3 mic drum techniques

[wooden]

So who here uses 3 mic technique to mic the drum kit?

 

what setup/technique do you use?

 

what sweetening microphones do you use?

[sweet]

1 on the kick and 2 overhead. Place the overheads carefully in order to get the snare and toms, but not so close that the cymbals drown everything out.

 

I'm a rook, though, so I bet others have better advice.

[UstadKhanAli]

I don't know what a sweetening mic is.

 

I use four mics sometimes, although most of the time I get asked to close-mic.

 

2 modified AT4051s for overheads, usually a spaced pair

1 mic on the outside of the kick drum, usually a modified AT4060

1 room mic (usually a Lawson L251)

 

I could get away with using the room mic if I were to use omnis for the overheads, but I like having the room mic there because it gives me additional control. So yes, four mics, but you can see where it could easily be three. And sometimes, I end up not using the room mic anyway, so it really is THREE!!

 

I get a beautiful tone from doing this, very balanced and full. I have not gotten as good of a result from the Glyn Johns 3-mic technique, but I'm pretty sure this is more due to my inexperience and lack of a really great sounding room. However, the tone I'm getting from what I describe above sounds really great.

[where02190]

Shure VP-88 stereo mic for overheads

Rode NTK or AKG C4000B in omni for room mic.

 

Used just this on many recordings with superb results. The stereo mic sounds killer and eliminates any phasing issues with the overheads, the NTK/4000 out front, about chest high and 6-8ft (or more) from the kit captures the body of the toms and kick superbly.

[wooden]

Ive read of people telling that they use the kick mic "almost as a room mic". How do you position the kick and room mic for those of you using this setup?

 

For what you where and ken answered you have recorded with a stereo arragment as overheads and no snare mic right? how do you do to have the snare center panned? or do you leave it where the OH's picked it?

[where02190]

OH centers the snare, and the room mic is a mono mic.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

Originally posted by wooden Ive read of people telling that they use the kick mic "almost as a room mic". How do you position the kick and room mic for those of you using this setup? For what you where and ken answered you have recorded with a stereo arragment as overheads and no snare mic right? how do you do to have the snare center panned? or do you leave it where the OH's picked it?

 

 

Where answered the second part.

 

The first part...I use a room mic (which is why my setup isn't truly "3-mic"), so I don't really try and use the kick drum mic as a room mic. However, if you are placing your kick drum in front of the front head, it's picking up a fair amount of the room anyway. I guess you would just try and back it up slightly while still retaining the impact and sound that you want out of the kick.

 

~~~~~~

 

GENERAL APPROACH:

I start with two overheads. I listen to it, and if I think it needs more, I add more. So far, I'VE always felt that it needs a kick mic, so I add that. I listen again. If I think I might need a room mic, I add this.

 

Then, close mics. If either 1.) I think it needs a snare mic or 2.) the client does, then the kit gets a snare mic. Same with the toms.

 

I just start with the overheads, and then keep adding mics until I'm satisfied with the sound.

 

I don't always use all the mics in a mix. Some mixes, I either get rid of the room mic or ride it very low in the mix. Sometimes I get rid of the tom mics. Or the snare mic. It just depends.

 

I did a recording session a few months ago where the guy wanted a jazz sort of sound, so I used two overheads, one kick, one room mic. Sounded great, so I left it as is.

 

I just listen to what the overheads need.

[UstadKhanAli]

A lot of times, if you use omnis as overheads, you don't have to bother with a room mic. Sometimes I do this. Sound purty darn good. Just depends on the sound you're going after.

[where02190]

 

Originally posted by UstadKhanAli A lot of times, if you use omnis as overheads, you don't have to bother with a room mic. Sometimes I do this. Sound purty darn good. Just depends on the sound you're going after.

 

 

Or vice versa, use omnis for room mics. I often use a stereo pair of AKG C4000B's in omni mode and a single overhead, usually an AT 4033A.

[CN Fletcher]

Do your homework and find what Glynn and/or Andy Johns, or Dennis Weinrich or Geoff Emerick or Tom Dowd or Jack Weiner or Malcolm Chisolm or any of 1000 other brothers that were making records when you dad's older sister were doing back in the day were doing and you'll understand what the 1. 2 and 3 mic setups were all about.

 

It ain't rocket surgery, it's just recording good players with good instruments in good sounding rooms without trying to create {censored} that doesn't exist without good players, instruments and environmnets should sound like... in context with other great musicians with great instruments in great environments.

 

Is this boring?

[wooden]

Originally posted by Fletcher@mercenary.com

 

Ive been looking but the articles i find are far from comprehensive and well explained. Just the yours is fairly understable.

[T. Alan Smith]

 

Originally posted by wooden Ive been looking but the articles i find are far from comprehensive and well explained. Just the yours is fairly understable.

 

 

What about throwing up a mic and letting your ears tell you if it's positioned right is difficult to comprehend?

Those guys simply allowed their ears to dictate what was needed. It was simple & elegant. It was about simply capturing the performance and the feel thereof.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

Originally posted by where02190 Or vice versa, use omnis for room mics. I often use a stereo pair of AKG C4000B's in omni mode and a single overhead, usually an AT 4033A.

 

 

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

 

You just have to keep listening. And thinking. If it sounds like crap, change the position of the mic, the polar position, the mic itself, how you are playing, move some of your furniture or gobos around, move things around, or a jillion other options. What sounds good in my room with my drummer doesn't sound good if I change the kit, the drummer, etc., so there are a lot of variables.

[wooden]

And how about processing of the mics with these minimal setups?

[UstadKhanAli]

Nothing. Compression. EQ. Other stuff. Depends on what you want.

[where02190]

IN the 3 mic setup I never use any dynamics tracking, and I never ever eq when tracking anything.

 

When I mix a minimal mic kit (or any kit) I'll buss the tracks to two stereo groups and compress the hell out of one and blend to taste.

[wooden]

Thanks a lot guys, interesting

 

I understand how to center the snare with other techniques, but i dont understand how do you center the snare using MS or xy arragments, i guess the only way is putting the center of the arragment between the snare and the kick, for not to "de center" the kick. How do you do that? because what is in mi mind is that if you center the snare with thos arragments you could de center de kick and have half image completely out of the kit! I know i am wrong, so please, explain me

[Phil O'Keefe]

Wooden, it depends on what you're after and what mic technique you're using. Some folks will actually pull out a tape measure and make sure that both overheads in a spaced pair mic setup are equidistant from the snare drum - that will result in the snare drum being dead center in the stereo field. Others 'eyeball" it, while others don't mind the snare being slightly off to one side... again, that's a personal judgement call, but at the end of the day, I think what Fletcher was trying to say (in his own irrepressible style ) is that the goal is to do what the cats he mentioned (all were masters of minimal drum mic technique) all did - capture the sound of a great player, in a great sounding room on a good kit, as it sounds in the room. That means you're going to have to spend a little time out in that room listening to what that kit sounds like as it's being played, and even more time adjusting the mic postitions so that they capture a balanced representation of the kit, with the amount of room ambience you desire. If it doesn't sound good in the room, then you need to address the problem(s) at the source first - check the tuning, use a different kit - whatever it takes.... it's got to be happening in the room first. Then all you have to do is to place those three mics where they accurately capture what's going on out there.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

Originally posted by wooden I understand how to center the snare with other techniques, but i dont understand how do you center the snare using MS or xy arragments,

 

 

Where answered this already when you asked previously.

 

You should roll up your sleeves and just do it and listen. And then listen some more.