Members Shangrila17 Posted February 14, 2006 Members Share Posted February 14, 2006 If you've read any of my earlier posts I apologize for beating this topic to death. I've been looking for the perfect decently priced ($1500.00) "music computer" for several months now.(about 14 months to be exact) spending countless hours on the web researching diiferent companies and the Components they offer. Rain Recording,MusicXPC,pcAudioLabs,Carillon,ADKProAudio,Sweetwater and many others(i thinks 11 in all) I swear I have throughly combed through all of there Products,Warrentys,and tons of other slightly mis-leading information.So here's the deal if you don't believe me you can check for yourself go to PcAudioLabs and look at the CPU's you must choose from.Then open up a second window and look at www.newegg.com.Look at there CPU's, okay pick a proccesor on pcaudiolabs and look at the price.Now pick that exact same processor on newegg and look at the price. Here's a true example: PcAudioLabs AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ price=$490.00 newegg.com AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ price= $362.00 thats a $128.00 difference,for I swear the exact same model,exact same component, oh yeah did I mention they are absolutly the EXACT SAME Product. I promiss it's not just the Proccesors there doing this on they are charging nearly double the true price for the same thing.Why is that well "they have to make money" I here you say.Yes and that's the first charge that goes into configuring a PC from them. it's called the "Base Price" which is what they charge you to put it together, install your OS, and Tweak it for music production.So why the hell are they charging honest consumers damn near duoble the price of each component.I understand they have to make money I but the price differences per component will astound you go check it out for yourself I'll wait..... Krazy huh?It doesn't make any damn sense. So here's my thought. ALOT of Wise Real Musicians right here on Harmony Central that have been building computers for themselves for there music production needs all agree on one mega-fantastic website called www.newegg.com.Here you can get every single component you need to build the absolute best Music Computer for your needs,and the prices are sinfully low I swear go look.Ahh but here's the catch you can get these fantastic prices but we're musicians we don't wan't to learn how to put a computer together even if some say it is easy.We just wan't to get it plug it in and record.This is where places like pcaudiolabs does good on.Tech Support, 1 or 2 year Warrenty on Entire Machine,and they will install your software.This is really great why did they have to overprice there components? So here's my Idea everybody that reads this post please E-Mail Newegg.com and request that they possibly higher a small team (just a handfull of guys would do).That you can talk to.To help you choose the components needed to design a Music Computer just for you, and the best part is you would get those components at newegg prices.Then you pay them to assemble it,Install your OS,and tweak it for music Production.They could even offer Tech-Support,Warrentys, and any other additional services for a little more $.I swear if newegg.com would offer Computer building services, places like Sweetwater and PcAudioLabs would be forced to be more honest with there actual products prices. (If enough people E-mail newegg.com and request this service they will start listening) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kptkarl Posted February 14, 2006 Members Share Posted February 14, 2006 Heres a thought. Go buy the components at newegg and just put it together yourself. Start with a barebones system here If you can assemble a house out of a deck of cards starting with the ace working on up to the king you're 90% there. p.s. discard the jokers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kiwiburger Posted February 14, 2006 Members Share Posted February 14, 2006 That's crazy. If you keep waiting for a better PC, the one coming out next month will always be a better PC. And there are plenty of people already building PC's to your specs. If the eggy boys don't wanna, they don't wanna, so don't pester them. They would have to raise their prices if they went there. In my experience, the small companies run by young people who build fast gaming machines are your cheapest and best people to deal with. Just order a large case with the biggest, quietest power supply. Order the exact parts you've decided on. In 6 months time it will be obsolete anyway - but do you want to record now or what? Jump in - upgrade later. There is far more to recording than the PC - it's the cheapest, disposable part of your whole system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shangrila17 Posted February 14, 2006 Author Members Share Posted February 14, 2006 Sorry dudes but your both wrong you have no idea how many musicans out there wan't to create music.duh.That's why were called musicans we love are craft and study the hell out of it to do it right.Learning every single thing it takes to build a Music Computer is way to much for most actual musicans who just wan't to get right down to making music.and who are any of you to say that newegg should not offer this service.Maybe they would there's no way you can know that for absolute positive.BTW I know that even knew computers go obsolete in just a short amount of time but that does not give companys like PcAudioLabs the right to charge honest musicans double the price per component what the component is actually worth and selling for at places like newegg.Go to PcAudioLabs and configure any PC.Then go to newegg and using the exact same components configure the exact same PC.I guarentee it will cost more than $500.00 less.And you get a wider selection of components to choose from at newegg.Why would newegg need to jack up the prices on the components you think there actually paying that price themselves.Hell no they themselves already added on there own small amount so they can make money to.Then PcAudioLabs buys there components from newegg and tack on there own small amount (which if you would go and look is not small at all)Plus newegg can offer special services like factory restore disks,2 year parts one year labor Warrentys Tweaking of OS for music production for a little more $.Not to mention they would of course charge for Assembling the Computer.Musicians don't do to each other what Places like MusicXPC,Sweetwater and PcAudioLabs is doing to there customers.Greedy money hungry corpret executives do.Really what the hell is wrong with places like newegg offering this service.Musicans get the same great computers at newegg prices and weed out the jerks that slap a buncha {censored} together and lable it a music Computer.Sorry dudes that's your opinion and this is mine.But I bet you MANY fellow MUSICANS (musicians being the keyword here.) don't wan't to learn a whole new field of stuff to get there songs down.and I know there is much more to recording than computers thats exactly why I don't wan't to learn how to build my own because there's already tons of things for musicans to practice focus and work on to improve there craft PEACE Juggalos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kevin Stone Posted February 14, 2006 Members Share Posted February 14, 2006 If you plan on using a pc to record music, then you'd do well to know how to build it, and troubleshoot the inevitable problems that will arise. If you can use a screwdriver and follow basic instructions, you can build a computer. I understand your frustration, but I really hope that newegg doesn't take your suggestions. The only result would be higher prices all around. In the world of business, companies mark up hardware, both for profit, and to offset other costs. Deal with it. If you want a plug and play music pc, you're going to pay a premium for it, due to the R&D that goes into guaranteeing compatibility, labor costs, tech support... At least, that's the theory, I built my own so I wouldn't know. If you don't want the hassle, buy a tape machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skibob Posted February 14, 2006 Members Share Posted February 14, 2006 Building a "music" computer isn't really as hard as some people make it sound. Just buy a barebones system and add the components and software you want. Most stuff now-a-days is pretty simple to put together. I bought a "Building A PC For Dummies" book and built my own. Saved LOTS of money doing it that way. There's no way your going to get the hardware, software, assembly, OS, install software, tweak software, warranty, tech support and shipping for Newegg component prices. Anyone who sells complete systems adds LOTS of markup. Dell, Gateway, HP, you name it. For any decent system from them it's at least $1000 without any music stuff. If Newegg did it they would too. So if you just want to make music you could buy a standalone recorder setup or find someone else to do your recording for you. But either way, in the long run it would probably be cheaper to pay for a "music" computer if you're not comfortable building your own. That's why people either pay the piper or learn to build their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skibob Posted February 14, 2006 Members Share Posted February 14, 2006 Or you could find a buddy who has a clue about computers and have him (or her) assemble it for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted February 14, 2006 Members Share Posted February 14, 2006 Well... first off. Try breaking your comments into something other than a total run on sentence.. us old guys have trouble reading a mass like that.. Second, I have been working on my computers since my first 8088 and am not a total idiot when it comes to computers.. But... I did as much research as I could on music forums to try to find what would be a good made-for-music computer that would not break the bank. I also started paying attention to computers for sale on my local Craigslist and in nickle ads, local computer shops, etc. Once I had a pretty good idea of what I wanted my computer to do, I called a guy that always had really good deals on computers for sale on Craigslist. I asked him if he would be interested in building me a custom computer. I ended up with a 2.7 gig Celeron D with one gig of ram, 450 watt quiet power supply, two 160 gig SATA drives and a Plextor CD - RW unit and a decent graphics card. $385.00. After six months it still works perfectly. Fast and quiet. No matter what you buy, it will be obsolete before you get it home. Figure out what your needs are, figure out what the payback on your investment will be, and make your purchase. I did a five song demo for a singer songwriter a week after getting my new computer.. It paid for the entire computer music system.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zkaudio Posted February 14, 2006 Members Share Posted February 14, 2006 I would go up from teh 4200 to at least the 4400 athlon x2. The 4200 and lower only have dual 512k caches I believe while the chips above this have a higher bus speed and dual 1mb caches... important specs for mixing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted February 14, 2006 Members Share Posted February 14, 2006 Well, I'm tempted to say that 490 dollars is NOT "almost" 724 dollars -- by ANY measure I can think of. Not even bloody close. Second, I did build my last desktop and it was a great experience -- but it did require some research -- and that was a more than a few years ago (I'm a laptopper these days most of the time) when there were far fewer critical decisions to be made. (Plus, I just lucked out a bit.) If YOU'VE ever run a business, maybe you're aware of the enormous costs that go into everyday operations, hiring employees, paying for materials, op expenses, insurance, workers comp, leases, utilities... NONE of those costs are trivial. In our free market system, vendors can price their goods at whatever price they think will sell. There's nothing inherently sinful about a big markup -- particularly if you've determined it's the only way you can stay in business. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with your idea -- except of course that I wouldn't trust the bozos at Sweetwater* to know what was up with a computer and I sure as hell wouldn't trust the bozos at NewEgg to know what was up with the extremely complicated audio aftermarket -- but I am troubled by the implications in your post with regard to the ethics of those high-end box makers. _____________ * Not saying there's anything evil about them. I'm just saying the people manning the phones are more or less the equivalent of the guys out on the floor at Guitar Center on Saturday afternoon, at least in my limited experience with Sweetwater. And I SERIOUSLY doubt that that's much different at other big retailers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted February 14, 2006 Moderators Share Posted February 14, 2006 Originally posted by Kevin Stone If you plan on using a pc to record music, then you'd do well to know how to build it This is so true. It is much easier than I thought. MUCH easier. Cheaper too, as he pointed out in his opening post. I recommend "Building a PC for Dummies." That $20 will make things go smoothly... like in a Saturday afternoon smooth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kiwiburger Posted February 14, 2006 Members Share Posted February 14, 2006 Shangrila - please learn how to use paragraphs. What you said is bloody hard on the eyes, and you will be alienating a lot of people who might be able to help you. See - it's not hard to do. Anyway - you seem to be picking on new egg because they are cheap. Buying from the cheapest vendor is usually a BIG mistake. They are cheap for a reason - they will be buying the cheapest deals they can, and offering the least service they possibly can. You run a big risk that they are equally cheap with their warranty and after-sales support. Ain't no way they are going to employ more skilled people to build custom PC's - and NOT PUT UP THE PRICES like everyone else. Get over it. Get another job if you have to - otherwise you will be asking the same questions in 18 months time. I didn't suggest your weren't a musician. But since you bring it up, many great musicians never touched a computer in their lifes. The point is - if you really want to be a computer musician, don't wait 18 months. Jump in - buy something, anything. Whatever you buy today would be a gleam in the eyes of somebody 18 months ago, and a boat anchor in 18 months time. It's not worth putting excess energy into disposable PC's. You said you wanted to be musician - or a computer tech? I have a bunch of IT certificates, which is helpful, but if it's music you are interested in, make some music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scapier Posted February 14, 2006 Members Share Posted February 14, 2006 Or you could buy a Mac. Sorry I have a pc and really have given it a college try. I've had it professionally assembled and tweaked and it doesn't hold a candle to a factory setup Mac. I'm going back after a couple more projects to justify the expense. Look at the thread on mac minis for a cheap alternative. Could you guys also spell check? Promise is with an 'e' not 'ss.' Spencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted February 15, 2006 Members Share Posted February 15, 2006 Originally posted by scapier Or you could buy a Mac. Uh oh, there goes this thread!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zkaudio Posted February 15, 2006 Members Share Posted February 15, 2006 unless you are goign to get teh quad core powermac that's out there right now... don't waste your time... i have EONS of computer engineering experience.. the current crop of amd chips will dessimate just about any mac (save the one mentioned above) Just remember, you are facing a company wide platform change in the near future. Once ALL the new apples are on Intel chips, the software for the powerpc chip will take a backseat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kiwiburger Posted February 15, 2006 Members Share Posted February 15, 2006 It's not just CPU speed. Things change all the time. Firewire 400 will be replaced by Firewire 800, etc, etc, etc, My point is that you can wait, and wait and study and shop around and wait and study and shop around ... it's a moving target, and you will never get the 'best' machine for more than 5 minutes. You just have to buy the best you can right now, otherwise you won't buy anything and still be asking the same questions in 6 months time. But I think the original issue is that this guy wanted bargain basement prices, with lots of custom assembly and support thrown in. Ain't going to happen. It's one thing to accuse corporations of being greedy. It's another thing to want to screw everyone for the cheapest possible bargain, and then expect a high level of service. It's two sides of the same greedy coin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kevin Stone Posted February 15, 2006 Members Share Posted February 15, 2006 Originally posted by Kiwiburger Anyway - you seem to be picking on new egg because they are cheap. Buying from the cheapest vendor is usually a BIG mistake. FWIW, I built my box from parts I got from newegg. No problems at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kiwiburger Posted February 15, 2006 Members Share Posted February 15, 2006 Sorry, I don't mean to bag newegg - I don't know them, wrong country and all that. It seems to me that this guy wants free computer building. It's a bit like getting the cheapest prices for all the materials for making a house. And then getting quotes from builders to build a house, and accusing them of being greedy for charging for their labour. Not really different. And not helping him get into computer music. Edit: ooops - forgot this is Phil's column and I should be more polite and less . Sorry everyone - forget this. As your were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Warhead Posted February 15, 2006 Members Share Posted February 15, 2006 I've had the same 2.4ghz P4 recording PC running for about 2.5 years now without a single crash. I could upgrade, but why? It's solid and never gets ill on me...and with 1GB of ram (didn't really notice a big jump over 512mb at all) it's about all I could ask for. I run Nuendo 2 with plenty of plugs...no issues. I've done live gigs with a Dell 2.2ghz Celeron into a 5400 rpm hard drive...using firewire devices through a $29 firewire card in the PCM slot...no problems at all. Pick a good pc and just start recording! They don't get old "that" quick. War Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Funkwave Posted February 15, 2006 Members Share Posted February 15, 2006 BTW guys, for some reason, some of you think that you have to have a "Music" computer. Not true. Even though I built my computer from scratch, I would be happy with a semi powerful machine from Dell or any reputable company. These companies that advertise "Music computers" make buyers think that they need a "Music computer", when in fact, all you really need to due is properly tweak some windows options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shangrila17 Posted February 15, 2006 Author Members Share Posted February 15, 2006 I do not wan't free computer building.I wan't to pay for the great tech-support that places like PcAudioLabs and ADKProAudio offer.I also wan't to pay for a decent warrenty that will keep me safe for a year or two.I also want to pay them to assemble it.I also wan't to pay them to tweak my OS for music production.But what I will not pay for is overly priced components that are the EXACT SAME! as places liek newegg I am not going to pay for a Sweetwater Sticker or an ADKProAudio Logo on my Machine.These company's are GREAT in every respect but there Price per component adn everyone knows it. This is A Fact. I configured myself a decently powerful PC at PcAudioLabs based around AMD Athlon X2. when I was finshed choosing all needed components the price came to$2255.00 I then Configured the exact same computer with the EXACT same components at newegg came to$1480.00 That's $750.00 more What the hell? That is called greed to me. Tech-Support,Decent Labor Warrenty,Assembly,Windows XP Tweaking.Those four things are great but I'm not gonna pay almost a thousand bux for it. BTW I don't wan't the best computer out there I know it won't hold a candle to whats coming out in years to came. Hell my needs arn't even that taxing to any computer. I just wan't a STABLE music computer at a FAIR price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kevin Stone Posted February 15, 2006 Members Share Posted February 15, 2006 Originally posted by Shangrila17 That's $750.00 more What the hell? That is called greed to me. Tech-Support,Decent Labor Warrenty,Assembly,Windows XP Tweaking.Those four things are great but I'm not gonna pay almost a thousand bux for it. God forbid somebody makes a decent living building and supporting a product that people want to buy. Yes, those things you listed are great, but it all costs money to provide, and it's nothing you can't get for free by doing it yourself and asking questions. You don't want to do it yourself and you don't want to pay what they're asking to do it for you. You can be lazy, or you can be cheap, but you can't be both. Decide. (I did, I'm cheap) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted February 15, 2006 Members Share Posted February 15, 2006 I just can't imagine why someone would spend a couple thousand bucks on a computer for music. Unless it's got some fancy water cooling or something.. I cannot figure out what in the heck costs so much.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members varakeef Posted February 15, 2006 Members Share Posted February 15, 2006 Originally posted by Funkwave These companies that advertise "Music computers" make buyers think that they need a "Music computer", when in fact, all you really need to due is properly tweak some windows options. Where's the company that advertises proper windows option tweaking for music makers then? What I don't want to get involved is to find a mysterious problem, roam thru various discussion boards to get various answers, try every maniacs advice, get tangled more and more etc. I want just service, not more iron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted February 15, 2006 Members Share Posted February 15, 2006 Why don't you find someone to do this stuff for you and then buy the components at New Egg? Or check out Sweetwater or Wave Digital (see an earlier link I provided), which may be several hundred more but provide technical support, warranties, and all the tweaking that you mention. There's other options out there. Personally, if I can find someone that actually provides decent tech support, I'm willing to pay for it. That's worth a lot right there. Otherwise, just suck it up, buy the components, put it together, and don't worry about it if you want cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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