Microphone state laws

[kylen]

Well - it went to the delta that's where I'm headed...east of the Mighty Mississippi anyways.

Sorry you don't like your NTK large diaphram. I've got a couple of LDs that don't sound good on my vocals but I figure I'll use them for room mics and ambience - I'm headed towards a dynamic mic again for vocals. I see 'em on TV all the time like a SM58 beta and other affordable things of that nature...runnin into a $2000 GT Vipre or something maybe but anyway...

[Walters9515]

GT Vipre Thats what u need to use to make the NTK work right

having the NTK is like having a good lens on a camera but your camera and film is cheap whats kind of picture are you going to get its the same with recording u need a good preamp like the brink or vipre , good mic EQ , good mic compressor, good convertors thats the only way its going to be matched and worked right there is no other way

[Phil O'Keefe]

Originally posted by Walters9515 the deltas! in the pickup?

I believe he meant "details".

And I agree Walters.. whatever the "reason", your first couple of posts on page #2 of this thread were MUCH easier to understand.

BTW, if Walters wants to switch topics and ask another question about something new on one of HIS pre-existing threads, I'm fine with that... IMO, that's better than starting thread upon thread and bumping them all...

[seclusion]

Back to your mic situation, Up here at L&M in Toronto they gave me the option to rent mic's! Yes rent them, they mentioned that all mic's sound different even the same mic's will sound different but that I should be able to get an idea of what I wanted! Obviously I was not able to rent all the high end mic's! But this was when I wanted to buy one and needed to test a few! Ended up with a Rodes NT 1 and a AT 4041. I had to rent some 57's for drums way back and I ended up buying them!
As for sales people because I've spent over $50K over the years at L&M I only deal with Mike P, he's like the only guy who's judgment I trust yada yada!
Later

[EerieDreamZ]

Originally posted by MorePaul -that's just part of the character talking Of course there is an act I'm off to bed, but I do want to mention that you did MUCH BETTER today seriously - it's about the deltas! we can do this

Paul, YOU are, God

[MorePaul]

Oops, sorry abt that gents -- didn't mean to be cryptic

"delta" is just geek-ese for change

[offramp]

Originally posted by MorePaul we can do this

 

 

But...why should we have to? Haven't most of us got enough on our plate in the first place, enough to do already? Why should communication be this much work?

[Walters9515]

Thanks a good idea about renting mic's to really know what im getting instead of buying them thanks

[MorePaul]

Originally posted by offramp But...why should we have to? Haven't most of us got enough on our plate in the first place, enough to do already? Why should communication be this much work ?

 

 

It's an 'uplift war' - just helping someone out who's lost a little direction

 

we already HAVE the problem -- perhaps obviating the problem is the right answer, perhaps mitigating the problem is the answer...and for some, perhaps ignoreing the problem is the right move

 

sometimes the question isn't so much why...it's how

 

 

[offramp]

Originally posted by MorePaul It's an 'uplift war' - just helping someone out who's lost a little direction

 

 

And who, by most evidence, seems to ignore the help.

[MorePaul]

Originally posted by offramp And who, by most evidence, seems to ignore the help.

 

 

it's a process and we each have to make our judgements -- there are the other options...to obviate the problem or to ignore the problem

 

I suppose phil has to make judgement on the former (and it certainly is an option)

[daklander]

From Sweetwater's return policy page.
Non-returnable Items:
While we maintain the most liberal return policy in the industry, there are certain items that cannot be returned for very specific reasons. These items include Software, which manufacturers will not accept returns for, and any item that is considered personal; such as an earphone, instrument mouthpiece, or other items that you wouldn't want to purchase if someone else had their DNA on them.

From Samash.
No returns past 45 days. CDs, DVDs, video tapes, sheet music, books, strings, computer hardware/software, drum heads, harmonicas, mouthpieces, sound cards, microphones, raw speakers, studio furniture, blank CDs/Tapes or Special Orders are not covered by this return policy.


I'm sure other sellers have the same, or similar policies in place.

The demo situation is a bit different, IMO, because that demo mic can be sanitized between uses.
I don't think I would necessarily hesitate to purchase a demo or used microphone but that's because I have sanitizing agents that I can use to clean them.

[Zooey]

Originally posted by MorePaul Zooey it'd [prob help if we can quote the Cal sate or UCC section that covers it, otherwise we are spinning out wheels...any idea what the specific area of code that describes this?

 

 

I was referring to Section 1723 of the California Civil Code. "Health considerations" is not defined.

 

Like I said, though, I don't think that's the issue.

 

This issue is that there is an immediate and obvious difference between a SM57 and a Rode NTK on any equipment, including a cassette four track with built-in mic pres, unless the mic is broken.

[MorePaul]

Originally posted by Zooey


I was referring to Section 1723 of the California Civil Code. "Health considerations" is not defined.


Ah, if this is the section under which they are disallowing return (or rather allowing there exception to 1723's provisions for conspicuous posting of policy) -- Walt *might* (or might not) have some leverage IF the store is allowing rentals, not conspicuously sanitizing (or even allowing) demos [could potentially speak back to the "common expectations" ]


Like I said, though, I don't think that's the issue.

This issue is that there is an immediate and obvious difference between a SM57 and a Rode NTK on any equipment, including a cassette four track with built-in mic pres, unless the mic is broken.

There we disagree - If refusal for the return were based on performance expectations, I could see that.
But since walt mentioned that he is being denied return based on "health considerations" that's the return issue we are actually dealing with
(I don't know which retailer he was dealing with...Walt, perhaps you could enlighten us) but many of them have a return policy allowing return based on dissatisfaction with performance

[mikeSF]

Originally posted by Walters9515 How can it be a health regulations? its just breath what would be the health regulations

 

 

it's not just breath. i would be pretty pissed if i contracted Tuberculosis from a vocal mic I thought was brand new(never used). spores can live inside the cells of the foam or on surfaces for a long time. no store or manufacturer wants to assume that type of liability, thus the policies.

 

it is also a very good idea to wash new clothes before wearing them to remove some of the little nasties(body lice, etc) which may have hopped on while in the store or when being tried on. other dudes may have gone commando in your new Dockers.

[Zooey]

Originally posted by MorePaul Originally posted by Zooey There we disagree - If refusal for the return were based on performance expectations, I could see that. But since walt mentioned that he is being denied return based on "health considerations" that's the return issue we are actually dealing with I don't think the problem is insurmountable, but for the sake of discussion (and I do enjoy this discussion!), this is what the store would say. If the policy is properly posted, it's game over. If the policy is not posted, but the goods fall into the category of non-returnable items, then the policy doesn't have to meet common expectations because that section doesn't apply. If there's no way to justify that mics fall into that category (here's where the consistency of the store's actions regarding microphones comes into play), then common expectations apply. Common expectations have been interpreted to mean that in the absence of a posted policy, a refund, exchange, or credit is available for seven days following the purchase. I still think the strongest argument that the mic is defective. Repair, replacement, or refund should be available from the store or the manufacturer. Of course, if he just has buyer's remorse and wants a way out, he shouldn't go down that route.

[MorePaul]

Originally posted by Zooey


I don't think the problem is insurmountable, but for the sake of discussion (and I do enjoy this discussion!), this is what the store would say.


agreed , it shouldn't be insurmountable - just talk to the management


If the policy is properly posted, it's game over.


It depends on what their policy actually says (it can be a bit circular) in that if their policy simply states "health considerations" without more specificity - we are right back to defining IF the merch in question falls into that category


If the policy is not posted, but the goods fall into the category of non-returnable items, then the policy doesn't have to meet common expectations because that section doesn't apply.

ypu, but we have remaining the question of definitng "common expectations" here


If there's no way to justify that mics fall into that category (here's where the consistency of the store's actions regarding microphones comes into play), then common expectations apply.

yup and that's the rub



Common expectations have been interpreted to mean that in the absence of a posted policy, a refund, exchange, or credit is available for seven days following the purchase.


Remember the "common expectation" we are talking about here is the "health concern" as opposed to the time
(it sounds as though, and perhaps walt can bring more to the table, that the retailer didn't have problem with the return interval..if it was one of the "biggies" they may have the advertised 30 day or so return policy to contend with altering that expectaion)



I still think the strongest argument that the mic is defective. Repair, replacement, or refund should be available from the store or the manufacturer. Of course, if he just has buyer's remorse and wants a way out, he shouldn't go down that route.

agreed - *IF* he thinks the mic is defective

[skunky_funk]

Ummm, can alcohol help? (Of course don't drench the mic with it...)

[Walters9515]

policy is properly posted where at?

No one said nothing or my paper work from the music store
has anything saying health conditions about not returning this item should it say this is a health regulation on the paper work from the music store ? because it doesn't at all

[mikeSF]

Originally posted by skunky_funk Ummm, can alcohol help? (Of course don't drench the mic with it...)

 

 

alcohol wont kill the spores, but a bleach solution will. again, what dealer would want to mess with that?

[fuzzball]

One reason is that they can not sell the unit as new when it is returned. This may be the real reason. Besides if you think about it would you want to buy a mic and not know who has had their mouth on it. (some people reall like to be close). I think they should have a test unit for each one so that they can be taken home and tested.

I skiped a few pages so I am sorry if it was already mentioned.

[UstadKhanAli]

Originally posted by Walters9515 policy is properly posted where at?

 

 

store which you purchase where at?

[Phil O'Keefe]

Originally posted by Walters9515 policy is properly posted where at? No one said nothing or my paper work from the music store has anything saying health conditions about not returning this item should it say this is a health regulation on the paper work from the music store ? because it doesn't at all

 

 

It might be posted on a sign on the wall, a sign near the mic display case, and / or on the "policies" section on the back of your reciept. I've seen all of the above at various stores.

[dougb415]

Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe It might be posted on a sign on the wall, a sign near the mic display case, and / or on the "policies" section on the back of your reciept. I've seen all of the above at various stores.

 

 

I know that at least some GCs have the "no returning of microphones" policy. When we bought our Rode K2, we made arrangements with the salesman to have two weeks to test the unit.

[john@vienna]

I think that we should all buy some merch from guitar center, piss all over it, and return it. suck that health code violation!

i once bought a harmonica from gc and it sounded bad so i went back to return and they gave me that state law crap. So i just stood their and complained loudly and finally the manager sold me another harmonica for $3. I never make major purchases at gc, only emergencies. Complain long and loud enough and they will do anything to make you leave.