Members Anna Log Posted April 13, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 13, 2006 Just because Ashlee use's auto tune does not mean that other music is less appreciated...in fact it is the exact opposite. Music is subjective, remember. I do not want to create hate and discontent here. I think the world, would, be a better place if we would just give eachother a break! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RedArchTop Posted April 13, 2006 Members Share Posted April 13, 2006 This whole discussion reminds me of how the Grand Ol' Opry originally wouldn't allow any sort of "electrified" instruments. Personally I think the Opry sucks either way.... but then, I hate all country music. I also think that as soon as your in "Pro Tools" you've gone straight to hell and who gives a {censored} what you auto tune to after that! Auto Tune yer lil brains out! It doesn't matter and nobody cares! When the recording is listened to, the only thing that matters is if anyone likes it...... Not whether some wannabe self appointed recording "expert" sanctions your methods. Do whatever you want,.. anyway you want! ..... as long as you make it somthing that somebody wants to hear. Make it interesting to listen to ...... make it entertaining! And don't forget to use some really cheap pre-amps so you can laugh in Flechers face and you'll be my guiding light! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted April 13, 2006 Members Share Posted April 13, 2006 Originally posted by RedArchTop This whole discussion reminds me of how the Grand Ol' Opry originally wouldn't allow any sort of "electrified" instruments.And don't forget to use some really cheap pre-amps so you can laugh in Flechers face and you'll be my guiding light! We're largely discussing HOW to use them, not whether to use them. Fletcher likes FMR equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted April 13, 2006 Members Share Posted April 13, 2006 I've not (intentionally) insulted anyone or belittled them, I've simply given my opinion on the subject. You don't have to like it, it's my opinion, not yours. However I am entitiled to express it here freely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Will Chen Posted April 13, 2006 Members Share Posted April 13, 2006 Never used Autotune. But several occasions I've manually pitch corrected vocals if their a little off. Also done that on a Dylan-esque harmonica during a pitch bend part that began just a tad bit flat. I don't have a problem with minor usage. Beyond autotune, a lot of stuff on the radio is tweaked far beyond reality from subharmonic note reenforcement, amp sims, replacement, etc... If you get down to it, there are 2 schools of thought as a producer/engineer. The purist which believes in capturing the performance as it exists in it's most natural form sans overdubs, compression, eq, etc; and the magician who's slight of hand on the boards creates the teen pop idols. Most of us fall somewhere in-between... BTW-There's a free pitch correct VST by GVST in the vein of autotune. I haven't had a chance to test it yet but you might give it a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted April 13, 2006 Moderators Share Posted April 13, 2006 Originally posted by where02190 I've not (intentionally) insulted anyone or belittled them, I've simply given my opinion on the subject. You don't have to like it, it's my opinion, not yours. However I am entitiled to express it here freely. Well... it's not the opinion I'm refering to, and of course you're entitled to express it. Oh nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted April 13, 2006 Members Share Posted April 13, 2006 Originally posted by wbcsound If you get down to it, there are 2 schools of thought as a producer/engineer. The purist which believes in capturing the performance as it exists in it's most natural form sans overdubs, compression, eq, etc; and the magician who's slight of hand on the boards creates the teen pop idols. Most of us fall somewhere in-between... I thoroughly enjoy wandering between these two extremes!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BIGD Posted April 14, 2006 Members Share Posted April 14, 2006 Originally posted by Kiwiburger I don't think there is anything intolerant or mis-understanding about suggesting you try to get it right at the source.A good singer shouldn't sing off pitch - there is usually a reason for it. The reason is usually to do with your monitor mix. If the backing track is too loud, or too bassey, they will sing off key. There are some very famous rock singers whose pitch is far from accurate. Some of Mick Jaggers stuff makes me cringe. Morissey's pitch is terrible. However, people are used to hearing autotuned in pitch singers now. The condescending answers get a bit tiring. If a person can't sing in pitch, they can't . Then, the producers have to designed to let the work go out like that, or auto tune it. Beating up the singer, trying to get every note right and sacrificing "feel" can be counterproductive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted April 14, 2006 Moderators Share Posted April 14, 2006 Originally posted by BIGD The condescending answers get a bit tiring. Now THAT is what I was trying to say! There's such valuable information to be had on these forums from some very knowledgeable folks who have really "been in the trenches". Having been in the trenches and possessing knowledge however, doesn't excuse a holier than thou attitude... I'm thankful for the info... and tired of some of the attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted April 14, 2006 Members Share Posted April 14, 2006 Originally posted by BIGD Beating up the singer, trying to get every note right and sacrificing "feel" can be counterproductive. Yup. But if you use AutoTune, you have to be careful of sacrificing "feel" also. For some singers, something may actually sound better if it's a little off. It may be better to just let it go. For another singer, that person may have turned in a killer performance and just had one clunker note - might be better to go ahead and just fix that one little note and be done with it! Just a matter of finding that balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted April 14, 2006 Moderators Share Posted April 14, 2006 Originally posted by UstadKhanAli Just a matter of finding that balance. Isn't that the truth. The kick needs low end! / NO, not that much low end! I'm tired and need a cup of coffee. / Oh my God I'm wired. How about a little verb? / It sounds like they're swimming in the Black Sea Can you fix that flat bit she sang? / Now she sounds like that Techno Pop song from a couple of years ago! Balance is a good word... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BIGD Posted April 14, 2006 Members Share Posted April 14, 2006 Originally posted by UstadKhanAli Yup. But if you use AutoTune, you have to be careful of sacrificing "feel" also. For some singers, something may actually sound better if it's a little off. It may be better to just let it go. For another singer, that person may have turned in a killer performance and just had one clunker note - might be better to go ahead and just fix that one little note and be done with it! Just a matter of finding that balance. The only way I use autotune is on individual notes. Why anyone would want to run an entire track through it....I don't know. Maybe some people think that the "autotune" sound...sounds good? I don't. I actually sometimes use the manaul pitch editor in my wave editor and just bring it down until it is bearable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BIGD Posted April 14, 2006 Members Share Posted April 14, 2006 Originally posted by Lee Knight Now THAT is what I was trying to say! There's such valuable information to be had on these forums from some very knowledgeable folks who have really "been in the trenches". Having been in the trenches and possessing knowledge however, doesn't excuse a holier than thou attitude...I'm thankful for the info... and tired of some of the attitude. I've found from being in studios over the last 15 years, that SOME engineers are the biggest dicks you will ever meet. They run the gamut from misognyist, ignorant, holier than thou, condescending..and everything else in between. Sometimes it's the cocaine..and sometimes they are just dicks. There are A LOT of project studio guys out there who have seen their incomes drop because of home recording and DAW's, and that is at least where some of the bitterness and attitude on these type of forums come from. They used to get the high school and college bands coming into do demos..now at least half of those bands are trying it themselves. More power to them. My band uses big studios to track drums..maybe bass, some fancy keyboards they might have that we don't. Everything else is done at home. There are MANY bands doing this now. I've played mixes to people and they say "this sounds better than that album that you recorded" at some mid-level studio. If I had a major label budget, would I do it this way? Probably not. But I don't. Then there's the whole "spend your $1000's on one piece of equipment" guys. That's another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted April 14, 2006 Members Share Posted April 14, 2006 I like the engineers who quietly do amazing work and make things sound as good as possible for the sake of the music and are genuinely interested in the music. Those people are my favorite! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BIGD Posted April 14, 2006 Members Share Posted April 14, 2006 Originally posted by UstadKhanAli I like the engineers who quietly do amazing work and make things sound as good as possible for the sake of the music and are genuinely interested in the music. Those people are my favorite! Referring to anyone we know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted April 14, 2006 Members Share Posted April 14, 2006 Originally posted by BIGD Referring to anyone we know? It's Fletcher, if you take out the "quietly" part! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kiwiburger Posted April 14, 2006 Members Share Posted April 14, 2006 People who have their head in the sands about the "Golden Age of Recording", before the evils of sampling, drum machines and pitch correction are completely ignoring how things were done back then. The amount of tape varispeed and tape editing tricks was amazing. There is really nothing "new" about the basic principles of autotune or drumagog. Digital has just made it a little easier to apply those principles, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted April 15, 2006 Members Share Posted April 15, 2006 I don't know that anyone said it was new, did they? It's just easier to do and hence has greater potential for "abuse". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members albert visick Posted April 15, 2006 Members Share Posted April 15, 2006 if the said issue is very minor, some times a little compression also helps.. kinda. for most indie / amateur artists, the recording studio's environment can be intimidating.. with the added pressure of having to perform under the clock. when we recorded my singer (a non pro, but with a great style and great heart) in a studio, for whatever reason she was not at her best. she tried her best, and as far as the passion and feel were concerned she delivered more than she was expected.. it was just that on some occasions she was unstable, pitch-wise. she was a solo artist who was basically helping me out to sing my songs - and due to both scheduling and budget, re-recording was not an option. thankfully, i have a modest homerecording system with half-decent gear including a micpre, and i was able to take some of the rehearsal takes that i recorded in my room, EQ them till they sounded kinda similar to the studio takes, and copy&pasted, albeit sparingly, where she missed notes. (the most problematic thing with the rehearsal takes was the sibilance.. oh how i wished i had recorded them a bit more seriously.. but i'm not going to open another can of worms here) i tried pitch correction software too, but in some cases the results were too "mechanical". so although it takes more time and efforts, i generally preferred using the "real" takes and patch them in places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paulskirocks Posted April 15, 2006 Members Share Posted April 15, 2006 Originally posted by Anna Log I am curious if anyone has an opinion on which outboard pitch correction device is best? wow... did you ever get you question answered??!! paulski for what it's worth, i wish ustadkhanali had a good pitch correction setup, cuz i can use all the help i can get! that is why my career is electrical contracting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted April 15, 2006 Members Share Posted April 15, 2006 And it's OUTBOARD pitch correction at that!!! And you can sing well without the pitch correction device, Paulskirocks!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paulskirocks Posted April 16, 2006 Members Share Posted April 16, 2006 well... how about phrase correction?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anna Log Posted April 17, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 17, 2006 Originally posted by where02190 No they should consider a career. If they cannot sing in tune, they don't have a career in music AFAIK. Tell that to Brittany... and K-fed! What the hell is AFAIK? Do you wanna hurt me er sumpfin? Freekin sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members albert visick Posted April 17, 2006 Members Share Posted April 17, 2006 as far as i know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paulskirocks Posted April 17, 2006 Members Share Posted April 17, 2006 why do you have to have a career in music to sing? music is from the soul, and we all have it... if we put on a cd we made of ourselves, that used pitch correction, and we enjoy it, then who cares? yes, i will be the first to pick apart the 'pros' who i think suck, but that has nothing to do with making music... if you like salt on your food, does that mean that you don't enjoy food because you had to add something to make it to your liking? paulski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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