up thread" turns into a thread of warm gestures and positive affirmation. Then this asshole walks in and ruins the whole thing. Terrific. I hope you have bad luck the rest of your recording career, Eric. You deserve it. By the way, I'm still waiting to hear your piss-ass "too good to be true" recordings, Eric. Come on, enlighten me. I'm sure whatever YOU can do can blow everybody else's stuff out of the water! Show your face and maybe you'll earn some respect at MY expense. Sound like a deal? {censored}er.

 

i couldn't listen to the mix, the download had expired, but, taking for granted the citicisms of your mix:

 

do you want warm, positive gestures, or do you want to fix your problems?

 

you're getting a little defensive. if the mix has glaring problems, those must be fixed before the overall picture can be addressed. fix the sibilance, use a de-esser or narrow, deep cuts on an EQ plugin. sweep until you've found the band that takes care of 'em.

 

as for the muddy kick, even if your drums are a premixed stereo track, you can use an EQ to cut out the offending low-end. nothing else in a drum kit needs to be competing with the kick at low frequencies. do some EQ surgery until you've got the kick tamed

 

and don't mix with the Vintage Warmer on the stereo bus. {censored} the vintage warmer. while we're at it, for your purposes, {censored} everything except basic EQ, compression, and reverb. that should be all you need to get a good mix, but, you have to learn how to use them or else no fancy "vintage" plugin will ever fix your problems.

 

once you've got that taken care of, everyone will be in a much better position to give you useful advice.

[TonyCrazyMan]

HulkBlood01,

 

What spectrum analyzer do you use?

[geek_usa]

Thanks for your comments Tony and Hulk...

 

 

The thing is, it's not just the comments. I'm closer to the edge than I thought. I've had some serious mental/emotional problems the past year and they've only gotten worse. Last night I tried slitting my wrists but I hate sharp blades so I couldn't do it. Everything seems to be going down the drain lately and music is the only thing that I have left. When someone criticizes the only thing I have left and tries to steal it away from me...what else do I have? The first thought that comes to mind is.. "might as well kill myself".

 

Last night at my job, they were telling me I was moving too slow. Every job I've been at says I move too slow. But I can't help it... I can't be as fast as other people. I'm not like that. I got yelled at and shouted and bickered at last night...which made matters worse. I came home feeling rotten and I got another smart ass reply from Eric, and I just blew up. I couldn't take it anymore. Maybe I don't want criticism. At least not the "I'm better than you so you better do this" standpoint of criticism. I realize I'm not that great audiophonically speaking but I really do try.

 

This is probably around the third or fourth time I seriously thought about killing myself. It's a constant thought that burdens me and it happens quite often, but only happened a few times seriously where I actually took action for it. I guess it doesn't help matters any that all of my friends are off to college and even then we don't share many interests... my mom is a closed door about my issues; my dad lives all the way across the state; and nobody seems to understand me. I'm an island, and boy is it a lonely island.

 

Thanks again anyways though!

 

 

~Jared

[Alanfc]

Jared Jared Jared,

turn off the computer now.

 

Then go check your Walmart benefits paperwork and make use of any mental health benefit they have. Like now Jared.

 

or call right now here: http://suicidehotlines.com/

I have to leave for the rest of the day now I can't follow this.

I don't mean to be dramatic but Jared, do something =now=.

[HulkBlood01]

 

Originally posted by Alanfc Jared Jared Jared, turn off the computer now. Then go check your Walmart benefits paperwork and make use of any mental health benefit they have. Like now Jared. or call right now here: http://suicidehotlines.com/ I have to leave for the rest of the day now I can't follow this. I don't mean to be dramatic but Jared, do something =now=.

 

 

 

Yeah, its definitely more serious than not being happy with recordings.

 

I don't know about wally-mart, but at sams club I believe you can take a leave on the grounds of mental health...

 

or visit that website man...actually DEFINITELY visit that website.

[Eric Dahlberg]

 

Originally posted by geek_usa Then this asshole walks in and ruins the whole thing. Terrific.

 

 

Again, I'm sorry to hear you feel that way. I didn't come here to make any enemies & I'm perfectly fine with you not taking any of my advice, so let's just pretend I was never on this thread. If nobody else finds the tips I gave you to be helpful, I'll be happy to delete those posts.

[TonyCrazyMan]

Jared,

 

When I read your posts it was the first time for a long time when a post included characteristics of a human being. Something I think is a little scary is when I'm on the web and there seems to be no real feelings inside any posts, it's like forums are filled with fake cold people and it's really hard to feel anything or become attached to any person when it's like that. The worst thing I know is when there is a thread totally emotionless and all of a sudden someone starts with some personal attacks or just really proud ego comments. I think there are lots of that kind of threads out there...

 

I can understand your feelings and your situation and I know it's not very fun going through what you are going through, I've been there many times. First off I would recommend you to start taking B vitamines with inositol. They will automatically take away those worst depression feelings which will aid in not losing all energy in the body. It sounds like you are so depressed that you don't have much energy, so this will give you the energy which is important for moving on and gradually building up the emotional defence mechanism. Use 50mg B-vitamine complex and stay out in the sun a lot. Also it's important to avoid sugar and fat because they tend to create blue funks and blue funks are really very bad...

 

When it comes to the root problem of your situation I can only say that life is hard and it's really not very beautiful all the time and this is something that many are going through... But the world is not only filled with darkness. God has filled this world with good people too. These persons will and are entering your life and if you feel they aren't there I think the best is to ask God to fill your life with people leading you on the right track. I've come to notice that these persons tend to be of the religious kind, so that might aid you in noticing who are leaders and who aren't. You just have to find this path now, I'm sure you've gone through some really hard times that have moved you where you are, but with God and knowledge you can find the right path. So I would like you to stop for a while and pray to God about how you feel and that you want your life to become easier. Secondly I want you to start paying attention to your actions a little more because it will help you avoiding impulsive decisions that now only makes everything harder. For instance taking drugs, alcohol, eating fast food etc are only a few examples of such things you can avoid by avoiding impulsive decisions, it will save you money, it will make you feel better and make your situation easier. When these habits grow things become easier and you can move forward. So start acting out of knowledge rather than out of impulsiveness because when such a habit grows you get more control over your situation and you can more easily set the direction you want. Soon you will get a good job, get the money you need and the opportunities you need in order to sort things out and fulfill your dreams. Gradually things will become more fun too. Hopefully there will come good people along the way and I think it will if you turn to God and pray.

 

I think you are a cool person and I'm sure you are full of talent and a nice guy to be friends with. Now just take one day at a time. I'm sure you have a picture of yourself deep inside that tells you what you want to be like and what you want to happen in life. Don't let the external world fool yourself into thinking that's not possible. There will only be 1 version of you with the properties you have, that is very unique and worth a lot! You are a person with positive and negative sides, a beautiful creation that nobody wants go to waste. So please, just hang on there and stay alive, because you are so important and needed! God loves you very much and he has made a plan about your life. No matter what the situation is like God is by your side and he can heal everything. You are part of someone else's life too and a very important link in the way life of other persons become, I don't think these persons would be glad to know that you would be gone out of this world unexpected. So I really think staying alive is a responsibility for the good and I think that's a very good thing to do and a good thing for you!

 

BTW, tonight I discovered that EQ is really a very important effect for getting the sound you want. I was able to dial in a Vince Gill clean strat guitar tone today only with the help of an EQ... Maybe you should check it out some... I used the Waves PAZ analyzer and in that way know the characteristics of the sound, what I can cutoff and so on. By using the EQ it seems like I can dial in completely new tones, so this is a very new and exciting world for me right now, something I've completely underestimated before!

 

Take care my friend!