How is Sonar for a recording DAW?

[rbm]

I was going to look at PTLE, but for cost and upgrade possibilities I decided to borrow my friends Sonar Professional CD that he has never even plugged in!

 

Does it work with a Mac, or should I use PC?

 

What type of hardware interface would you use on it if you wanted 8 mic/pre inputs and 8 1/4 mono inputs?

 

Is it a good program especially since I don't have to pay $600 for it?

[doug osborne]

It's difficult to compare a host-based system like PTLE with a native system like SONAR.

 

Your friend can't give away or sell his/her copy of SONAR, according to its licence agreement. It's up to you whether you want to continue using this in violation of the licence, but remember, there is no free lunch.

 

SONAR is only available for PC.

 

There are many great interfaces. The RME Fireface is one of the best, and MOTU and M-Audio are among many companies that make competitive units. With proper computer setup and usage, any of these can sound great and have rock-solid performance.

 

SONAR is a great tool. Objectively, it has more features, especially with MIDI, than PTLE. IMO (even if you pay for SONAR, SONAR with an appropriate interface will be a better value than PTLE, but you can make great recordings with either.

[rbm]

Originally posted by doug osborne It's difficult to compare a host-based system like PTLE with a native system like SONAR. Your friend can't give away or sell his/her copy of SONAR, according to its licence agreement. It's up to you whether you want to continue using this in violation of the licence, but remember, there is no free lunch. SONAR is only available for PC. There are many great interfaces. The RME Fireface is one of the best, and MOTU and M-Audio are among many companies that make competitive units. With proper computer setup and usage, any of these can sound great and have rock-solid performance. SONAR is a great tool. Objectively, it has more features, especially with MIDI, than PTLE. IMO (even if you pay for SONAR, SONAR with an appropriate interface will be a better value than PTLE, but you can make great recordings with either.

 

 

 

You mean even if he isn't using it then I can't use it? Does that apply to all of the guitars and amps he and I borrow from each other too?

[doug osborne]

Originally posted by rbm You mean even if he isn't using it then I can't use it? ...

 

That is my understanding, according to the EULA.

 

Cakewalk doesn't protect their software with a dongle or challenge/response installation scheme, and in exchange for this they don't allow reselling or any transfer of the license. I can't speak for them, I'm not a lawyer, etc., so contact them if you need an official explaination.

[Will Chen]

SONAR is great. Cakewalk has a long history of DAW development which shows in the flexibility of their products. The newest versions come with a 64 bit version making them forward compatible once that is the norm. Native VST support is great in the new version as well opening up some great free plugs as options.

 

Based on their license, no selling used and installed on 1 PC at a time. One thing to consider if you decide to use it long term despite the license prohibition, you will not be eligible for customer support (which I've only used once over the course of around 8 years of use of their products, this speaks to the quality of their products) nor their loyalty upgrade discounts (which I've used 3 times saving a good deal of money).

[DontLetMeDrown]

Originally posted by doug osborne That is my understanding, according to the EULA. Cakewalk doesn't protect their software with a dongle or challenge/response installation scheme, and in exchange for this they don't allow reselling or any transfer of the license. I can't speak for them, I'm not a lawyer, etc., so contact them if you need an official explaination.

 

Err, well...

 

If his friend has never installed it, most likely, he did NOT agree to the EULA-- So ALL IS GOOD BRUTHA.

 

BTW Doug, PTLE is native, just like Sonar.

 

Back to topic...

 

Sonar is great. I'm using Sonar 4. It is far from perfect-- I'm hoping v5 will alleviate some of the irritating problems I encounter. As far as "getting the job done", Sonar will do just fine. Sonar has implemented a lot of the editing features from PT (except "beat Detective":cry: ), so you should be able to accomplish whatever you need with it.

[doug osborne]

Originally posted by DontLetMeDrown ... BTW Doug, PTLE is native, just like Sonar. ...

 

You're right. But it is so tied to the hardware (whether Digi or M-Audio) that I lump LE with TDM PT as far as direct comparison with other software/hardware combinations.

[Will Chen]

Originally posted by gsHarmony I also love Sonar, but the native VST support is debatable. There are some really pissed off people over at the sonar forums. Their "Native support" really just means integrating the VST adapter into Sonar.

 

I'e heard this but haven't run into any issues as of yet. Appears to funtion fine for me. I was a Pro Audio user and used the early versions of the wrapper and things run a ton more smooth now than then (such as preset integrity and interface continuity).

[blue2blue]

Originally posted by rbm You mean even if he isn't using it then I can't use it? Does that apply to all of the guitars and amps he and I borrow from each other too?

 

Doug may be technically right but since it hasn't been installed I think you might well be able to consider it a 'virgin' package.

 

If your friend had registered it, then you might be stuck. But assuming it's a store bought version (as opposed to an "LE" giveaway which almost certainly can't be transferred under any circumstances) and if it had never been installed and registered, I suspect you would not only be unprosecutable but I think you would be more or less in the clear from the point of view of practical ethics.

 

[i also think that if you were really worried about it, you could contact Cakewalk and ask their permission to transfer a never-registered, never-used copy from the purchaser to you. That ought to have them scratching their heads.]

 

I guess I understand the thinking behind putting such restrictions in EULAs -- since there are those who find it convenient to ignore installations of software they're accidentally leaving behind on their machines when they sell some 'used' (or even 'never used') software to someone.

 

But the people who are going to comply with those rules ARE THE ONES YOU REALLY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT, anyway..

 

And everyone else will just use a crack/backdoor/cheat/workaround and steal what they're gonna...

 

 

It's a shame when publishers -- understandably troubled by piracy -- institute policies of dubious effectiveness which end up punishing 'good' consumers.

 

____________________

 

On Sonar... I like it. But I've been using it so long I probably don't have any perspective, anymore. PT has some things Sonar doesn't have or does some things better. BUT there are some 'modern necessities' that PT just plain doesn't have. Plug-in delay compensation being a big one.

 

That was one of those "how did we ever get along without it" features that a lot of us were beating on our own DAW publisher's citadel doors to get... years ago.

 

At least PT LE is finally getting an update from the miserly 32 track restriction.

 

 

Sonar has a lot of great features, a well-liked looping sub-environment with, I'm told, good integration with the main program, it has a lot of good MIDI features (though Cubase and Logic may edge it there, though I've heard it both ways), a lot of folks really like the, you should pardon the expression, "workflow," and, best of all at a price of free, it's a HELL of a deal. Go for it.

[wooden]

I wanted to like sonar when i saw the specs of the newest version, i wanted to seize the upgrade from the included sonar with my emu 1616m, but i didnt really like the interface, and that is the main factor for me... but speaking about features it is incredible.

[Will Chen]

Originally posted by wooden I wanted to like sonar when i saw the specs of the newest version, i wanted to seize the upgrade from the included sonar with my emu 1616m, but i didnt really like the interface, and that is the main factor for me... but speaking about features it is incredible.

 

Just for the sake of discussion, what about the interface boithered you?

Being a long time Cakewalk guy, I guess I'm used to where things are laid out. I played around with CUBASE prior to going the SONAR route and ended up going to SONAR because the interface is more or less the same but SONAR was more affordable, backwards compatible, with older projects I'd been working on, and had a better bundle.

[blue2blue]

Yeah... I also read a comment elsewhere from a user who was drawn to Sonar by some of the latest enhancements but was really caustic about the interface.

 

Like I said, I've probably been using Sonar/Cakewalk Pro Audio for too long to have any perspective -- and there ARE a few things I'd change or enhance, no question about it.

 

But the last time I looked over folks's shoulders at Pro Tools and Cubase, overall, things looked pretty similar.

 

Is it the little things?

[seaneldon]

i think sonar is a good piece of software. i haven't used version 5 but it's always gotten somewhat better with each release so it's probably just as great as 4 was. the producer edition will give you more than enough of your basic plugins to get started, compressors, reverbs, gates, equalizers, etc.

 

remember you'll need ins and outs for your computer. depending on how many you need, and whether you go firewire, usb, or pci, the price will vary. you can start by typing "interface" and "price" in the forum's search function and get a plethora of options.

[GZsound]

I read these Sonar comments with interest. For some strange reason I keep hoping to hear nothing but good because I apparently, deep down want to return to Cakewalk.

 

I started with Cakewalk on an 8088 with no hard drive, two 5 1/4 floppys and an amber monitor. It was so slow, the cursor couldn't keep up with the notes being played..

 

I kept with Cakewalk all the way up through Cakewalk Pro 9 and then the world ended for me and Cakewalk. I could never get the software to work properly.

 

I then made the horrible mistake of buying Cakewalk Pyro and threw it in the trash can within about four days.. Never looked back.

 

I really want to like Sonar... Just can't.

[Matt Hepworth]

Been using SONAR since version 1.0. Really been very pleased with its capabilities and workflow. One thing that's big to me is that I've been a Windows user since 3.1, and SONAR works like Windows works (please neither take, nor insert any sarcastic comments on that), right-click does the options, CTRL + drag equals copy, etc. Super easy for a Windows user to grasp. It's also one of the few apps that's Windows only, so, again, it really lends itself to people who like PC's.

 

I also am quite comfortable with Cubase, Nuendo, Pro Tools, and Live. Each has their certain strengths, but SONAR seems to do the most things in the way I want it to of any of the apps.

 

Download a demo and try it. Highly recommended.

[wooden]

Originally posted by wbcsound Just for the sake of discussion, what about the interface boithered you? Being a long time Cakewalk guy, I guess I'm used to where things are laid out. I played around with CUBASE prior to going the SONAR route and ended up going to SONAR because the interface is more or less the same but SONAR was more affordable, backwards compatible, with older projects I'd been working on, and had a better bundle.

 

Well i dont know, the colors, the layout... i dont really know, but everything seem more well laid out in cubase for me... and said FOR ME.

 

And i love sonar features, and i am using the one that comes with my emu 1616 ( i know its very limited) to see if i can get as familiar as with cubase, because sonar 5 is great, and i want to upgrade the the full version either sonar or cubase, but as you said sonar is a more complete bundle.

[blue2blue]

You can change the colors. (In S5, Options/Colors...) There are a number of 'theme' color sets.

 

 

 

You can also change a lot of the lay out aspects, as well; you can float or dock windows, move sections around and so on. Even the track info area is configurable and there are little buttons to hide/reveal different aspects of a channel (ie, FX, output, etc).

 

 

It's pretty flexible. I'm not saying you can get it precisely the way you want, but there are a lot of options.

 

cheers

 

 

PS to GZ... Yeah. I bought Pyro, too. It worked but it's not NEARLY as good as a lot of free programs. I use Deepburner (Free) now and, while it's not perfect, I like it better than anything else I've used (except maybe for the old CD-Architect... but the new version seems to refuse to work for me... I must finally be on the Sony blacklist )

[wooden]

Thats great to know... let me try...