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Do people still want pro tools?


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Pro Tools seems to be the industry standard these days, and unfortunately if you don't have a Pro Tools system, you're not "professional" enough, at least in the eyes of could-be-clients.

 

 

I could care less if a studio had Pro Tools. What matters is what the engineer can do with what he has.

 

If he can make me sound fantastic on a PreSonus Firepod and a trial version of Kristal, well then that's all I need.

 

On the other hand if the guy has a Pro Tools set up but has no mixing or engineering capabilitites; well....sorry but you've wasted my time and I'm going someplace else.

 

 

If we can get our fellow clients and musicians to know that even if you don't have Pro Tools, it's still going to be okay.... well then I think we can get somewhere.

 

But everybody uses PT everywhere so it's kind of a hard thing to avoid.

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Originally posted by wooden

Do you think that the musicians not involved in the recording process (and maybe producers) are still looking for pro tools in studios, or have they realized that there are other capable daws?

 

 

While a small few understand there are choices, the undenyable industry standard is still Protools, and that's what the public has been sold on. No 'Tools, no pro.

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I could care less if a studio had Pro Tools. What matters is what the engineer can do with what he has.

 

I absolutely agree. The recording gear you use, beyond a certain quality / performance / capabilities point, is less important than the skill of the person using it.

 

On the other hand if the guy has a Pro Tools set up but has no mixing or engineering capabilitites; well....sorry but you've wasted my time and I'm going someplace else.

 

Well, I would respectfully suggest to you that the artist / musicians have AT LEAST as much to do with how the record is going to turn out as the engineer does. :) Gear is important, and so is the ability of the people using it. Give Mario Andretti a Yugo and the ten year old kid down the street who's never driven anything but arcade sims a Porsche and let 'em race a few laps... and if I was a betting man, my money would be on Andretti and the cruddy car every time. ;) But get a pair of drivers with less incongruent skill levels together, and suddenly the equipment matters a great deal more. And of course, all the great gear in the world isn't going to save the day if you start with cruddy songs, poor quality, out of tune instruments, and players who can't really play.

 

PT has gotten a bit of a bum rap IMO in some ways. It's become a almost generic term for DAW software in the minds of the marginally to completely uninformed. And it gets a lot of the "blame" for a lot of the records that are done on it... and in some cases, that may be somewhat fair - we can discuss converters and digital vs analog audio another time, but certainly with the ease of grid based editing, as well as time stretching, looping, comping, pitch transposition / editing and tons of other processing tools (which either didn't exist or were MUCH harder techniques to perform back when I got started in this business over two and a half decades ago) and the temptation to tweak and process things beyond what is probably prudent has become too much for some people to resist.

 

And that brings us to the crux of the matter IMO... it's not the tool that has caused that to happen, it's the decisions of the people who are operating that equipment - whatever that equipment might be.

 

To many musicians, DAW software has become an "easy way out" - no need to get all the way through a full take anymore (prior to the 1950's / early 1960's when punches became commonplace), heck, you don't even have to sing it in tune ONCE... just get close one time, and we can now tune it, and then copy it to every chorus...

 

Of course, some musicians, producers and engineers utilize the tools in creative ways, and not just as "session salvation" for poor quality performances... and for them, having lots of tools handy is a great thing... but the really good ones know when and how to use those tools, and when they're working with great artists (and everything, and I mean EVERYTHING begins and ends with the musicians and songs), they know when to use the tools and when to just get out of the way and capture what the musicians are playing.

 

Some musicians have used, or watched programs being used, and have a preference for one program or another, based on their needs, knowledge and preferences. Others know a bit about the various programs and don't care what you use as long as you know what you're doing with it and the program doesn't get in the way of the sessions (IOW, doesn't crash or take forever to do things with...). Still others have heard only a brief mention of a program on a TV show or read it in a Rolling Stone article or interview... and let's face it - Digidesign has had a pretty good marketing run over the past decade or so. :D

 

I know you can do a good job using Sonar or Nuendo or Samplitude or SAW or Logic or whatever... and YOU know you can... but some clients might not know the difference. They're musicians, not engineers. :) Again, some knowledgeable musicians might know... but others - heck, even some gifted, but non-technically oriented players might not know the difference - and for them, not having "Pro Tools" might be a deal breaker... or not. That's when you have to do your job and explain to them a little bit about DAW's... use the Chevy / Ford / Dodge analogy if you want, or whatever... but explain to them that there are a lot of different programs, and this is the one you know and prefer to use.

 

For some players, that might be all it takes. Others may still prefer to stick to their biases - for whatever reasons. I use Pro Tools daily, but it's mostly because I really like the program's elegance and the UI. I could go into Sonar and do the job there... but I still prefer PT for many (but not all ;) ) tasks... but that's MY preferences showing. And while *I* know I can (and how to) transfer tracks from just about any DAW program to just about any other DAW program, most musicians don't know how to do that... and you'd be surprised how many sessions and files I've gotten from other commercial studios, where the tracks were not exported and / or saved properly. :( So certainly, compatibility is a valid reason why many musicians insist on PT.

 

You can base your studio on any software you want, and you can do great work on a lot of different programs, but if you use something other than PT, you have an extra step involved with the "selling" of your studio to some prospective clients. Assuming you can do so reasonably and knowledgeably, and you have the music you're recorded to play for them that shows you know how to get good results, then you'll probably be successful at convincing many of them to trust your judgement and the tools you've chosen. But probably not all of them.

 

But heck, I've seen clients who wouldn't go NEAR your studio if you were running PT... only 2" would do, or Logic or... ;)

 

How's that for a long, roundabout response? :D

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Originally posted by geek_usa

Pro Tools seems to be the industry standard these days, and unfortunately if you don't have a Pro Tools system, you're not "professional" enough, at least in the eyes of could-be-clients.

 

 

Pro-sTools has become a generic phrase like "Kleenex" or "Xerox"... you can have any DAW you want, as long as you can deliver the goods at the end of the day.

 

If a client, or should I say potential client doesn't want to book the room because you're running a different DAW... then they're an idiot you didn't want as a client in the first place [they will invariably be the schmuck that stands over your shoulder and second guesses everything you do because they read that Bob Rock does it this way... blah, blah, blah]

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Originally posted by
Fletcher@mercenary.com



Pro-sTools has become a generic phrase like "Kleenex" or "Xerox"... you can have any DAW you want, as long as you can deliver the goods at the end of the day.


If a client, or should I say potential client doesn't want to book the room because you're running a different DAW... then they're an idiot you didn't want as a client in the first place [they will invariably be the schmuck that stands over your shoulder and second guesses everything you do because they read that Bob Rock does it this way... blah, blah, blah]

 

unfortunately when you are starting, and you need the money like me, you want even those clients if they are willing to pay...:mad:

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I remember when ProTools first released their free version a friend of mine would brag to the circle of musicians that he was now running ProTools and how supperior it was to Cakewalk Pro! He "forgot" to mention his ProTools was not the HD system running in most major studios and it barely ran on his meager PC. Name recognition is the most powerful marketing tool available. I forgot which comedian wrote the joke, but in the world of medicine there is only one "The Pill". Same in the audio world, to Joe Schmo there is only one computer recording thingy...

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Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe

And while *I* know I can (and how to) transfer tracks from just about any DAW program to just about any other DAW program, most musicians don't know how to do that... and you'd be surprised how many sessions and files I've gotten from other commercial studios, where the tracks were not exported and / or saved properly.
:(

 

 

Please do tell me how to do that. :)

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Originally posted by geek_usa




Please do tell me how to do that.
:)

 

having them all start at the same time is easiest. that combined with using .wav files. then after any editing before transferring, consolidate the regions into 1 continuous file that starts at the same time as all the others.

 

put your audio files on a drive or disk to bring with you and them import them into the other DAW.

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Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe

Yup... that's guaranteed to work... but I've - no jive here - gotten sessions from other studios where they've managed to screw even THAT up!
:(

 

I'm flabbergasted by how many engineers don't know how to get individual tracks, all the same length, out of their DAW of choice. For some reason, many PT operators have a particular problem with this.

 

In PT, it's as easy as selecting a range in the ruler that encompasses all the audio, hitting "consolidate selection" from the edit menu, then "export selected as files" from the region bin.

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I love cubase, and it is what I have always used. I love live too... but i have met so many "pro tools only" guys that they make me wish to have pro tools, but i could think in many better ways to spend my money than in a reduntant daw. I have been told that it is very difficult to work with rewire and pro tools, is it true?

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You can talk all you want about other daws, but like it or not, PT is a standard. I've got an HD3 in my A room, and I'll put another in the B room when it comes on line. And no, I don't necessarily like Digidesgn, but I can make it work (and so can outside engineers).

 

If you aren't running the kind of operation where a good sized PT system will pay for itself in 12-15 months, then it's good to look for other alternatives, though.

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Originally posted by Dave Martin

You can talk all you want about other daws, but like it or not, PT is a standard. I've got an HD3 in my A room, and I'll put another in the B room when it comes on line. And no, I don't necessarily like Digidesgn, but I can make it work (and so can outside engineers).


If you aren't running the kind of operation where a good sized PT system will pay for itself in 12-15 months, then it's good to look for other alternatives, though.

 

 

If we talk about HD systems I wouldnt even think about it...i talking about the simple LE.

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ok i know this is a REALLY stupid question but i cant resist :)

 

would you actually consider pro tools to be better then the top of the line cakewalk and steinberg software which cost twice as much? is it just that the cakewalk and steinberg stuff has lots of features that arent nessisarily pro quality, and if u wanted pro quality u would buy extra plug ins and such? or is it that pro tools has better hardware support?

 

in other words obviously pro tools is the norm, but is there a logical reason for this other then the people running hte place have been using it for years and stick to what they know?

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Originally posted by mick8569

ok i know this is a REALLY stupid question but i cant resist
:)

would you actually consider pro tools to be better then the top of the line cakewalk and steinberg software which cost twice as much? is it just that the cakewalk and steinberg stuff has lots of features that arent nessisarily pro quality, and if u wanted pro quality u would buy extra plug ins and such? or is it that pro tools has better hardware support?


in other words obviously pro tools is the norm, but is there a logical reason for this other then the people running hte place have been using it for years and stick to what they know?

 

You have to differentiate PTHD/TDM vs. PTLE. If it's LE, then no, Protools isn't better. If it's HD, TDM. then very possibly.

 

 

However, I have seen astronomically bad work being done on PT, so Phil's point about it not being the DAW's fault is really applicable.

 

 

-Todd A.

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Originally posted by The Chinese



You have to differentiate PTHD/TDM vs. PTLE. If it's LE, then no, Protools isn't better. If it's HD, TDM. then very possibly.



However, I have seen astronomically bad work being done on PT, so Phil's point about it not being the DAW's fault is really applicable.



-Todd A.

is M-powered stuff that u see for sale with other home recording software the LE version? is it totally different from pro tools used in studios? sorry for another stupid qs :)

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Originally posted by EngineGuitarist



having them all start at the same time is easiest. that combined with using .wav files. then after any editing before transferring, consolidate the regions into 1 continuous file that starts at the same time as all the others.


put your audio files on a drive or disk to bring with you and them import them into the other DAW.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, I should have clarified.

 

How to do that WITHOUT having all the tracks start from zero. That's basically a no brainer, but sometimes they give you the tracks and they all start from different times; and i'd like to learn how to set them all in time.

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Originally posted by geek_usa




I'm sorry, I should have clarified.


How to do that WITHOUT having all the tracks start from zero. That's basically a no brainer, but sometimes they give you the tracks and they all start from different times; and i'd like to learn how to set them all in time.

 

 

well as the chinese mentioned there is OMF. but your DAW must be able to make and open them. I think this is an extra in PT HD, as in, you must buy it. im not even sure if its an option for LE.

 

or, if you have a click printed at the begining of the song on all the tracks then they dont have to start at zero but they would need to all have a click at the same time before the song starts. and of course made into 1 file.

 

the other option was actually an exercise I had to do in school. we'd get like 12 tracks and have to make them in time. it's a pain but not too bad. unless you've got some really weird time sginature's going on that you arent used to. these were all continous files as well tho. if it were regions you'd be in hell.

 

there's also timestamping. which i dont know a whole lot about other than the file is "stamped" with the time it is suppose to start.

 

honestly, the start at zero thing is the norm because its soooooo easy. all you have to do is import the files and you're ready to go.

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I know from experience that people who know nothing of recording equipment and processes that Pro Tools is in some way a saftey net. That goes for pretty much any DAW, they seem to think that they'll come out sounding like a million dollars if they go to a studio with a DAW system. I've worked in an analogue studio for nearly 6 years and the equipment is very under the times, i have no editing abilities and not much decent outboard, yet i can honestly say that i get a much better sounding recording compared to other studio's in the area that use DAW's of some type. Not as production heavy in processing and so on since i dont have the facilities for it, but actual sound and energy wise, stuff i've done has always been that little bit better. It just always frustrated me that i was limited by the studio and the owner just refused to upgrade. I think much of the problem is that people go out and buy logic or some similar programme that doesnt cost the earth, intending to set up shop when they havent really had enough experience in basic recording to do a good job, call me bitter if u want but i've lost count of the number of 18 to 20 year old kids with a cubase bedroom setup and noe experience that have tried bad mouthing me and the studio i work in because we dont have a computer based DAW, and hence must be a {censored} studio.

So now im happy to say im starting my own studio based around an HD 2 setup and some quite frankly stunning gear. Finally i can make decent use of my abilities without being restricted by the studio!!!!

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