3 piece -vs- 1 piece neck?

[disartdsgn]

Most Gibsons (as well as most every other guitar) , seem to have one piece necks and I was wondering about the difference between the two.

 

Are 3 piece necks simply a cost-cutting issue? Seems to me that they would be stronger than one piece necks but conversely would they resonate less? Why are MOST Gibbo's 1 piece (except mine).

 

I know it's really not much of an issue, I'm just curious.

[wah wah]

Almost all Gibsons have mahogany necks. It's a much more stable wood than say maple. Maple tends to twist and warp. So a lot of luthiers will use multiple pieces when making a neck from maple.

[LaXu]

Lots of basses are made out of multiple pieces for stability and strength. Why most Gibsons are one piece is purely for historical reasons IMO.

[Bruce Bennett]

Gibson used onepiece necks for many years . then in the late 60-early 70s they went to 3 piece maple and mahogany necks.

this continued until

about 1986 when the current managment took over and reverted most models back to pre-1964 specs.

 

This is not a hard and fast rule, as they also made one piece during the same time period.

Gibson sort of built whatever they wanted during the 70s. and IMHO, they tened to abuse the loophole;..." Manufacturing specifcations are subject to change without notice"

[hondro]

yes

 

i think the Firebirds have a 9 ply neck, probably for the neck-thru design, someone explain this to me, all i picture when someone says this are pickguards!

[Bruce Bennett]

Originally posted by hondro yes i think the Firebirds have a 9 ply neck, probably for the neck-thru design, someone explain this to me, all i picture when someone says this are pickguards!

 

I have personally seen one piece, 3 piece and 5 piece necks on Firebirds..

but the firebird design has several "stepped" routs on it that seem to be there to "simulate" extra laminates.

[Darkstorm]

2, 3 & 5 peice necks will allways be superior to one peice. Stronger, less twist prone, more stable. Just another area where Gibson hasnt made the improvements less expensive makers have made.

[cylon]

WTF I thought maple was more steady then mahogony

[batotman]

 

Originally posted by wah wah Almost all Gibsons have mahogany necks. It's a much more stable wood than say maple. Maple tends to twist and warp. So a lot of luthiers will use multiple pieces when making a neck from maple.

 

 

I've never seen a warped fender neck but have a few mahogany necked ones!!!

 

And I'm looking at my strat and it sure looks to be one piece!

[batotman]

 

Originally posted by cylon WTF I thought maple was more steady then mahogony

 

 

(It is)

[thredlok]

 

Originally posted by Bruce Bennett I have personally seen one piece, 3 piece and 5 piece necks on Firebirds.. but the firebird design has several "stepped" routs on it that seem to be there to "simulate" extra laminates.

 

 

Hey Bruce,

when did they make the customs with a laminated mahogany bodies? I had a beat up old lp custom come into the shop that had an obvious sandwich of mahogany for the body with a maple cap. And a three piece neck:confused:

[TaZMaNiO]

Too be accurate, Gibson never made "one-piece" necks...they're at least two-piece, the neck plus the fretboard.

 

A true "one-piece" is just that and the fretboard is part of the neck (not glued-on).

 

Just wanted to clarify things

[TaZMaNiO]

Originally posted by platpyus59 Hey Bruce, when did they make the customs with a laminated mahogany bodies? I had a beat up old lp custom come into the shop that had an obvious sandwich of mahogany for the body with a maple cap. And a three piece neck:confused:

 

The Norlin sandwich era started in the early 70s & ended in 1977

[thredlok]

Originally posted by TaZMaNiO The Norlin sandwich era started in the early 70s & ended in 1977

 

Thanks!

 

they did a pretty bad sandwich job!

[T3]

Originally posted by TaZMaNiO Too be accurate, Gibson never made "one-piece" necks...they're at least two-piece, the neck plus the fretboard. A true "one-piece" is just that and the fretboard is part of the neck (not glued-on). Just wanted to clarify things

and the headstock.

 

another thing to consider is that not all wood is created equal... its harder to find a good quality piece big enough to use for a complete neck than it is to put together bits and pieces...

[wilmer]

Mahagony, or maple, or 3-piece, more "stable"? Come on, all modern guitars have steel tross rods.

[math2014]

The advantages of 1 piece mahogany necks on gibson style guitars are over 3 piece necks of cheaper versions where you got headstock/neck/heel pieces... which really dont contribute to any anti-warp properties.

 

The only antiwarp method would me laminated pieces like on neckthrough guitars.

 

3 pieces as mentioned/described above are only cost effective.

[meverett]

From a manufacturing standpoint, three piece necks are cheaper to build. (less waste).

There has to be harmonics generated at the joints which lessen sustain. The loss must be so small that it can't be noticed.

Three piece are stable and less apt to warp / twist so cheaper wood can be used. i.e. {censored} grains

 

One piece woods must be inspected for wood grains that will remain stable under tension.

 

It looks like if your going after a quality guitar, from an established guitar company (you know who). One piece is great.

 

If your buying a knock-off from the orient, whose factory changes their line, every production run, to some other wholeseller spec.

Run from a one piece.

[bunnies=dead]

 

Originally posted by batotman (It is)

 

 

No, Its not. Read any book on the properties of wood and youll plainly see that Honduras Mahogony (the traditional mahogony for guitar necks) is alot more dimensinally stable with changes in humidity compared to easter hard rock maple. Now, maple is STIFFER, but not more stable. Maple is much more prone to twisting and will need more frequent adjustments of the relief etc.

[Alchemist]

 

Originally posted by bunnies=dead No, Its not. Read any book on the properties of wood and youll plainly see that Honduras Mahogony (the traditional mahogony for guitar necks) is alot more dimensinally stable with changes in humidity compared to easter hard rock maple. Now, maple is STIFFER, but not more stable. Maple is much more prone to twisting and will need more frequent adjustments of the relief etc.

 

 

I can second this as I am currently building a guitar, I tried an all maple neck but it has too much of a tendency to warp, but I like the feel so I am doing a 3 piece lam with a 1 inch thick morado in the middle, hopefully that works:confused:

[Bruce Bennett]

 

Originally posted by meverett From a manufacturing standpoint, three piece necks are cheaper to build. (less waste). There has to be harmonics generated at the joints which lessen sustain. The loss must be so small that it can't be noticed. Three piece are stable and less apt to warp / twist so cheaper wood can be used. i.e. {censored} grains One piece woods must be inspected for wood grains that will remain stable under tension. It looks like if your going after a quality guitar, from an established guitar company (you know who). One piece is great. If your buying a knock-off from the orient, whose factory changes their line, every production run, to some other wholeseller spec. Run from a one piece.

 

 

Harmonics are never "generated" within a neck... only "filtered" or "attenuated" by the construction method. and sustain is all about how resistant to disappation losses the neck is.

which could be interpreted as

The Stiffer the neck, the better the sustain. and multi piece necks certainly are stiffer.

but I feel that sustain can be affected by the necks "attachment method" much more severly, than by "just" the neck stiffness.

 

yes a multi-piece neck will have a very different resonant frequency than a single piece. but I don't think anyone has ever been able to say one was better than another. only different.

 

Wood grain inspection should have the same importance in either type construction method and perhaps even more so in multi piece methods, because incorrect grain orientation in a multi piece neck would present more problems than it could potentially solve if the differing grains are improperly glued together.

 

So far. There is not one Asian manufacturer that uses One piece construction... yet. at least none that I have seen cross my bench.

 

Most Korean and Chinese factories are useing a flat sawn "neck section" ( first fret and down toward the body) with a "spanish luthiers jointed " headstock added to the neck section. this is that "Smiley face curved joint" found on the back of the neck starting behind the 2nd fret and runiing toward the first fret.

sometimes it is even moved up toward the headstock to be located behind the nut.

This is done sop that the factory can build tons of "neck blanks" and then add the customer specified headstock design later on.

 

you may also find "heel stack" laminates and or headstock "wings" added. but these are not as important. IMHO

[bunnies=dead]

 

Originally posted by Bruce Bennett Harmonics are never "generated" within a neck... only "filtered" or "attenuated" by the construction method. and sustain is all about how resistant to disappation losses the neck is. which could be interpreted as The Stiffer the neck, the better the sustain. and multi piece necks certainly are stiffer. but I feel that sustain can be affected by the necks "attachment method" much more severly, than by "just" the neck stiffness. yes a multi-piece neck will have a very different resonant frequency than a single piece. but I don't think anyone has ever been able to say one was better than another. only different. Wood grain inspection should have the same importance in either type construction method and perhaps even more so in multi piece methods, because incorrect grain orientation in a multi piece neck would present more problems than it could potentially solve if the differing grains are improperly glued together. So far. There is not one Asian manufacturer that uses One piece construction... yet. at least none that I have seen cross my bench. Most Korean and Chinese factories are useing a flat sawn "neck section" ( first fret and down toward the body) with a "spanish luthiers jointed " headstock added to the neck section. this is that "Smiley face curved joint" found on the back of the neck starting behind the 2nd fret and runiing toward the first fret. sometimes it is even moved up toward the headstock to be located behind the nut. This is done sop that the factory can build tons of "neck blanks" and then add the customer specified headstock design later on. you may also find "heel stack" laminates and or headstock "wings" added. but these are not as important. IMHO

 

 

I have no problem with scarf jointed headstocks when theyre done WELL. Much stronger (much less runout)...the only problems are 1)the joints are usually {censored}ty 2)theyre a pain in the ass to get clamped up and 3)when the joint is underneath the fingerboard the creep in the joint can affect the 1st or 2nd frets.

 

All said, and imo, its alot easier, and nicer looking to just do front and back laminates on a headstock, and just as strong as a scarf joint if not more.

[Wyatt]

A lot of Gibson solid-body fans feel the one-piece neck vibrates better and is more resonant that the more stable 3-piece or 5-piece necks. In short, they think the tone is better. I dunno. Different perhaps (on the level of subtle naunce), but better is subjective.

 

The 3+ piece necks, with the pieces running parallel to the length of the neck, are definitely more stable. And most expensive jazz archtops, from Gibson to Bendetto, from a price range from $6,000 to $50,000 use a mutiple-piece neck. These are guitars are are designed from the bottom up for acoustic tone, so I think arguments that multiple piece necks lack in tone are pretty much debunked by this.

 

As to the truss rods, unless you have a dual truss rods like a Rickenbacker (which uses 5-piece necks), a truss rod godes nothing to prevent warping of the neck, it is purely there to hoold the bow of the neck. Steel russ rods have existed since the '30's (except during WII), and they haven't done a damn thing to save a warping neck.

[Jim_Soloway]

We've done several 3 piece laminate necks. Cost had nothing to do with it. We just wanted to try making the neck stiffer. Ultimatley we decided that it had no real benefit for the 6-string and we went back to the 1-piece, but for the 7-string where there's much more tension on the neck, the extra rigidity (especially when coupled with a stiffer fingerboard) adds a lot and it's now a standard feature on our 7-strings.

[disartdsgn]

Thanks for the interesting read everyone. If I guess that Gibson made my Tennessean with a 3 piece neck because:

 

1. It's maple so it might be less stable than mahogany.

 

2. The 25.5 scale might also have something to do with it's need for extra stiffness and stability.

 

3. Because Chet said so.

 

Thanks again.