Members Alanfc Posted September 9, 2005 Members Share Posted September 9, 2005 I know we can make practically anything duck anything else... but in rock music these days, like on the radio,which are the most common pairs of tracks they're ducking and what are the benefits? also, maybe could you name some band/song examples? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kiwiburger Posted September 10, 2005 Members Share Posted September 10, 2005 Duck bass with kickDuck hats with snareDuck pads with vocal Compressing groups achieves a similar effect, and mastering covers a multitude of sins, so I can't tell who is doing what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CN Fletcher Posted September 11, 2005 Members Share Posted September 11, 2005 Originally posted by Kiwiburger Duck bass with kickDuck hats with snareDuck pads with vocalCompressing groups achieves a similar effect, and mastering covers a multitude of sins, so I can't tell who is doing what. Duck hats with snare? What? You want everyone to sound like Charlie Watts? Duck bass with kik? You don't believe in getting the sonic arrangement right? About the only thing I can think of that I duck on a somewhat regular basis is the guitar "ambience" tracks on 'over the top' metal stuff which I duck off the vocals after getting the largest guitar sound possible... other than that I find "ducking" to be an almost 'last resort' technique if I'm having a problem getting the arrangement to work properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alanfc Posted September 11, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 11, 2005 So ducking isn't a regular thing every pro does off the bat.? (I hope not). From your comment I gather its not a requirement on every mix.thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Paully Posted September 11, 2005 Members Share Posted September 11, 2005 Originally posted by Alanfc So ducking isn't a regular thing every pro does off the bat.? (I hope not). From your comment I gather its not a requirement on every mix.thanks Right. Duck only parts that conflict with the centerpiece, be it a lead vocal, instrument, etc. I like to put tracks to be ducked on the same stereo buss, then auto-compress the buss as needed. I think someone already mentioned that. Use the centerpiece track to trigger the compressor applied to that stereo buss. AUX. sends are great trigger sources, if you have enough of them. Careful EQing, phasing and placement of individual tracks can help avoid the need for ducking. Compressing a single track is usually not a function of gating.. just normal self-keyed compression. I find that low frequency instruments (bass and kick), and hi frequency stuff (cymbals, shakers, etc.) don't usually interfere with the centerpiece, so I'll break the rest of the kit (toms, snare, percussion, etc.) out to a seperate buss and duck/compress if needed. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kiwiburger Posted September 11, 2005 Members Share Posted September 11, 2005 I basically never duck anything. But this was a discussion about ducking, asking for suggestions about what could be ducked. As I mentioned - I tend to bus things to groups, and then compress them. Which sort of achieves the same thing - but ducking would be worth experimenting with. What's wrong with sounding like Charlie Watt's? And off course I work on the musical arrangement of kick and bass first. For many years I just worked with sampled drums and bass. Trying to get some life out of dead samples is a challenge. Something that works quite well is this 'ducking' trick. I actually love the overtly compressed, sucking sound of early rock. Somebody hugely famous once said that compression was the sound of rock. Anway - if you haven't ever tried it, try this: Play whole notes for your bass line - just long extended notes that sound boring. Add a kick pattern - and it will probably just sound like whole bass notes with a kick pattern over the top. Now compress or duck the bass with the kick - adjust the attack and release so the bass sort of sucks and grooves with the kick - I think it's cool. The same thing with hats and snare. It adds excitement and movenent to an otherwise static pattern - especially if it's samples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alanfc Posted September 11, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 11, 2005 cool thanks guys so this involves the sidechain thingy on my software compressor, this has always mystified me but I've never followed it through. I'll get on it!thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kiwiburger Posted September 13, 2005 Members Share Posted September 13, 2005 In the old days they used to duck witches and heretics. I think the general idea was if they drowned, they were guilty. Seems fairly foolproof to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sweet Posted September 13, 2005 Members Share Posted September 13, 2005 Um... what is ducking? I just read the whole thread, and still don't have a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kurd_01 Posted September 13, 2005 Members Share Posted September 13, 2005 Well when a man duck and lady duck love each other very much they get married.... and on their wedding night..... Oh no, thats something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sweet Posted September 13, 2005 Members Share Posted September 13, 2005 Originally posted by Kurd_01 Well when a man duck and lady duck love each other very much they get married.... and on their wedding night..... Oh no, thats something else LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Billster Posted September 13, 2005 Members Share Posted September 13, 2005 Originally posted by sweet Um... what is ducking? I just read the whole thread, and still don't have a clue. Moving a part down in the mix to make room for another part. For instance, a song might have a really prominent guitar sound for the intro, then "duck" the guitar level when the vocal enters, and return the guitar to a higher level when the vocal pauses. etc.... My feeling is that ducking is really an affect, and should only be used as such. Affect, not Effect, look up the difference. Obvious ducking is kind of a distraction, and overuse is probably a sign of a bad arrangement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CN Fletcher Posted September 13, 2005 Members Share Posted September 13, 2005 Originally posted by sweet Um... what is ducking? I just read the whole thread, and still don't have a clue. If I have two sounds that occur at the same time and I want one sound to control the level of the other sound I put the sound I want to be prevalent to the "key" or "side chain" or "control" input of a compressor and the sound I want to be "ducked" [as in the level will duck under the level of the sound you want to be the prevalent sound] through a compressor. When the sound you want to be the prevalent sound is present it tells the compressor to turn down the other sound by ___db [it does this because the compressor for the "ducked" sound is controlled by the compressor for the "prevalent" sound]. Does this make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Billster Posted September 13, 2005 Members Share Posted September 13, 2005 What Fletcher said:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Paully Posted September 13, 2005 Members Share Posted September 13, 2005 Originally posted by Kiwiburger In the old days they used to duck witches and heretics. I think the general idea was if they drowned, they were guilty.. I think that was called 'dunking'. Today, lots of witches still get dunked which, if they're not careful and use protection, can lead to a housefull of little witches. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kiwiburger Posted September 13, 2005 Members Share Posted September 13, 2005 No, it was definately called ducking. They used to having 'ducking stools' - which was like a cage on the end of a see-saw. You put the witch/heretic/nagging wife into the cage, and lowered the whole thing into the river. Basically it was a rudimentary lie-detector. If they drowned, they must have been bad. Crude but effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Billster Posted September 14, 2005 Members Share Posted September 14, 2005 Originally posted by Kiwiburger Basically it was a rudimentary lie-detector. If they drowned, they must have been bad. Crude but effective. You have that backwards. If they drowned, they were mortal, and were not witches. OOOOOOOOOOOPS! If they survived the dunking, they were immortal witches that must be burned at the stake! Either way, I wouldn't want to be accused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted September 14, 2005 Members Share Posted September 14, 2005 I usually duck when the sh*t hits the fan.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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