XP Media Center Edition

[aerorockjax]

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I really would like to go the protools route (m audio 410 and m powered protools). Alternatively I was leaning towards either the presonus firebox or focusrite saffire with cubase. I guess i could buy a copy of xp pro or home off of ebay or something but I hate to spend needless money that could be better spend towards other gear I need. The motu traveler looks cool too and would have more inputs which would be usefull to have for the future.

[blue2blue]

It's a tough call.

Just because I've done well with my hardware (Mia, Motu 828mkII) and software (Tracktion, Sonar) doesn't mean that the gotchya won't pick you.

BUT, you COULD try flying solo (without official Digi support) and if it doesn't work, switch over to one of the other XPs.


I'm no Digi-apologist, by any means, but I think we have to cut these companies (Digi, Sweetwater, and others who won't support systems using WMCE) some slack. Until they've had a chance to thoroughly test an OS platform version, there really might be gotchyas that would get THEM in big trouble if they promised to support it prematurely.

________

THIS JUST IN -- a site JUST for tweaking WMCE:

www.tweakXP.com has expanded to include www.tweakVista.com and MCE.tweaks.com ... (although it looks like they're tweaking it for Media Center work... not stripping the MCE components out -- What's up with that?!? )

[IamBurnout]

It took me two weeks to get MCE to work for me.

No internet on that PC, no networking, etc.....just DAW.

Needed net framework update, SP1 update, and a ton of drivers.

Now it works like a charm....

Gateway w/ AMD Athlon 64 3500+, 1 Gig RAM, 80 gig primary, 200 gig secondary, 100 gig external, and {censored}ing Windows Media Center.

I'm running ntrack, live5, audacity, VSTs, VSTis, Behringer usb rotary, AW16g (for audio recording and master clock/transport), PMA5, MT32, Ensoniq Eprime keys, etc.

Running stable for 6 hours now, a new record.

I just hope some interesting musical ideas come around, now.
I've been thinking regedit instead of dorian mode for too long.

[blue2blue]

"Running stable for 6 hours now, a new record."


That would have been good on my old Win 3.1 '386 with its funky pre-Win3 BIOS which would go into BSOD if you winked at it... but that is NOT what I like to hear about any Windows from 98 on up.

If you're not kidding, there's something wrong (with hardware or software or both). It does sound like you're running a complex environment -- but I'm not babying this thing in any way (I'm on the internet with both major browsers, it's got a PCI sound card, a MOTU FW running off a PCI FW card, it's got the onboard SB clone enabled) and it's been [knock on wood ] entirely stable.

And... you know... EVEN as I say that I think, yeah, the install's, like, 2 weeks old... let's see how rock solid it is in 6 months when it's accumulated all the little cyberbarnacles, symbiotic parasites, and so forth that always seem to accumulate.

[IamBurnout]

I agree that 6 hours isn't much, but I've been pushing the hell out of this machine since the day I got it. All of the bundled crap that was imbeded (AOL, messenger, networking, office, word, etc.) took forever to completely eliminate.

Now I just need an upgraded video card, so I can move windows around without hiccups.

So far, I've been able to run 8 tracks of audio with plenty of effects...6 VSTi's, and Live running several loops, with FX...and the only problem has been that video card stalling.

I'll tell more after I work on someone else's project without any problems.

I avoided using a PC for recording for so long, because of these setup hassles, but I'm getting more efficiant with this setup now.

[blue2blue]

Hmm. I'm concerned about your optimization. (I know that's the last thing you wanted to hear. )

Define hiccups. Are they all the time? What's going on when they happen?


If we're talking about when your machine is under a heavy DAW workload, with a bunch of CPU-devouring plugs going, that's one thing. But if you just have a couple productivity apps and maybe some browser windows and a media player open and you're getting glitches in application or OS performance, there might well be something you can fix that will greatly improve your computing experience.



For future reference, I was able to keep my time spend optimizing this machine pretty in check. Not counting program installs I think I had the worst of this machine cleaned up in less than fifteen or twenty minutes (not counting the windows update -- basically we're talking about steps 2 and 3 below, which accounted for most of my optimization.)

Basically what I did:

for optimization tweaks. There's also an MCE specific one -- but it's all about using and optimizing the MCE components I just spent 15 minutes getting rid of! Who'd have ever thought anyone would use Windows Media Center for... a media center? Dang my hide!

[aerorockjax]

blue2blue, can you list the specific services and processes that are relating to media center to disable? I don't use media center or ever plan to. Even though I dont have a recording interface yet, theres no sense in wasting system resources on processes/services that i don't make use of.

Thanks.

[blue2blue]

I was thinking I ought to do that.

 

[EDIT: In addition to removing the Media Center Applications from the boot profile...] ere's what I unchecked in MSConfig (that was easily identifiable as a WMCE service and which -- on my machine -- have not had any bad consequences except I can't run the MCE application which I didn't want to anyhow...)

 

From MSConfig's Services tab:

 

Media Center Receiver

Media Center Scheduler

 

I also unchecked a couple of Creative Labs services. I have a built in SB chip on my mobo -- and it continues to work fine. I don't/haven't run any of Creative's entertainment-oriented apps, though I suspect they would probably still run okay.

 

There's a handy "hide all Microsoft Services" checkbox outside the services window which can help you zero in on third party stuff that you may or may not need.

 

Now, I did NOT go through the MS services with a fine tooth comb as I have in the past on other machines. And I do know there are some services I probably don't need and which I will likely go through and nuke later. That said, my load size is not much bigger on this machine than my laptop which I thoroughly pruned.

 

One thing I DO turn off is Windows Auto Update. That means I have to turn it back on in order to do the Windows online update (very important for security updates) but that's no biggie. About half the time I forget but the Windows update tells me it's turned off so, you know, I just turn it on and turn it off when I'm done.

 

I also turned off Windows Fax, per, if I recall a specific tip at musicXP.net.

 

Under Startup, I was able to uncheck everything but my Wi-Fi Wireless Configuration app (proprietary) and my MOTU driver (which I actually installed later).

 

On System.ini, Win.ini, and boot.ini I was able to uncheck all the items with no problems. Depending on your set up that may or may not be possible.

 

MSConfig, as you probably know, will pop back up on bootup after you make changes, which should give you a chance to undo anything that causes havoc. When you're satisfied everything is stable you can check (or uncheck, I forget) the appropriate box to tell it to not come up automatially after boot.

 

_______

 

And -- last but definitely NOT least -- I downloaded and installed Spybot and ran its diagnostics and "Immunization" (mostly for IE, which I use for some stuff and would probably still use all the time if it was a bit more secure).

 

Spybot has a registry checking utility that can find problems and conflicts in the registry (it found a bunch in mine, despite the fact this is a less than month old, fairly optimized machine) and --- WHOOPEE! -- it even found and fixed the file type highjacking that Quicktime Pro had somehow snuck past me -- even though, natch, I told QT not to associate with ANY file types except .mov files. Yet, whenever I tried to stream an mp3 off the web after installing QT Pro, the friggin thing popped up embedded in a browser window. I tried fixing that myself by going into Win's file associations, making sure WinAmp was set to "reclaim file type associations"... nothing worked -- UNTIL Spybot went through and found QT's highjacking of the files in the registry. All too typical of QT for Windows, of course. BIG PROPS to Spybot for finding and fixing this pernicious, thoroughly irritating QT behavior.

 

I also installed AdAware Personal Edition (free for personal use) to look for and nuke nuisanceware and tracking cookies.

[IamBurnout]

Originally posted by blue2blue Hmm. I'm concerned about your optimization. (I know that's the last thing you wanted to hear. ) Define hiccups. Are they all the time? What's going on when they happen?

By hiccups, I mean that...when I drag a window around the screen (VST, VSTi, etc.), while playing back, I get some stuttering of the audio output. As soon as I stop moving the window, it stops.

I have gone through all 25 (I think:) ) steps at musicxp.

What took so long to optimize, was the little bits that programs like AOL left in the registry, even after uninstalling the programs.

Have to wait on the vid card though. Son number two needed a bed, so my wife decided we should redecorate the boy's rooms.
Yipee, now I'm broke for two more weeks, and I have paint and carpeting supplies all over the second floor of the house.

Good thing the second floor of the garage is where all of my "toys" are. Latex paint smells funny!

[blue2blue]

Is it a PCI video card? Or integrated on the mobo or AGP or... what else do we have PCIe, yeah?

I was just looking at my IRQs and noticed my integrated video, integrated audio, and the PCIe root port are all on the same IRQ.

Back in the good ol' days, something like that would have been a blueprint for disaster but I guess we're mostly past that.


Still...

[IamBurnout]

It's the mobo video. I'm planning on getting a PCI card with better hardware accelleration.


BTW, thanks for the responses.

[aerorockjax]

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[thisllub]

The worst thing about Media Centre is the lack of technical documentation.


I spent far too many hours on the weekend trying to fix a MCE machine.

A friend bought an XBOX 360 and it worked for a while but wouldn't display video from his TV tuner.

Reinstalling the drivers for the card knocked out the network id the XBOX was reading.
After much pain and frustration reinstalling (upgrade) XP fixed the network but the card doesn't work.

I wouldn't like to try and make it work with an expensive sound card.

[blue2blue]

Sound interfaces seem to be child's play these days. I have 3 going, an Echo Mia in a PCI slot, the SoundBlaster integrated into the mobo, and a MOTU 828mkII over firewire and they all cohabit peacefully. (Uh... touch wood.)

But I know nothing about the 'media center' aspect of my WMCE box. It was essentially disconnected from the main OS within the first half hour.

I'm sure there's a big ol' black hole lurking around somewhere I'm bound to fall ink, but, really, working with WMCE on this machine as I described above, has, so far, been the smoothest computer setup I've had.

Of course, they've MOSTLY got easier over the years, anyhow -- but I was a little trepidatious, since I'd heard so many well-meaning warnings about Media Center Ed (sounds like the 2 unit class my school never offered us AV geeks).

But, then, for music, there's so much more help in the form of excellent optimization sites like MusicXP.net. (When I put together my first 8 channel DAW in '96, there was, like, nothing.)

You know, it always has to be said, others' mileage may vary.

[djufart]

I'm looking at the E510 on Dell's site now and was considering buying it. It appears to be a good box but from what I'm hearing you guys say, it would be better to have it come loaded with XP Home rather than the new Media Center?

Chesley

one more thing.. is the Pentium D 820 64 bit architecture?

[blue2blue]

I don't know if you can find it (XP Home) anymore on a Dell...

I wouldn't be too scared of WMCE. I think I gave a fairly detailed go-through (in several posts above) of making sure the MCE components don't interfere with anything.

My WMCE machine is pretty well as tweaked down as my XP Home SP1 machine and runs just as smooth. While it's true that I haven't worked on any really big music projects on it (I don't really DO really big music projects) I do have this plug in/VI jones which puts a lot of stress on my machines.

I'm perfectly satisfied with WMCE as I've experienced. (As always, YMMV.)

And -- let's face it -- if you buy a Dell, HP, or other major brand, you're going to spend at least a half hour or more going through, pulling out crapware/offerware and optimizing it using instructions from MusicXP.net (and possibly TweakXP.com)


________

The 820 D is a 64 bit chip. It's also a dual core chip -- but unlike the new Core Duo chips (64 bit vers of the CDs coming later this year) each core has its own L2 cache, which does not, according to the drill, offer the same info-sharing advantages of the the Core Duo's shared L2 chache.

One thing -- don't forget -- a lot of vendors sell 64 bit chips on machines with 32 bit OS's... and that's mostly a 'waste' of the chip's capablilities.

What does a 64 bit chip running in a 64 bit OS (XP 64, for instance) buy you right now? The primary benefit is the ability to run more RAM than XP's 4 GB limit. (Your mobo has to be ready for extra RAM, as well... 32 bit mobos often have had hardware support for less than the 4 GB.)

At this time, I THINK the only Windows DAW with a 64 bit OS version is Sonar (which also has a 64 bit audio engine that can be run with either 32 bit or 64 bit systems... it's more efficient on a 64 bit system).





You can read all about the 820 D here:

http://www.gdhardware.com/hardware/cpus/intel/dual_core/001.htm



PS... Eventually, according the Microsoft roadmap, we'll all be enouraged to switch to Vista, MS's new, much-delayed 64 bit OS.

Cynics may be forgiven for looking at Vista with a jaundiced eye, it seems to me, as it, at first blush, anyhow, offers little to justify the presumably onerous overhead burden increase -- except for a rescaling graphics engine which will apparently give us in Windows land the ability to emulate such previously Mac-only "goodies" as "the Swoosh" (the animated tornado effect when minimizing a window down on to the taskbar, uh, Dock) or Expose, the ability to show all your open windows as thumbnails... (I keep wondering what my typical 40 or 50 open windows will look like as miniatures... uh, is it this whitish-grey blob here or that bluish-white blog there?) Anyhow... THIS observer is very much not looking forward to 'expanding' Vistas...

[FuzzShifter]

I have formerly posted under the ID IamBurnout.

With that said....

I performed an experiment. I formatted all drives, and installed windows XP pro as my OS.

The only maximizing I performed was using windows classic view (my personal preference), and using 'no sounds' .

Installed my programs, plugs, and harware.....bingo!
No crashes, or glitches.

Although MCE may be workable, I have found XP pro to be much more stable, and easy.

My .02

[blue2blue]

Glad you got things straightened out.

[djufart]

just wanted to let you guys know that I recieved my new dell. I got the E510 and Blue was right, these machines are very, very quite. I'm very impressed!!! I too had to bend over to see if the light was on. wow!

[aerorockjax]

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[FatalVision]

Hello,
Blue 2 Blue, I have read your posts on windows xp media edition and recording and have found them very informative. I just bought a new dell laptop and had no idea that media edition was such a piece of crap. Anyway, I always used to do simple recording on my desktop with the build in sound card, but on the laptop its just not cutting it. Anyway, it was time for the jump into a good interface anyway. I was horrified to discover that there are so many problems with media edition. The firepod, which I was going to buy, has a warning on the presonus website stating that there are known problems with media edition and not to use it. This is very upsetting, I don't understand why it is such a crappy operating system. Anyway, I have been e-mailing companies to try and find out if there are known problems with their interfaces and media edition. I was specifically looking into either the MOTU traveler or ultralite, and was hoping that you could tell me if they are compatible with media edition. I have a dell inspiron e1505, dual core 1.83, 2 gigs ram, 100 gig 7200 rpm hd, and use nuendo as my primary recording program. I would really appreciate some help with these issues. I have read all the tips you suggested about optimizing the computer for recording by disabling things, etc, but If I get an interface that is not meant to work with media edition it all seems pointless and frustrating to me. I would really appreciate and help you could give me! Thank you!

[FatalVision]

Blue 2 Blue,

Thank you very much for your many posts on Windiws Media Edition. Hopefully you are still a part of this forum. I was wondering if you could be so kind as to make some sort of list of all the specific stuff you need to do to make MCE work properly. I know you mentioned several websites and I will have to check those out, but you seem to have a lot of experience with how to make media edition work properly with recording and I would be in your debt for your help. Thanks

[yoitsme]

I'm using a computer with Media Center edition an HP i got for $500 from Circuit City. Everything works perfectly. I did take off all the junk as well - freed up a bunch of memory.

Running Lynx L22, I88x, UAD-1, with cubase SX 3, tons of plugs and VSTi's all at 96 khz.

Orlando