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An end to computer Choosing Frustration


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Originally posted by Shangrila17

...From looking at Rainrecording,Sweetwater,Carillion,ADKProAudio,PcAudioLabs, and many others.


All of them jack the prices of the components up.And none of them offer many different choices in the first place.

Here's an example and I've said it before.

At PcAudioLabs unless you pick an AMD FX or Opteron they only give you a choice between two motherboards 1 Asus and 1 Soltek.

and only the soltek has firewire.So if you want firewire you only have one to choose from.That's not a choice.

All those damn companys act like their selling the only components that work good for music.


I don't want to buy the components from them is basically what I'm saying.


I'll pay them to build it.And to do all the tweaking,and for tech support and any other service they may offer warrentys and factory restore disks and sh#$.


I love the services that music computer companys offer


But I ain't gonna buy their components cause the prices and selection is bullsh#$.



...From looking at Fender, Gibson, PRS, Ibanez, and many others.

All of them jack the prices of the wood and none of them offer many different choices in the first place.

Here's an example and I've said it before.

At Fender unless you pay for a higher price Tele they only give you a choice of Alder. And only the Thinline is ash.

That's not a choice. All those damn companys act like their selling the only instruments that work good for music.

I don't want to buy the wood from them is basically what I'm saying.

I'll pay them to build it. And to do all the finishing, and for set up and any other service they may offer warrentys.

I love the services that guitar companys offer

But I ain't gonna buy their wood cause the prices and selection is bullsh#$. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ;)

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I'll pay them to build it.And to do all the tweaking,and for tech support and any other service they may offer warrentys and factory restore disks and sh#$.


I love the services that music computer companys offer


But I ain't gonna buy their components cause the prices and selection is bullsh#$.



You don't seem to understand that the companies that build audio PC's are not selling components. What they're selling is everything you say you want but aren't willing to pay for.

Even in your theoretical company, when you add up the assembly, tweaking, tech support, and labor warranty costs you're not going to be far off of what the companies that build audio PC's charge. You just have to stop looking at it on a per-component basis. But you haven't figured in the cost of the research on the front end. Everything costs money, including figuring out which combinations of components do not work together in certain configurations, etc.

Your theoretical company has some fundamental flaws if your comparing to a ready-built system. If you buy a PC and there's a warranty issue you go to one place. In your situation you'd have to figure out what went wrong, which component was at fault, and go back to where you got that component. That alone could put you out of commission for months. You can't expect your theoretical company to cover you in cases like that. And if things don't work overall, at best you could recoup what you paid them to build your computer, but you can't expect them to cover the costs you paid for the components or replace the computer as a whole.

There are plenty of people out there who will let you buy your own components and build a computer for you.

-Duardo

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Originally posted by UstadKhanAli

It's pretty clear that you're either a troll or dense. In either case, there's not a whole lot that anyone can do about that besides ignore you.


You've gotten far better advice than you deserve, and if you choose to ignore it and continue prattling on, have at it.


At least Walters was amusing.



Agreed! The original question has been answered.

Someone close this thread.
:mad:

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Originally posted by UstadKhanAli

It's pretty clear that you're either a troll or dense. In either case, there's not a whole lot that anyone can do about that besides ignore you.


You've gotten far better advice than you deserve, and if you choose to ignore it and continue prattling on, have at it.


At least Walters was amusing.



+100,000,000,000:thu:

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Buy from newegg. they are EXCELLENT, and cheap, RMA is a dream come true in case you need it. and buying there is also one of the best online shopping experiences I've had.. lol what a spam, but they've never ever let me down so they deserve it!!!

The high-end choice now adays for a "music / Pro Audio and Video Rendering computer" is the Athlon 4800+ X2 it's better than any Intel Pentium out there for some tech reasons I'd explain in a computer forum ;) and it's rock solid STABLE it also runs cooler than any pentium. the only way to fry an AMD is by extreme OverClocking it as MANY MANY ppl do, or that you are just too stupid and cannot follow the picture instructions for propper heatsink installation...


I don't know that much about MACs so I won't comment on that...

Add a decent MOBO, a SATA II drive and 1 memory GB and you are good to go!!

I've gotta say, I'm using right now a "piece of junk" an Athlon 1800+ XP it's like 4 years old. And it runs FLAWLESSLY my copy of Sonar 5 PE. I can't play any new PC game and probably it'd explode if I try to. But it can run Sonar, Sound Forge and REASON!!! without problems so you figure...

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Originally posted by UstadKhanAli

It's pretty clear that you're either a troll or dense. In either case, there's not a whole lot that anyone can do about that besides ignore you.


You've gotten far better advice than you deserve, and if you choose to ignore it and continue prattling on, have at it.


At least Walters was amusing.



You just made my morning Ken. I don't think I've seen you get pissed like that and I enjoyed it very much. :)

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well, i guess i might as well hijack this thread!

couple of ??s:

what is 'sata'? a brand, model, or style?
anyone have any links on the pros and cons of going mainstream with a company like dell? i imagine it's been hashed out before...
if i were to build my own computer, which i have several times before, what are the good brands of moboard, power supply, drives, etc... and, which suck?!

thanks for your time!

paulski

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I believe this is a decent definition of SATA, which is made by Seagate and others:

SATA HDs

As for the other question, I'm gonna cut and paste Phil's PC system, which is a superduper fast system:

~~~~~~~Phil O'Keefe's PC:~~~~~~~~

Athlon 64 4200 X2, overclocked to 2.5 GHz. 35 degrees at idle, under 45 at full load. Screamin' fast!

Coolermaster Hyper 48 heatpipe / CPU fan, set at 1,300 RPM's fixed speed, and mounted on Arctic Silver 5 thermal grease.

ASUS A8N-SLi Premium mobo. It's fanless, and uses a heatpipe for chipset cooling. I'm currently running BIOS 1009.

Enermax Noisetaker 495AX (485W) power supply.

Sapphire ATI Radeon X550 128 MB PCI-E dual-head video card.

2 GB (4 X 512MB) Patriot DC PC3200 (2-3-2-5) RAM.

Promise TX133 PCI IDE interface (for extra HDD's)

Belkin TI chipset firewire card (for even more HDD's. )

Pioneer DVR-109 16X DVD burner.

Lite-On SOHC-5236K 52X CD-RW / DVD-ROM combo drive.

Thermaltake Tsunami Dream ( ) case. Other than the poorly chosen name, it's a nice case, although the shiny black paint, brushed aluminum front door and clear side panel take a bit more work to keep clean. But internally it has a lot of room, and is very easy to work on - it's a tool-less design. I like the drive cages and the fact that the drive mounts are shockmounted. I have two case fans - an 80mm and a 120mm, both on varispeed controls and set for fairly low RPM's -1200 or so IIRC.

Various (2 Maxtor / 1 WD / 1 Seagate) 7,200 RPM 8 MB cache P-ATA internal HDD's (over half a terrabyte total internal storage ) connected with round Coolermaster IDE cables.

Several external firewire drives.

Digi 002 / PT LE 7.0

Steinberg USB MI-4 as a secondary audio interface (iTunes playback, Sound Forge, etc.)

MOTU MicroExpress parallel port 4X6 MIDI interface. This may be replaced soon. It works, but half the time you have to manually reset it right after booting the computer. A minor gripe, but it's annoying.

Yamaha 01X / i88X as yet another audio interface. Mostly used with Sonar & Cubase and for hardware MIDI instrument / synth / efx returns - IOW, as a submixer to my 01V96.

Frontier Design Tranzport. How did we ever manage without them?

Three 17" video monitors Two CRT, one LCD. Two monitors (one CRT and the LCD) show the same thing (the main screen image) but are located in different spots in the CR. I have the LCD right in front of the sweet spot, and the dual CRT's are over at the computer desk. I use the dual head card and an active video splitter to feed the monitors. I run at 1024 X 768, 32 bit on the displays.

Windows XP Pro, Service Pack 2.

I use the mobo's onboard TI chipset firewire interface for my Digi 002, and the second (PCI card) one for mLAN and external firewire drives. I don't record directly to the externals - they're just for backups.

I disable everything in BIOS that I don't need or use. The S-ATA's, the onboard MIDI and audio, one of the LAN ports, etc. I do use one LAN port to interface with my Gigastudio / mixdown computer - an Athlon XP 2700 - which was my main DAW machine two generations back.

I have just spent way too much time trying to track down and fix some problems. Bottom line: If you have a Athlon X2 CPU on this mobo, do not use the AMD CPU driver. The standard Microsoft driver that is installed with Win XP works fine. Additionally, if you use an ATI video card on a nForce4 mobo, and use Pro Tools, do NOT install the ATI Catalyst software - just the basic video drivers. Failure to follow these suggestions can result in video / audio / MIDI conflicts in Pro Tools. And loss of hair that some of us just can't afford to lose.

Other than that, it's a great system. Seriously, It runs cool and it's fairly quiet. And it's very fast. And fast is good IMO. But reliability is even more important. Other than the software conflicts I mentioned above, the system has been stable, fast and reliable so far.

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UstadKhanAli you must be smoking crack.How would you know what's a waste of others time.Are you a newbi to computer based recording?No you say?Well I am.There's no need to be rude.

You say there are flaws in my Perfectmpc idea.Hey ding dong.There are flaws in nearly every single buisness on this here planet.what about the fact that pcaudiolabs only carries 2 brands of memory.Or they only let you choose between 2 mobos.and only one of them has firewire integrated.
I'm not stupid I know perfectmpc couldn't offer a warrenty on the actual components.but there are very simple ways to assure at least a little that one would'nt need a component warrenty as much as one would need assembly bios/windows tweaking,tech support and labor warrenty.It's not like newegg just ships out a bunch of non-working junk.If a component did not work then it's under the manufacturs warrenty.You simply call perfectmpc(techsupport) they tell you how to take the piece out step by step.you send the piece back.Get the new one call perfectmpc(techsupport) and step by step put the new component in.

You sure seem to know what's best for every range of knowledge to hate on a nigga for having an idea to help newbi's out.That's all it is,is an idea.Sure it could be improved but so could all buisnesses.

Anyone who said perfectmpc is a bad idea.Pretend for one single second that you know almost nothing about computers.And that you need one for audio production.Go visit everysingle "music computer maker" you can find and tell me they all don't have flaws.I have spent many months visiting everysingle music computer maker I can find on the web.and everysingle one of them come up short in multiple areas.The one with the fewest is CentralComputer.com because they carry tons of different components in many different brands at better prices.And they will build and tweak your computer like all the other ones.

UstadKhanAli are you so closed minded you can't put yourself in a newbis shoes for a moment.Or maybe you work for one of those music computer making companys and your scared of little competition.

I'm not a buisness man.I'm just a dude who likes music and would like to use the benifits of modern technology to record that music faster and easier.

I also know that buying a PC from perfectmpc would cost just as much as buying one from those other makers.When you factor in time spent,Tech-support,labor warrentys but at perfectmpc you get those things as options the whole idea is about options.Some people know more about what components they want and can tweak there own windows settings for music production maybe they just wan't someone to assemble it and get a couple years of labor warrenty.and or tech-support.
Options a plenty.Perfectly custimize every single detail.
By the way UstadKhanAli if you arn't a newbi.Then your opinion on this particular matter doesn't count.

Juggalo Luv Woo Wooot

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Originally posted by Shangrila17


You say there are flaws in my Perfectmpc idea.


Actually, I didn't. I said you were a troll or dense.


'Sokay, though.


Or maybe you work for one of those music computer making companys and your scared of little competition.


Yup, maybe that's it. You may not know anything about computers or business or be able to spell your way out of a paper bag or comprehend any solid advice that anyone's given you, but no matter - I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors.


I'm not a buisness man.


I know. But it's okay, Walters, it's okay...



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Pretend for one single second that you know almost nothing about computers.And that you need one for audio production.Go visit everysingle "music computer maker" you can find and tell me they all don't have flaws.I have spent many months visiting everysingle music computer maker I can find on the web.and everysingle one of them come up short in multiple areas.The one with the fewest is CentralComputer.com because they carry tons of different components in many different brands at better prices.



Actually, if I was a newbie that knew almost nothing about computers I'd rather go to a one-stop place who had a few standard tested variations to choose from rather than a whole slew of options. Of course, I probably wouldn't know this if I were a newbie, but knowing what I know now I wish someone had told me thins when I was a newbie (actually, when I was a newbie none of the options we're discussing were available, but you know what I mean).

When you factor in time spent,Tech-support,labor warrentys but at perfectmpc you get those things as options the whole idea is about options.Some people know more about what components they want and can tweak there own windows settings for music production maybe they just wan't someone to assemble it and get a couple years of labor warrenty.and or tech-support.



If you know what components you want and can tweak your own settings then why even bother with a music-specific company at all? And why would you need a labor warranty and tech support in that case? Just specify what you want and have someone build it. Believe me, if you try to offer all of those options, one of two things would happen...either the prices for the options a la carte would have to be so high that you'd be better off getting it all in one package, or it would be such a nightmare to get anything taken care of that you'd be out of business before you knew it.
-Duardo

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Well... since this thread is apparantly still alive, I'll chime in with another question and statement.

The Statement:

The problem with Pre-fab places is that in order to keep costs down, the may not use the best components. I personally don't mind putting together a PC (though I'm a bit nervous about installing a MOBO, so I usually get that preinstalled)... The rest is mostly plug and play. So the trade off for me is that I'd rather spend the money quality parts that I chose and put them together myself than to have someone do it for me with cheaper parts..

Now ... to my question.....

I was looking at the specs posted for Phil's PC. My question would be .. why the overclocking???

As I mentioned, one of my main concerns is stability so this is another thing that makes me nervous. Why overclock to get an extra .1ghz or so? Is it really worth doing considering the potential headaches? Wouldn't I be better off just buying a slightly faster chip run at manufacturer's specs than trying to tweek a little extra out of it?

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OC is not as dangerous as it used to be as long as you dont get too crazy with it. For instance, my new AMD Athlon X2 4800+ runs at 30 degress :eek: with a standard heatsink that came with it. In comparison, my old Athlon 2200+ ran at 79 degrees with a standard fan. Since these newer processors run MUCH cooler, they can be pushed harder before experiencing the problems normally associated with OC'ing. Theoretically, I could push my 4800+ until it is around 80 degress (just an example tho). BTW, the results you see are NOT .1 ghz. Sometimes more along the lines of .3 - .5 ghz. (pretty significant going from 2.5 ghz to 3 -- especially when yo consider that it is dual-core).

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here's the thing, there is nothing wrong with wanting to build your own pc or going out to find the best price - but that is compltely the opposite of going to a company and having them build it. i go to PCAudioLabs because i know that they will configure it perfectly and if anything is wrong (and by the way, that means anything, not just what they sold me, but my interfaces or other software) they are there to help me. you are comparing apples and oranges. if you want to build a machine, go find the best price on parts. if you want to have a machine built, go find the best machine with the best service.

i know from my research that beyond the service, PCAudioLabs was cheaper than the competition (even Dell) for the same machine.

i'm glad you can buy the parts cheaper. i'm glad you enjoy building computers - i don't, i enjoy making records and for me the 25-30% overall that will be added to the price means nothing next to knowing the machine will be perfect and the service timely - not to mention the time it will save me. don't bash companies for offering a service to people because you don't want it.

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