Members Kid Klash Posted February 3, 2006 Members Share Posted February 3, 2006 Three weeks ago, I bought a used ADAT from a guy off eBay ( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted February 3, 2006 Members Share Posted February 3, 2006 Do you have any recourse through eBay at all? I'd definitely file a complaint. Did you pay through PayPal? Some of the stuff has some sort of a "guarantee". That sure sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kid Klash Posted February 3, 2006 Author Members Share Posted February 3, 2006 Originally posted by UstadKhanAli Do you have any recourse through eBay at all? I'd definitely file a complaint. Did you pay through PayPal? Some of the stuff has some sort of a "guarantee". That sure sucks. The only thing eBay has said is that I have 30-90 days to change the negative feedback to a positive one, if I choose to change it. I'd be happy to change it if he'd send my money back. And no - no PayPal - I sent him a money order, so my money is as good as gone. This was only my second eBay purchase... there won't be a third. :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scapier Posted February 3, 2006 Members Share Posted February 3, 2006 I'm pretty sure it's ebay policy that the condition of the object is the seller's responsibility until it is recieved by the buyer. This is his problem not yours, and I've had friends successfully have ebay remove funds from a seller's account when this happened. This is why I don't do anything other than paypal. Even though you've paid in another fashion I'd like to think Ebay would have other recourses for you. Where in Michigan does he live? surely one of our colleagues on this list could 'visit' him? ;>) Spencer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted February 4, 2006 Members Share Posted February 4, 2006 Ebay scares the beegesus out of me. I buy from my local Craigslist frequently. Touch, smell, work with, etc. the gear before handing over the money. I bought an ADAT with a hundred hours on it for $200 and got to check it out completly before paying for it. There was a guy selling two rarely used XT 20's on Monday for $75 each. I missed getting them by about an hour. But I hear these ebay horror stories all the time. Scary.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scapier Posted February 4, 2006 Members Share Posted February 4, 2006 I feel like I will jinx myself for saying this, but I've never had a major burn with buying stuff on ebay. I've had friends get really burned by going OFF ebay (like a couple of grand scammed on a laptop) but the only time I've been burned was when the buyer of my Matchless Lightning didn't pay for shipping after I'd sent it (one of my first ebay deals). I really didn't know how fedex worked and he said he'd pay for the delivery when the item showed up. He says he did and he paid cash but Fedex went after me for the three hundred bucks it cost to ship back then. I was plenty ticked at Fedex for not making it clear to me whose responsibility it was to pay for shipping (there's a long story here I'm probably making not clear) but the end of the story had me being harrassed by fedex's collection agency and the local better business bureau saying I was probably in the right but Fedex is an 800 pound gorrilla and the best thing to do was to just pay the damn bill. Okay apart from that Ebay is cool. This probably was not the comforting post it was intended to be. Oh well. Spencer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members daklander Posted February 4, 2006 Members Share Posted February 4, 2006 I both buy and sell on ebay. So far so good.A couple of mistakes were made on your part.1) YOU didn't insure it. That is your responsibility if you want the thing insured and the cost is usually pretty cheap. Anything fragile is a must for insuring as well as costly items.2) As soon as the damage was found it should have been brought to the seller's attention, not after taking the thing to a repair shop. Also, if there was any damage at all on the box it should have been brought to the attention of the shipper's delivery person. It's also a good idea to take photos of the carton either way.3) You paid by something other than a credit card or Paypal. Go through the ebay resolution system. It's hoops and time consuming but it may get your money back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 I agree with Dak. There were some less than ideal decisions made on the transaction, and that is a learning experience I wish you didn't have to go through. But FWIW, I would also take his suggestion about going through the Ebay resolution system. It can't hurt. Money orders are good for the seller, although even they can be forged and sellers get taken by worthless MO's sometimes. Paypal gives you a couple of advantages as a buyer - first of all, you get a way to get your money back if you are well and truely ripped off. That's also true of purchasing with a credit card. I have only made a few purchases and sales on Ebay - about 17 or 18, IIRC. So far, everything has gone fairly well. I had one $150 deal that seemed like it was going to go bad, but it turned out well in the end, after a little research and a phone call or two on my part. And that's the thing - when buying on Ebay, IMO, a lot of problems can be avoided (and out of the ones that are left, a lot of those can be cleared up) with just some good communication and some prior research. And I'm not just talking about "what's the going price for such an item" type research, as important as that is. Emails and phone calls are very important too. ASK via email what the condition of the item is before bidding. Get clarification on the item description, especially on anything that seems vague or unclear on the listing. It's also usually a good idea to check the payment terms, shipping, insurance and other particulars, and to nail down who is going to be responsible for what if you happen to win the bidding. Just a little back and forth communication can tell you a lot about the seller's attitude, knowledge and the item's history and condition. You can also get those other items figured out, such as the payment, shipping date, etc. If you don't get a good feeling about the deal, trust your gut and take a pass on it; or at least go into the bidding with the knowledge that it might not be in the condition you ideally want, and you know you're "gambling" a bit, so bid accordingly. You either have to be willing to accept that, or factor in some probable repair costs, and even be willing to accept an occasional "oh well I took a chance and lost" deal. And IMO, that's always the case whenever I see a "I don't know much about it - I'm selling it for a friend" type listing. I know it's going to be a gamble when I see something like that in the listing, because it limits what I can find out about the item. I always provide my email and my phone numbers to the buyer / seller, and prefer to get the same. If you know you have a way to speak with the other party if a problem arises, it helps with the deal confidence IMO. And on a really big dollar deal, I would also highly recommend a third party broker. I sold a rather expensive mic once, and a friend of mine (well known around these parts, but I shall not name him lest he be plagued with requests to do it for others ) helped me greatly by brokering the deal. If you're buying or selling something that's worth thousands, shedding a few extra Jacksons on the broker is cheap insurance and peace of mind. I know I'm not a huge Ebay guy, but I've managed to have nothing but reasonably good deals (100% positive feedback ) that all worked out decently for me over the years - and I attribute that to doing a bit of research, trying to keep the communications open and trying to be fair and civil, and expecting fairness and civility in return. But no matter how much research, it's still possible to be "had". I think that's fairly rare, and most sour deals are just bad misunderstandings or lack of communication. But while you DO have to be careful, IMO, most of the time, using Ebay is okay if you take a few simple precautions I'm sorry you had a bad experience. Get ahold of Ebay through the Ebay Security Center and explain what happened and go through the problem resolution process, and please keep us posted as to how it all turns out. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DontLetMeDrown Posted February 4, 2006 Members Share Posted February 4, 2006 FYI - All UPS shipments are automatically insured for $100. If you want it insured for more, you pay for "insurance". I realize you probably paid more than $100, but you should be able to easily recoup that. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kid Klash Posted February 4, 2006 Author Members Share Posted February 4, 2006 Thanks for all the feedback everyone - I'll try the resolution process through the eBay Security Center link Phil provided. I saved all the Emails from this guy, which should make it fairly easy to state my case. FYI - I told the guy that it was thrashed and didn't work before I took it to the repair shop, not after. He told me to file a damage claim with UPS, even though the shipping carton didn't have a scratch on it when it arrived - the corners weren't even dented. I couldn't believe the overall poor condition of the ADAT or the error message problem was caused by UPS because of the condition of the carton, and I didn't want to file what I thought would be a fraudulent damage claim, so I decided to suck it up and took it in to be repaired. The icing on the cake was when the shop told me the error message meant that the motion sensor switch was fried and wasn't serviceable. And you're right - it was my mistake, assuming that the guy actually did insure the package, which he didn't... I'll chalk this up to a hard learned lesson made by a naive eBay beginner (me). I was a bit too trusting; believe me - it won't happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EveningSky Posted February 4, 2006 Members Share Posted February 4, 2006 I have had a few excellent experiences over Ebay. I find the concept and organization both facinating in some ways genial. That being said, I have also had many so-so experiences and a 2 downright problem transactions. IMO, Ebay is not concerned enough to protect the honest consumer, and I advise great caution in its use. Sure, everyman/woman wants "something for nothing", the expensive piece of equipment, "IN MINT+ CONDITION", hardly used, .... . In reality, the sellers are full of professionals who make good money by pedaling someone elses junk, lemons, used&abused, often streching the truth, often having little to no idea of what they are selling, let alone if it works. Folks, high end audio equipment "does not improve with years, like a fine wine." I welcome Ebays successor, who will do more to identify sellers, and buyers, and do more to insure safe and honnest transactions. Until then, this Ebay member will remain very weary of this instituion. ES; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MoreGuitars Posted February 4, 2006 Members Share Posted February 4, 2006 I have bought a lot from E-Bay, but I make it rule not to buy anything over a couple hundred bucks. I have only had one transaction that went bad. It was for some guitar straps that I had a great experience with him just a few months earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kid Klash Posted February 5, 2006 Author Members Share Posted February 5, 2006 well, I took Phil's advise, and filed a fraud claim ("not as advertised") at eBay. The seller's first reply was pretty wimpy, stating "all I cared about was that the cosmetics were a bit rougher than expected". HA!!!!!!!! I replied that the costmetics aren't the issue - he implied he was selling a working ADAT, which commanded GOOD money from many bidders, but it doesn't work - error 2 (burnt out sensor switch, so it kicks out a tape as soon as it's shoved in). Error 2 means that the sensor was burnt out, not shaken apart, before he shipped it to me, and was not caused by UPS shipping. I'm not going to file a fraudulent shipping claim with UPS. Period. Anyway, I'd say he's (hopefully) pretty much blown out of the water, and I'm hopeful that eBay will make him refund my money... I hope. My wife is pretty pissed about this too... "no more eBay - EVER!!!" You married guys know all about this... Then, as the kicker, the SOB gave me a {censored}ty eBay feedback report too because I filed a claim : "This guy is a crook! Don't a sell to him!" I hope he's got hemorrhoids, and eats a greasy dinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuzzball Posted February 5, 2006 Members Share Posted February 5, 2006 Where does this guy live (I live in Michigan) First as mentioned I only use paypal (for reasons you have learned). I suggest taking pictures of the unit you recieved so that you can compare it to the description provided. DO you have the box it was shipped in (that might help if the box was in good shape, it would prove it was in crap shape in the first place). I would also tell ebay about him leaving you negative feedback as a retaiation. I have had good luck with ebay, but I only buy items that are picture and have paypal for payment. I do this so that I can compare the unit with the picture. Have you considered taking him to small claims court? This guy is a prick and I hope I live close enough to him to take a bat to his car (or him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted February 5, 2006 Members Share Posted February 5, 2006 Classic example why I stay clear of ebay. Regarding Paypal, my one experience with a bad e-bay/paypal purchase, Paypal basically told me too bad, since you accepted the package it's yours, you should have checked the merchandise before signing for it. I say publish the guys name, address and phone number everywhere you can. Sign him up for everything online possible. Post this info on his local Craigslist, and contact his local police department, he may have done this to others. Also contact the shipper and tell them of your experience, he may have a record with them of refusing shipments, and they may blacklist him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuzzball Posted February 5, 2006 Members Share Posted February 5, 2006 If you have a picture of the unit from the ebay description and his letters of communication I would consider small claims court as an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted February 5, 2006 Members Share Posted February 5, 2006 I'm assuming that the buyer and seller are in different states, so that's reason #1 small claims is not a good option. Time and travel costs will run you more than you lost, and there's little to no enforcement of small claims judgements. Should you win, then you have to collect. If the seller doesn't pay, you must then go back to court (in another state) and get the court to issue a summons to appear, which you must pay to serve on the seller. they can then still not who, they are found in default but again you must pay to have them served.... I know several people who followed this scenario through over the years, it ended up about a wash for them, meaning you're still out the bread. You might look into interstate shipping fraud laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brittanylips Posted February 5, 2006 Members Share Posted February 5, 2006 Originally posted by Kid Klash Three weeks ago, I bought a used ADAT from a guy off eBay ( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuzzball Posted February 6, 2006 Members Share Posted February 6, 2006 Originally posted by where02190 I'm assuming that the buyer and seller are in different states, so that's reason #1 small claims is not a good option. Time and travel costs will run you more than you lost, and there's little to no enforcement of small claims judgements. Should you win, then you have to collect. If the seller doesn't pay, you must then go back to court (in another state) and get the court to issue a summons to appear, which you must pay to serve on the seller. they can then still not who, they are found in default but again you must pay to have them served....I know several people who followed this scenario through over the years, it ended up about a wash for them, meaning you're still out the bread.You might look into interstate shipping fraud laws. You have a good point I wasent thinking about the distance barrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 Originally posted by Brittanylips Normally, i would side with you, the duped customer, just as I'm siding with Todd. But in this case, you are clearly being punished for continuing to embrace a format that should have long ago been put to rest. At this point in time, anyone who buys ADAT risks the wrath of the gods. -Peace, Love, and Brittanylips ROTFL! Sorry Kid Klash, but he's got a point there. I used to know every ADAT error code by heart... Then again, computers have their own sets of problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Chinese Posted February 6, 2006 Members Share Posted February 6, 2006 Kid- For what it's worth, this could be an easy fix... As i recall Error vode two has to do with the transport being not completely in it's reset position- in other words at some point it got a bit out of sync. If you open the unit (Did you send it back?) there is a wheel on the side which will aloow you to manually crank it into place. If that fails, then 90% of all ADAT Issues have to do with a part called the Idler wheel- Keep in mind that youre bascially in a VHS transport. There is a wheel that is located underneath where the tape goes in the Center of teht ransport. That wheel wears out. It only grabs with friction. That assembly costs less than $20. I used to field serveice my ADAT all the time, I never got more than 4-500 hours on those machines without tape chompage. Anyway, Good luck I sincerely hope it works out better than my situation (Oy Vey). -Todd A. EDIT: Ok I looked up some of my old field notes...I am wrong about the transport not resetting Er2 is a failure in the MOde2 Switch which governs whether the capstan engages. Basiclly the machine won't thread the tape properly. This is not user serviceable. The mode switches can fail at anytime, there seems to be a high level of unreliability in them. I looked on google and found an article written by Eddie Clietti, who if you don't know, is a great and respected tech who writes a column in Mix Magazine. http://www.tangible-technology.com/helical/alamode.html OK, Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kid Klash Posted February 6, 2006 Author Members Share Posted February 6, 2006 Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe ROTFL! Sorry Kid Klash, but he's got a point there. I used to know every ADAT error code by heart... Then again, computers have their own sets of problems. Yeah, I know... old technology... But I've got a project almost complete, and one of my three ADATs went blooey a month ago, which is why I bought this ADAT in the first place, just to get the project done. Now I'm licking my wounds on three levels; I'm still using old technology, this guy scammed me out of my money, and I'm dealing with my wife saying "I told you so"... Sheesh! Any way, I'm trying the eBay dispute system... The seller's reply to my dispute was the same as one of his Email comments : " he's an eBay Power seller with over 600 sales, and I'm some little guy with one previous eBay purchase, with a crummy feedback (thanks to him)", so "too bad". I hope the eBay dispute system works. Also - to everyone that's posted and PM'ed me about "taking a drive over to his place and rearranging his face/car/whatever", thanks for your support, but I think we'll get more mileage out of having this slimeball's business practices reviewed by the eBay policy police than giving him a baseball bat across the back of his head (although it won't be as satisfying!). Now comes the wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kid Klash Posted February 6, 2006 Author Members Share Posted February 6, 2006 Originally posted by The Chinese Kid- EDIT: Ok I looked up some of my old field notes... I am wrong about the transport not resetting Er2 is a failure in the MOde2 Switch which governs whether the capstan engages. Basiclly the machine won't thread the tape properly. This is not user serviceable. The mode switches can fail at anytime, there seems to be a high level of unreliability in them. I looked on google and found an article written by Eddie Clietti, who if you don't know, is a great and respected tech who writes a column in Mix Magazine. http://www.tangible-technology.com/helical/alamode.html OK, Hope this helps. Yeah, Eddie is THE repair guru for sure, and by the looks of his error message 2 explanation, it definately appears that the ADAT in question is a door stop/parts machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 Yup, Er 2 is a serious issue, and not user repairable. As far as idler wheels, the wheels themselves are usually just fine, and you can usually get away with just replacing the rubber "tire" that sits in the groove in the white nylon wheel. I used to buy idler wheel rubber O rings by the dozens, and would replace them on a regular basis, and whenever I had any problems. When you remove the idler wheel, be careful and go slowly - there's a small spring under the idler wheel retaining clip / spring combo, as well as the spring attached to the clip itself, so when you pull that clip off the top of the wheel, be ready to grab the spring underneath it because if you don't, it can / will go flying off and you may never find it again. A pain in the butt that I'm glad I no longer have to deal with, but OTOH, idler wheel replacement isn't all that hard to do for most people. There's even some good instructions for the proceedure over on the Alesis site - you can find it right here. And yes, Eddie's the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brittanylips Posted February 6, 2006 Members Share Posted February 6, 2006 Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe ROTFL! Sorry Kid Klash, but he's got a point there. "He"? Are you sure??? -Peace, Love and Blips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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