Jump to content

Gibson Explorer History


NashSG

Recommended Posts

  • Members

I went looking out on the net for a site on the history of the Gibson Explorer and could not find one. I've found some cool fan sites on the SG, Firebird, Flying V and even a good site on Hamer that covers the background of the Standard (Explorer) copy, but none on the Gibson original.

 

I found it suprising that no one had created a site on the Explorer, considering it seems to be a more popular instrument than the Firebird over the years.

 

One of the things I was curious about was what the original 50s Explorers looked like, as I have seen reissues but never one of the few made way back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 58
  • Created
  • Last Reply
  • Members

I have a few "guitar" books, but they don't give a lot of detail about the Explorer.

 

But the first year was 1958. Both the Explorer and the Flying V were built then with "modern" styling.

 

Streamlining and jet-age styling was very popular on everything back then from cars to toasters.

 

I believe the orginals were made exclusively with Korina (an African wood that is lighter but similar to mahogany). If this is not 100% correct, I know that it was true for some of the original models.

 

There were very very few of the originals made, so either the V or the Ex are worth many thousands now if you can even find one.

 

I recently bought the Ephiphone '58 Explorer since I was a little bit interested in this guitar myself. I didn't want a modern metal version of the guitar, but one with more of a vintage PAF tone and with the lighter more resonant qualities of korina wood. (I bought a '76 Gibby version for my son, and although it's a well made ax, the ceramic pups are best for distortion/crunchy tones (not my cup of wiskey).

 

Although the Epi's use about 3 pieces of korina with a solid veneer, it is still a very resonant guitar body.

 

I've had the guitar now for about 10 days and have had a couple hours or so to play it.

 

It's a bit neck heavy, but I just received a thick tweed and brown leather DiMarzio strap that keeps it from slipping.

 

Although the ads say the korina creates a brighter tone, what I've noticed is that the guitar actually has some semi-hollow sound quality to it. Whereas a Satriani may create "violin tones" this guitar seems to create "viola" tones, i.e a bit deeper.

 

For $449 plus $63 for the case from Music 123, I had to check one out.

 

I'm still evaluating this guitar, it usually takes me months to years to really decide (too many axes in the stable), but so far I don't regret adding this guitar to the group.

 

I may eventually upgrade the pups and hardware, but I may also just leave it as it. I'm just not sure yet.

 

But anyway, my point is that I wanted to check out the vintage intent of an explorer without a second mortgage on the house, so this Epi is part of my research on the subject.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Originally posted by timmy210

The epi korina explorers arent made out of korina, they have a korina veneer and alder body.

 

 

Everything that I have read including all the reviews on HC's user reviews, as well as all the online stores and the Epiphone website say Korina. Where do you get your information?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I've played an original 1958 Explorer. It sucked ass. Apparently they went basically unused until the 70s because they were made so poorly. Seriously, this 1958 one was about 12-13 pounds, had no sustain, had a {censored}ed up neck, and they were selling it for tens of thousands.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Originally posted by cloudnine

I've played an original 1958 Explorer. It sucked ass. Apparently they went basically unused until the 70s because they were made so poorly. Seriously, this 1958 one was about 12-13 pounds, had no sustain, had a {censored}ed up neck, and they were selling it for tens of thousands.

 

 

Now come on now!

 

"Sucked ass" ??

 

They should have less sustain than an LP since they don't have the hard maple cap, and the body wood was more resonant thus more vibration absorbing than mahogany, but "sucked ass".

 

Albert King made beautiful blues music with the "V" version and I doubt the Explorer would be much different.

 

I think it was their odd and somewhat awkward shape that kept them from really catching on.

 

As my book "The Ulitmate Guitar Book" says, "Gibson president Ted McCarty came up with the new shapes by using "modern" straight lines rather than "traditional" curves - a very radical move for the time. So radical, in fact, that the response from both retailers and players was negative. Despite Gibson's high hopes, none of these unusual guitars sold well and production stopped within two years. Many years later these rare guitars became very desirable, and the renewed interest led to other makers adopting the Flyuing V and Explorer styling"

 

It aslo says that only 100 of the original V were ever made.

 

But no, I wouldn't cough up the $40,000 it would cost to experience that first model.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Originally posted by timmy210

Gas Man, someone on either this forum or the epiphone forum took the finish off his 59 and it was alder with a veneer.

 

 

I remember seeing a post like that, but that doesn't mean squat. The post I remember reading was someone in a user review seeing the blonder look of the pieces inside a pickup cavity and jumping to this conclusion.

 

By looking at my Epi, I'm pretty sure that what is supposed to be thought of as a natural korina finish does instead have some yellow tint added. So if you were to look at the internal blocks of wood, this pigment would be missing.

 

But if it were an alder body with a korina veneer, I would believe that Epiphone would advertise it as "alder body with korina cap".

 

I'm not saying the Epi is first rate, as it is, a multi-piece body with a veneer is already an economy build, but there wouldn't be a good reason to use alder internal wood and then still promote it as "korina".

 

This is not Epi's first venture into Korina guitars. A friend of mine has a Korina SG and it also has a definite tonal difference from most SG's. It's has more "strat-like" overtones in it from the brighter more resonant wood.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

No, the guy was refinishing the guitar and once he stripped the paint it was indeed a couple of pieces of alder. Also, its not a korina cap but a veneer, meaning its around 1/16 thick. Also Epiphone uses alder in their les pauls, so who's to say they wont use them for their explorers too? Also the good reason to use alder instead of korina is because alder is much cheaper.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Originally posted by timmy210

No, the guy was refinishing the guitar and once he stripped the paint it was indeed a couple of pieces of alder. Also, its not a korina cap but a veneer, meaning its around 1/16 thick. Also Epiphone uses alder in their les pauls, so who's to say they wont use them for their explorers too?

 

I know it's not a cap, but a veneer. What I was saying is that there is nothing wrong with alder. It's one of the best tone woods going. So if it was indeed alder and not a korina body, then they would have to advertise it as such. Otherwise they'd be breaking a {censored} load of commercial laws regarding truth in advertising. So I'm just saying that this tale you are referring to is not enough to make an argument. There's no way you'd see the alder underneath the veneer just by stripping the finish. His view was inside the pickup cavity where the lack of stain made it look like it could have been a different species.

 

I can see by the way why someone would strip the finish. One thing I was a little disappointed about with this guitar is that the polyurethane finish is a bit on the thicker side. For a "vintage" style guitar it should have been kept thin, or better yet a nitro finish.

 

But the veneer that they used was not to cover up a different species of wood, they used the veneer to make the guitar appear as if it were carved out of a single block of korina rather than multiple smaller pieces of korina glued together.

 

I did a lot of reading on this ax before I bought it my man!!:mad::D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Well I'm sorry But he posted pics of it, I'll search for them but the body was alder not korina. They could have gotten away with having alder by having a korina veneer on it. Who knows, maybe with the guy that stripped the ax got the only one made out of alder. All I know is that this particular "korina" explorer was made out of alder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Originally posted by timmy210

Well I'm sorry But he posted pics of it, I'll search for them but the body was alder not korina. They could have gotten away with having alder by having a korina veneer on it. Who knows, maybe with the guy that stripped the ax got the only one made out of alder. All I know is that this particular "korina" explorer was made out of alder.

 

 

Yeah, like I said, I'm pretty sure that I saw the post too, but what I'm suggesting is the guy was probably an idiot.

 

He may not have understood what he was looking at and that the veneer was tinted and the inner blocks were not. Unless he was an expert woodsmith, the sides of cut lumber can look much different than sand finished tinted and coated woods of the same species.

 

I worked with mahogany in my youth, and I've never seen a mahogany guitar that matched the same tint as the boards of mahogany that I used in shop class.

 

PS What happened to NashSG?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Originally posted by cloudnine

I've played an original 1958 Explorer. It sucked ass. Apparently they went basically unused until the 70s because they were made so poorly. Seriously, this 1958 one was about 12-13 pounds, had no sustain, had a {censored}ed up neck, and they were selling it for tens of thousands.

 

 

I've played a couple of them side by side (one with a forked headstock) along with a Max replica, all owned by some BIG NAME GUITAR GUY. Other than cool factor, I didn't see any big deal. They played and sounded as good as any two thousand dollar guitar, only they were priced 20+ times that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Originally posted by TattooedCarrot


Nitro is more expensive and time consuming, kinda defeats the purpose of a cheap knock-off. If you want true vintage vibe, you'll need to shell out $5k for the 58 historic RI V. Or better yet, $2k for a Hamer Korina Vector.

 

Yeah, I know it's more expensive since there's a lot of hand rubbing between coats. I didn't mean I expected that in the Epi, I just meant that a cheap version of a nitro finish, or even a thinner poly layer would have been a better idea.

 

But no, I wouldn't want to go that deep with an explorer. I just wanted a taste of the lighter body (and it is considerably lighter than my son's mahogany Gibson '76 Explorer) with more vintage style PAF pups. I may eventually upgrade to USA PAFs (Burstbuckers, 57's or some SD or DiMarzio knockoffs), but for now it's a decent sounding guitar.

 

It's kind of trippy. The first riff I played on that guitar was "Johnny Be Good" and damned if it doesn't have some semihollow body tones to its sound. Cubic inch to cubic inch, this thing be lighter than my alder strats!;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

http://www.epiphone.com/default.asp?ProductID=34&CollectionID=3

 

Maple is maple

 

and Korina is Korina.

 

You'll note that is says it finishes are "ko and eb".

 

So they've added a stain to give it a color reminiscent of vintage korina. That's why the numbnuts thought he was looking at alder on the inside.

 

More Korina: http://www.epiphone.com/default.asp?ProductID=31&CollectionID=3

 

Now here's a mahogany alder mix:http://www.epiphone.com/default.asp?ProductID=30&CollectionID=3

 

So why would they lie about the korina if they don't lie about the mahagony/alder model??

 

It ain't like boards of korina are worth their weight in gold. Big slabs of either mahogany or korina are very scarce and pricey, but not boards.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

He showed pictures of the refinishing process, it was cleary alder. Also when he stripped it the veneer came off if I remember correctly. My point is it was definately alder, not korina. Maybe they made different batches of body woods, some people I have talked to have said that they are usually a couple of pieces (ranging from 2-7) of low quality korina with a higher quality korina top. Sure, its korina but no more than nato is just lower quality mahogany. I know I have those pics somewhere around here of the stripped explorer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I have not seen the thread about Explorer construction, but frankly, I dont exactly have faith in Epis specs either. There could be various scenarios involving previous production specs, different factories used to build the guitars, material availability issues, and temporary substitutions.

 

As far as truth in advertising, it seems that there is a lot of wiggle room in terms of defining wood species content in a guitar. There are heaps of variants that just get called "ash" or "mahogany", while being of totally different origin than the materials we recognize from classic guitars. They are like chicken nuggets- as long as there is a certain percentage of chicken, or its parts and by-products, you can call it a chicken nugget!:D

 

Original Explorers and Vs were prototyped in mahogany. Gibson has stated that 38 original Explorers were made, while official numbers on the V from 1958/59 are 98. Approximately 20 more Vs were produced from leftover parts in the early '60s(since we are getting out our books!). IIRC, current prices on either of those go well into six digits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Originally posted by timmy210

He showed pictures of the refinishing process, it was cleary alder. Also when he stripped it the veneer came off if I remember correctly. My point is it was definately alder, not korina. Maybe they made different batches of body woods, some people I have talked to have said that they are usually a couple of pieces (ranging from 2-7) of low quality korina with a higher quality korina top. Sure, its korina but no more than nato is just lower quality mahogany. I know I have those pics somewhere around here of the stripped explorer.

.

 

Pics ain't going to do it for me. Even the naked eye can throw you off.

 

Give me DNA evidence then we'll talk. For now I'm going with the Mfr's specs.

 

And why would this dork ruin his guitar. And I agree with what you're saying, for $445, it is going to be a lower qualty korina.

 

It's like mahogany. The best stuff used to come from South America where it rains a lot and the would is very porous. Now a lot of it comes form Africa were it isn't as porous and not as resonant. Korina however, has always been reported to come from Africa.

 

But it's not like there's a bad tree and a good tree, it's the size of the pieces. Laminate guitars (plywood) are not as common as they were several years ago. People caught onto that and wanted solid bodies. Now all but the very cheapest (bullet, etc) models are "solid bodied" but now the wood is boards glued together vertically instead of horizontally. So in essence, the less expensive models, like this Epi Explorer, use what would be considered "scraps" in the luthier's world.

 

But I used to work in a lumber mill, and even with pine, fir, cedar, tamarack, white fir, sawn boards that reach 12" wide are in the small minority. So having access to a piece of wood wide enough to make a single pieced explorer from select tone wood would be rare feat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Originally posted by timmy210

The epi korina explorers arent made out of korina, they have a korina veneer and alder body.

 

99% of Epi stuff these days is either veneer or plywood, though you wouldn't know it unless you looked in the PUP cavities, neck pockets or sawed through the body...I'm surprised people don't realize the Epi line is cheaper cause they cut a lot of corner ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Originally posted by Clyde42

I have not seen the thread about Explorer construction, but frankly, I dont exactly have faith in Epis specs either. There could be various scenarios involving previous production specs, different factories used to build the guitars, material availability issues, and temporary substitutions.


As far as truth in advertising, it seems that there is a lot of wiggle room in terms of defining wood species content in a guitar. There are heaps of variants that just get called "ash" or "mahogany", while being of totally different origin than the materials we recognize from classic guitars. They are like chicken nuggets- as long as there is a certain percentage of chicken, or its parts and by-products, you can call it a chicken nugget!
:D

 

You noticed that too, don't seem like there's anyone gonna REALLY keep guitar makers 100% honest in their promotion/advertising of el-cheapo guitars, does it ;)

 

Most of the Asian guitars these days that are advertised as "Korina" or "Mahogany" are actually made of Nato or Agathis, whatever is available & looks the part.

 

Betcha that EPI was actually Agathis with possibly a Korina veneer - Some examples of Agathis look very similar to Alder...

 

It's a fact that foriegn guitar makers fudge a lil' here & there , but people that buy them don't wanna hear it, perhaps they can't tell the diff...LOL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

You guys keep on thinking that boards of korina are gold or something.

 

Sure epi cuts cost corners, but by using smaller pieces of wood, not by using other valuable tone woods such as alder.

 

Now here's a limba (another word for korina) body. You'll note that without the yellowish stain, it has a white and brownish colors that is common with ash.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/LUTHIER-CHARVEL-JACKSON-COMP-BLACK-LIMBA-SOLOIST-BODY_W0QQitemZ7349511917QQcategoryZ41406QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

 

A curse uon you all!:cool:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...