What to buy with all this money...

[Jamplified]

Hey guys,

I am doing some upgrades on our studio, and I need some advice.

This is a partial list of what we already have:

DAW: Protools HD

Faders: Control 24

Mic: Rode NT2000

Chan Strip: Avalon 737

Monitors: Mackie HR824

 

Things already on my list include:

LA2A

1176

SSL E Signature Chan Strip

SSL G Stereo Buss Compressor

 

I want the upgrades to cover mics, pres, compressors, EQs, etc.

My budget is around $30,000

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

[DontLetMeDrown]

The way its written, looks like you have 1 mic, and 1 preamp? That's where I'd put the money on. I'd buy one of the compressors on your list and use the rest on some kick-ass mics and pres.

[Jamplified]

Thanks.

Can you name specific mics and pres that you would get?

[ebrecordings]

 

Originally posted by Jamplified Thanks. Can you name specific mics and pres that you would get?

 

AKG 414

Shure SM57

Audix I-5

 

the rest all depends on what kind of stuff you're recording

[Jamplified]

Thanks.

But I was thinking more along the lines of U-87, C12, C-800, Soundelux 251, etc.

[ebrecordings]

Originally posted by Jamplified Thanks. But I was thinking more along the lines of U-87, C12, C-800, Soundelux 251, etc.

i just listed some that i think are essential. but it sounds like you already know what you're after

[Jamplified]

I understand. I'm just thinking of a higher price range. Keep the suggestions coming please.

Thanks.

[ebrecordings]

Originally posted by Jamplified I understand. I'm just thinking of a higher price range. Keep the suggestions coming please. Thanks.

higher price doesn't always mean better mic. all depends on the application though

[Jamplified]

Understandable, but in this case...?

Would you pick a 414 over a C-800 or a C12?

What I'm really asking is... What are the best options?

[where02190]

There are no "best options" as it is all subjective. What is great for one engineer might suck for another. Big bucks mics doesn't guarantee you great quality every time. It is essential to understand what all these mics are capable of and experimenting until you find what you like and what works for you.

 

However all the best and most expensive gear in the world can't help you if you don't have the instincts of engineering, and the inborn talents. Some of the skills you can learn, but, like playing an instrument, if you don't possess the talent, all the training in the world won't help.

 

Having said that, along with expanding your mic and preamp selections, I'd put money (if you haven't already) into acoustic tuning of your control room, and additional monitoring systems.

[Jamplified]

Points taken.

I understand that, and that's why I pluralized mics, preamps, etc.

I know there won't be a single best piece of gear, but I'd like to have a few of the best. I want the options for my signal chain to be undisputably awesome (or as close to that as I can get).

 

The additional tuning of the control room is also in our plans, but just not on the aforementioned budget.

 

Thanks again for you opinions, and please keep them coming.

[ebrecordings]

Originally posted by Jamplified Understandable, but in this case...? Would you pick a 414 over a C-800 or a C12? What I'm really asking is... What are the best options?

honestly, i'd take a 414 over just about any condenser mic for what i do. i'd especially take it over the U-87

[Jamplified]

Ok.

What other mics, preamps, compressors, etc. would you buy if you were in my position?

[ebrecordings]

Originally posted by Jamplified Ok. What other mics, preamps, compressors, etc. would you buy if you were in my position?

you should check out Old School AUdio preamps. amazing sounding API type preamps. www.atlasproaudio.com has them. killer stuff

[seaneldon]

looks like the classic hiphop studio setup as of right now...

 

if you want to get into recording bands, or even if you simply want more options, you might want to investigate:

 

UPGRADING YOUR MONITORS IMMEDIATELY:

 

I know there's a million people in your situation who say the Mackies are the best monitors available. These are usually people who simply have never heard a real studio monitor in a real studio setting. Your speakers are muffly, pillowy garbage. Check out ADAM speakers. If you are in fact doing hiphop stuff, the S3As will blow your mind. Otherwise, Dynaudio makes the BM15As which sound good and translate well.

 

ribbon microphones. guitar amps and acoustic guitars, drums, horns, etc. can all benefit from a great ribbon mic. "darker" than your typical condenser, in 99% of cases. there are some newer ribbons that behave like condensers. crowley and tripp comes to mind for that. otherwise, there's Royer, AEA, Beyerdynamic, Coles, older RCA mics, and others. I use a stereo ribbon (Royer SF12) for drum overheads a lot lately.

 

dynamic microphones. Shure SM7, Sennheiser MD421 and MD441, Electro-Voice RE20, the newish Heil mics.

 

small diaphgragm condensers. depending on what kind of results you want from whatever sources you're recording, you might be into the Josephson line, maybe KM8x series Neumanns, and sometimes even as inexpensive as the Shure KSM141 or SM81. i normally use SDCs for drums and percussion, overheads, acoustic instruments, and general spot micing. try to read opinions from people who've actually used them in a session rather than someone who "heard it on a guitar once".

 

large diaphgragm mics...it already looks like you're looking at some of your options. this might be the area where you drop quite a few bills. Each one has it's sound. these will also be easiest to find info on, so i'll leave the research up to you.

 

mic preamps, as you've found by now, will make a huge difference. try to get one or two of each flavor you can imagine. maybe keep the avalon, and add stuff like (maybe not this exact list, but to give you an idea of what "variety" could be) some API 512s or even build a lunchbox out of all the 500 series preamps that people build now. old school audio, purple audio, a designs come to mind. all are different. maybe something like a groove tubes ViPRE which will happy play with many mics and sources thanks to it's variable impedance and slew rate. the DW Fearn VT1 is great and is probably one of my favorite mic pres ever for vocals. the Thermionic Culture Early Bird that I heard with our Brauner VM1-KHE sounded absolutely bananas, and is a little over $2k per channel. i've found the martech mss-10 to be good on a TALENTED vocalist who might need to sound more "real" than they do in the room. the gordon preamp system goes great with a stereo ribbon. the tonelux preamps are all around excellent and have a tilt eq filter. very cool.

 

compressors? now that i've taken out a very large portion of your budget, i'd buy a distressor before an LA2A just because it's way more versatile with several modes of compression. they're available with the "British Mod" and can be stereo linked. i also like the Chandler LTD2, older LA2As, and blackface Urei 1176s. If I compress while tracking, the compressor is hardly "on", and the VU's in gain reduction might dip like 1dB. i leave most of my compression for AFTER tracking.

 

EQs? DW Fearn VT4 is huge and expensive but really well made and incredible sounding. for the same price you could get two channels of Massive Passive by Manley, which is the EQ I've used most. Others that come to mind would be an API 550a or b depending on whether or not you want the extra band, and it'll fit nicely in your lunchbox with the 512. the great river stuff is great for EQ, and the empirical labs EQ is also quite useful.

 

you might want to get into some better converters, too, or maybe even buy an Apogee Big Ben or similar for master clock, which will in the end also improve your sound. i've already went on for too long, and i hope it was helpful, but take it with a grain of salt.

 

call mercenary audio semi immediately. they'll direct you through this a little better than i can. http://www.mercenary.com

[Lee Knight]

A friend has one of the newish U87's and for the life of me I can't get it to sound good on voice. It's nice as an OH and yet I still go for Octava 012's.

 

So unless it's one of the older variety (and no, I'm not up on the different models, sorry) I'd skip the 87. Now there was this 87 an old boss had that had that voice of God movie trailer thing going so if you find one those... well that's a different story.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

Originally posted by Jamplified Ok. What other mics, preamps, compressors, etc. would you buy if you were in my position?

 

 

57s sound great with a really good preamp. Try getting a couple of those. I'm sort of rediscovering how wonderful these mics are after putting them through my Portico. Sound really good. Just because something's cheap doesn't mean it sucks.

 

Brauners, Soundelux 251, Royers, Coles, RCA ribbons, Earthworks are supposed to be all good and worth checking out. I have a Lawson L251 which I really love.

 

ADAM S3A monitors are mind-blowing. If I only had the budget....they're really really nice. If I had the budget, I would not hesitate in getting these.

 

I like Distressors personally, but have less experience with LA-2As, so I can't comment on those, although I doubt you can go wrong with 'em.

 

The only truly "high-end" preamp I own is the Rupert Neve Portico, which I absolutely love. It's gotten rave reviews, and may be worth checking out. Obviously, there's a ton of other great mic preamps out there, but this is the one I am most familiar with so far.

 

Tuning the room makes such a huge difference...makes it sound like you've gotten much nicer monitors (or makes your room that you record in sound much nicer, depending on your application).

 

I have Apogee Rosetta 800s and am absolutely thrilled with 'em. Great bang for the buck. No, they're not cheap, but the quality for what you get is very very good.

[DontLetMeDrown]

 

Originally posted by Jamplified Ok. What other mics, preamps, compressors, etc. would you buy if you were in my position?

 

 

What position? You haven't even told us what you hope to accomplish. You want to record bands? Rappers? What types of music specifically? Give us more info.

[Jamplified]

We record mostly vocals (hip-hop, R&B, Gospel, whatever comes through the door), but we also record quite a bit of drums. Our drum mics are fine; I just need some new overhead mics.

 

 

I'm loving these suggestions, keep em coming.

By the way, we have a few 57s already.

 

This is what my list looks like now, thanks to you guys

Converters: - Apogee Rosetta 200 AD/DA $1800

Pres: - SSL E Signature Channel Strip $3885, Focusrite Liquid Channel $3300, Groove Tubes ViPre $2800, Manley VoxBox $3600

Compressors: - UA 1176 $1800, Distressor EL8SX $3000, SSL G Series (Stereo Buss) Compressor $3515

Mics: - AKG C414 BXL2 $1000, U87 $2900, Soundelux 251 $4800, Sony C-800G $6700, AKG C12 VR $5000

 

Monitors: - Dynaudio BM15A (pair) $2600

Headphones: - AKG K171S

Plugins: - Waves SSL Plugins $1500

 

I realize that some things are kinda duplicated on it, but I just haven't decided between the options yet.

 

If you think anything should be added to (or subtracted from) the list, please let me know. Thanks guys.

[EngineGuitarist]

Originally posted by Jamplified We record mostly vocals (hip-hop, R&B, Gospel, whatever comes through the door), but we also record quite a bit of drums. Our drum mics are fine; I just need some new overhead mics. I'm loving these suggestions, keep em coming. By the way, we have a few 57s already. This is what my list looks like now, thanks to you guys Converters: - Apogee Rosetta 200 AD/DA $1800 Pres: - SSL E Signature Channel Strip $3885, Focusrite Liquid Channel $3300, Groove Tubes ViPre $2800, Manley VoxBox $3600 Compressors: - UA 1176 $1800, Distressor EL8SX $3000, SSL G Series (Stereo Buss) Compressor $3515 Mics: - AKG C414 BXL2 $1000, U87 $2900, Soundelux 251 $4800, Sony C-800G $6700, AKG C12 VR $5000 Monitors: - Dynaudio BM15A (pair) $2600 Headphones: - AKG K171S Plugins: - Waves SSL Plugins $1500 I realize that some things are kinda duplicated on it, but I just haven't decided between the options yet. If you think anything should be added to (or subtracted from) the list, please let me know. Thanks guys.

 

I'd switch out the apogee for some Lavry Blue AD/DA converters ($2500). Id completely scrap the liquid channel. For compressors I'd go for an LA-2A over the 1176, but if you can afford both, get both. I love me some distressors and the g bus compressor. Monitors would be the ADAM S3A's, but hey we all have different opinions when it comes to monitors.

 

with mics you say you want something for overheads on drums as well but you dont have any pair's of mics listed. sure you could do mono but you said "overheads" meaning not just 1. you could do it with different mics but thats not the "usual" way. 414's are nice for OH and would definitely be the cheapest option. Also, i'd scrap the C12VR and get a new Telefunken USA U47 (about $7000). and yeah, if you're doing hip-hop you should have a U87, its like the frickin standard hip hop vocal mic with the C-800 a close second.

[Jamplified]

Thanks.

I'll look into those converters.

 

I don't have any pairs in the list because I haven't really thought hard about those yet. Still looking through the options on the OHs.

What else would you use for OHs apart from the 414s? I'll put a pair of those in the list for now.

 

And what's wrong with the Liquid channel? I haven't heard anything bad about them.

Also, why would you scrap the C12??

 

This is the current list, still open to changes:

 

Converters: - Apogee Rosetta 200 AD/DA $1800

Pres: - SSL E Signature Channel Strip $3885, Focusrite Liquid Channel $3300, Groove Tubes ViPre $2800, Manley VoxBox $3600

Compressors: - UA LA2A $2900, UA 1176 $1800, Distressor EL8SX $3000, SSL G Series (Stereo Buss) Compressor $3515

Mics: - 2 x AKG C414 BXL2 $2000, U87 $2900, Soundelux 251 $4800, Sony C-800G $6700, AKG C12 VR $5000, Telefunken U47 $7500

 

Monitors: - Dynaudio BM15A (pair) $2600

Headphones: - AKG K171S

Plugins: - Waves SSL Plugins $1500

[seaneldon]

just don't walk into buying a C12VR because you think it has anything to do with a vintage C12. AKG is in fact calling the capsule the CK12, which is confusing because it is a completely different capsule from the original. not even close enough to warrant an "A" or "B" at the end. then there's some ridiculous changes to other components inside the mic. the transformer is 100% different, the tube biasing is different, and the power supply has a fixed low cut filter in it. it is not a C12 by any means. is it a decent mic? sure. is it worth all of that money? {censored} no. if you want a C12, buy a real one from Vintage King or somewhere like that, or even call up Telefunken USA and ask them about their ELA M12 and why it's a superior microphone to the AKG "reissue".

[seaneldon]

to add to that, i understand you have a certain client-expectation to fill with some of the gear, but i've found all of the SSL "signature" strips to be as not-so-hot sounding as an SSL console (i'm not alone here). prime example of paying for a name brand, i've heard $1600-2000 strips that sound "better" with more mics on more sources than any of the X-SSL stuff.

 

now take something like a thermionic culture early bird, which is two channels of preamps and fixed frequency 3 band EQ, which is a little over $4k. not only will you have a superior sounding unit than our infamous english console conglomorates, but you've got two matched channels for your hopefully matched stereo pair of overhead mics. and this is a company that's actually WORTH the money they're asking for, mainly because no one's ever {censored}ing heard of them.

 

to each his own, just trying to shed some light. it's your money.

[EngineGuitarist]

 

Originally posted by Jamplified Thanks. I'll look into those converters. What else would you use for OHs apart from the 414s? I'll put a pair of those in the list for now. And what's wrong with the Liquid channel? I haven't heard anything bad about them. Also, why would you scrap the C12??

 

 

definitely do check out the converters. While you're at it check out the UA 2192 also (about $2900).

 

As for the liquid channel, i havent ever heard anything good about it. other than its a great way to waste time trying 100 different pre/compressors configurations and not like any of them. everyone has an opinion and im not saying im right, but i definitely would not buy one.

 

I think seaneldon covered why the C12VR would be scrapped. its a different beast with an unjust price if you ask me.

 

for overheads a pair of U87's are nice. a pair of the new telefunken U47's are nicer tho. thats what i use and i love them. wonderful mics. i've never tried a soundelux 251 but i bet sound pretty nice on a drum kit. honestly, when in this high price range almost everything sounds great for OH. i think it then becomes more of a preference thing rather than a certain mic being obviously superior.

 

but a pair of 414's are a good thing to have. great on piano, drums, and acoustic gtr. It can work for other things but rarely does for me.

[Jamplified]

Thanks.

Points taken on both posts.

I think you'll agree with me when I say the following:

I understand that some of the not-so-famous gear you are mentioning may sound better than some of the name-brand gear I'm looking at, but I have to make sure that my equipment list turns the ARTISTS' and label execs' heads. Mosts artists don't have a clue about what we're talking about on here, but they do know names like SSL, Neve, LA2A, etc. and they associate those names with quality.

Its not something that I like, but just something that we all know to be true. I can guarantee that I will have a hard time convincing them that anything sounds better than something named SSL, and I really don't want that hassle.

All this money being spent on gear has to be spent on things that will bring in clients, and ultimately pay for themselves. All I'm really saying is... I have to get the clients in the door FIRST, then second I can impress them with the awesome sound.

 

I've never used the 414s on OHs, but I've used the U87s and I like those for that. I don't think we can do two of the U47s yet.

 

This is the list now:

Converters: - Apogee Rosetta 200 AD/DA $1800, or UA 2192 $2800

Pres: - SSL E Signature Channel Strip $3885, Groove Tubes ViPre $2800, Manley VoxBox $3600

Compressors: - UA LA2A $2900, UA 1176 $1800, Distressor EL8SX $3000, SSL G Series (Stereo Buss) Compressor $3515

Mics: - 2 x AKG C414 BXL2 $2000, 2 x U87 $5800, Sony C-800G $6700, Soundelux 251 $4800, Telefunken U47 $7500

 

Still loving the suggestions, keep em coming...

Also still looking for another good (and recognizable ) dual channel pre for the OHs.