Members Walters9515 Posted September 13, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 13, 2005 To have a static delay between two tape decks, you don't use varispeed. Run them at the same speed, in sync, and then adjust the delay you want by slowing one down temporarily with your thumb. So if i slow down the 2nd tape deck will it still be In sync? or out of sync? It seems to me that the motors need to be locked in sync but tape machine#1 is normal and tape machine#2 have a different speed rotation but the motors are "in sync" but at different motor rotations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kiwiburger Posted September 13, 2005 Members Share Posted September 13, 2005 Walters - this is the point where we would normally tear our hair out in exasperation at your mind boggling stupidity and use some naughty words. But since this is Phil's forum, we won't do that here. If there is a time delay between the two tape machines, they can't possibly be in-sync. They can be playing the same material, at the same speed. But they can't be in-sync, because the definition of in-sync is the they be playing the same thing at exactly the same time. Not delayed. To have a static delay between two machines they need to be at the same speed. So they could relatively in-sync, as in their AC synchronous motors are both running on the same AC frequency. As soon as one slows down (as in thumb on the flange) you get that sweeping, flanging sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhythminmind Posted September 13, 2005 Members Share Posted September 13, 2005 hey kiwi... we have seen this guy around the net.. this is what he does... everyone just ignore this thread.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kiwiburger Posted September 13, 2005 Members Share Posted September 13, 2005 Yeah - I've been trying to knock some sense into him for ages. I think he just likes to talk rubbish for talking sake. We're not too different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Walters9515 Posted September 13, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 13, 2005 Kiwi i got it know i think When i duplicate the copy i Record it at 1ms or 5ms or 10ms behind the original onto another tape deck When i play back the original and the copy at 1ms or 5ms or 10ms copy the AC motors are in Sync so you get a Static Delay from the dry original and the new copy 1ms or 5ms or 10ms dupilicated copy running at the same time will give a degree delay time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CN Fletcher Posted September 13, 2005 Members Share Posted September 13, 2005 Originally posted by Kiwiburger In your 2 tape machine situation - by placing your thumb on the flange you slow the machine down. So relative to the first machine, it is losing time. Call that 'degrees' if you will - it's all just a time relationship. Kiwiburger, in a true "tape flange" scenario, you have two three headed machines of the same make [so the record and repro heads are of equal spacing] running at the same time. You record the signal to both machines at the same time... then, you put your thumb on the tape flange of supply reel on one of the decks, slowing that deck just a bit so there is a time offset between the two machines that creates the phase cancellation effect. Once you remove your thumb both decks return to normal speed and there is no more time offset between the two machines. There is no "static delay" as the source materail arrives at both machines at the identical moment in time. If you try to do a tape flange with the material already recorded in "repro" then yes, you would have created a static delay... but seeing as you record the material to both machines at the same time, the removal of the thumb erases any static delay. Capise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chao Posted September 13, 2005 Members Share Posted September 13, 2005 Originally posted by kylen Post a clip so we can hear your cool creation - otherwise what good is it? For all of Walters' retarded lines of questioning, he doesn't seem to actually record anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kylen Posted September 13, 2005 Members Share Posted September 13, 2005 Originally posted by Fletcher@mercenary.com Kiwiburger, in a true "tape flange" scenario, you have two three headed machines of the same make [so the record and repro heads are of equal spacing] running at the same time. You record the signal to both machines at the same time... then, you put your thumb on the tape flange of supply reel on one of the decks, slowing that deck just a bit so there is a time offset between the two machines that creates the phase cancellation effect. Once you remove your thumb both decks return to normal speed and there is no more time offset between the two machines. There is no "static delay" as the source materail arrives at both machines at the identical moment in time. If you try to do a tape flange with the material already recorded in "repro" then yes, you would have created a static delay... but seeing as you record the material to both machines at the same time, the removal of the thumb erases any static delay. Capise? Cool - now this is getting fun again! We ought to tell Walters to use a...Oh - hi Walters, there you are - I didn't see you over there! Try this in a DAW if you like in your audio application if it supports parameter automation. By the numbers: 1. Grab free VST sample delay or audio delay. Here's a couple from Voxengo (that support param automation): http://www.voxengo.com/product/sampledelay/ http://www.voxengo.com/product/audiodelay/ 2. In your favorite audio app, Sonar - for example, clone your original track1 so there is and exact copy on track2. 3. Insert one of the delays (probably audio delay since it works in milli-seconds) in track2. This delay will emulate the physical tape flange or supply reel of deck #2. 4. Assign automation to the delay parameter in track2. This emulates your physical thumb (hehe). 5. Now play the 2 tracks - they begin in-sync. As you begin to apply your "virtual thumb" to track2 and the delay increases from 0ms delay the "flanging" effect should occur. As it immediately settles in when you stop changing the delay (similar to adjusting "manual" on the Boss pedal) you'll be left with whatever phased comb relationship you happen to have at the time. Then begin adjusting again and the flanging effect will begin again. The cool thing to do would be to hook up a control surface, assign a couple of sliders to some dekay params and use the sliders or knobs as your virtual thumb! If you get something cool (no matter how you do it) post a clip so we can hear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Walters9515 Posted September 13, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 13, 2005 Thanks guys for the help If you try to do a tape flange with the material already recorded in "repro" then yes, you would have created a static delay Yes recording the material with the delay offset on the copy tape deck#2 machine so when played back with the #1 tape deck dry signal they will create a static delay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kiwiburger Posted September 13, 2005 Members Share Posted September 13, 2005 Thanks Fletcher. I've only ever considered tape flange as something you do with pre-recorded material. I can see your point about doing it while tracking - the machines couldn't have a static delay. Sorry to confuse you Walters - I was talking about two tape machines running two copies of the same source. The thing is - I really don't know if you are real or not. So you really are playing around with actual tape machines and flanging while tracking? I'm amazed that somebody with your skill level is allowed near expensive machinary? Off course, many people hear think that you are an older experienced guy just yanking our chain. I guess we will never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Walters9515 Posted September 13, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 13, 2005 So to get a Static Delay of 1ms or 10ms i have to do it while tracking? having 2 tape machines and recording the #2nd machines at 10ms or 1ms varispeed while Recording? so when playing back the 0ms tape deck#1 and #2 tape deck the delay will be Static 10ms or 1ms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kylen Posted September 13, 2005 Members Share Posted September 13, 2005 hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kiwiburger Posted September 14, 2005 Members Share Posted September 14, 2005 This is the point where Mr Walters has worn out his welcome yet again and we just walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CN Fletcher Posted September 14, 2005 Members Share Posted September 14, 2005 Originally posted by kylen Try this in a DAW if you like You can also try several cross faded edits [like a 2-4 bar long crossfade] with the same material... they invariably flange like a bastard!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kylen Posted September 14, 2005 Members Share Posted September 14, 2005 Originally posted by Fletcher@mercenary.com You can also try several cross faded edits [like a 2-4 bar long crossfade] with the same material... they invariably flange like a bastard!! Mmmm - yummy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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