Members brian123 Posted June 3, 2006 Members Share Posted June 3, 2006 I have heard that it is fairly easily to find a sweetspot on an speaker with the Extreme islolation headphones. Do I put the mic in the middle of cone and move it around listen for the loudest amount of hiss coming thru headphones ,while not touching or playing the guitar ? When I find the loudest hiss coming thru the headphones thats a sweetspot. Or should I strap my guitar on me and while I play a song on my guitar ,I move the mic around till I find a sweetspot. This 2nd option is very hard for me to do hard. I can't do both of these things at same time. Can somebody explain the steps to take to find a sweetspot on a guitar amp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The_Idiom Posted June 4, 2006 Members Share Posted June 4, 2006 I've been told by a few great producers to use the hiss method I;ve never used it, I usually just move a mic around untill it or they sound best Brandon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted June 4, 2006 Members Share Posted June 4, 2006 I believe the method is the spot where the hiss is the fullest. I always have someone play and move the mic around, but I also recognize that this can be very impractical if you're only one person!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members halljams Posted June 4, 2006 Members Share Posted June 4, 2006 It depends on the mic you are using, the sound of the speaker and the sound you want to get for the instrument.If you are using a ribbon you may want the center of the cone. If you are using a 57 you may want more edge.Is it a lead track or a rhythm track? Should it sit out front or blend in etc. Try pulling the mic back a foot, it doesn't always sound best rammed into the grill cloth.Also consider the proximity effect of the mic. rather than cut a bunch of bottom in the mix you may be better to record without the proximity that micing close will give you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blas Posted June 5, 2006 Members Share Posted June 5, 2006 What? If it's for rhythm use....Cut the bull{censored}, use your ear. Plug one ear and use the other to find the "spot" that sounds best for what you are looking/listening for. Period. If it sounds good to the ear, then guess what...it'll sound good to the mic right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members halljams Posted June 5, 2006 Members Share Posted June 5, 2006 Originally posted by blas What? If it's for rhythm use....Cut the bull{censored}, use your ear. Sorry, the bull{censored} is...?God there are a lot of obnoxious little {censored}s roaming these forums.Sorry your scope and perspective are limited to such a narrow degree. If you had any clue at all, you would realize that cutting tracks with "where they will end up in the mix" in mind, is the best approach to getting good tracks that blend and mix well. If you cut a crunchy rhythm guitar that plays under the vocal with a 57 stuck in the center of the cone, chances are your vocal will get masked.Do you know what masking is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted June 5, 2006 Members Share Posted June 5, 2006 I read an interview with some big producer who had a simple method. Plug a guitar cable into the amp. Turn on the amp, and turn it up a bit. Place the other end of the cable between your thumb and finger to make the amp hum. Get down on your knees and listen to where the hum is the loudest... That's your sweet spot. Works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted June 5, 2006 Members Share Posted June 5, 2006 Originally posted by halljams God there are a lot of obnoxious little {censored}s roaming these forums. You've noticed, eh? GZSound's suggestion is the one I was trying to think of, but I could only think of half of it. At any rate, where it's fullest is usually considered the sweet spot. But even with that in mind, it's beneficial to move that mic around to best support what the particular song needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zooey Posted June 6, 2006 Members Share Posted June 6, 2006 The hiss method can't tell you what guitar tone works best in the context of the other instruments. It can't tell you if on axis works better than off, whether you should closer to the edge or the center of the cone, or which microphone to use. The only thing that can accomplish all of these things is monitoring the signal from the amp in the context of the mix, isolated from the sound in the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blas Posted June 6, 2006 Members Share Posted June 6, 2006 GZ, that in essense is the trick. Your ears will tell you, and let that be the judge. After 35 years making a living at it, the ears are the basis of what I do (or should be). Where something sits in "the mix" is a whole different issue. You ask 'sweet spot', you get 'sweet spot'.Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members daklander Posted June 6, 2006 Members Share Posted June 6, 2006 Originally posted by GZsound I read an interview with some big producer who had a simple method. Plug a guitar cable into the amp. Turn on the amp, and turn it up a bit. Place the other end of the cable between your thumb and finger to make the amp hum. Get down on your knees and listen to where the hum is the loudest... That's your sweet spot. Works for me. Makee sure there's a good ground 'er yer in for a ZZZZZZAPrise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted June 6, 2006 Members Share Posted June 6, 2006 Originally posted by Zooey The hiss method can't tell you what guitar tone works best in the context of the other instruments. It can't tell you if on axis works better than off, whether you should closer to the edge or the center of the cone, or which microphone to use. The only thing that can accomplish all of these things is monitoring the signal from the amp in the context of the mix, isolated from the sound in the room. Right, but the question is about finding the sweet spot on a speaker, which serves as a starting point. I think everyone knows that after that, there are still a lot of factors that affect the sound, including on or off-axis, further adjustments in mic placement, use of a room mic or second mic, choice of mic and mic pre, adjustments of tone from the amp or guitar, and other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted June 6, 2006 Members Share Posted June 6, 2006 Place mic in front of speaker. Move til it sounds good. Press record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted June 6, 2006 Members Share Posted June 6, 2006 Yeah.. I'm sorry I didn't go far enough in my explanation of how to find the sweet spot.. I should have added the obvious: 1. Find the sweet spot using the technique described above. 2. Make sure you have a guitar. 3. Make sure you have a guitar cord connected to the guitar. 4. Make sure the sound you want is coming out of the speaker. 5. Make sure you move the mic around to see if you like another position better. This step requires a mic. 6. Hit "record".. 7. Oh.. I forgot. Make sure your guitar amp is turned on. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members papamaverick Posted June 6, 2006 Members Share Posted June 6, 2006 Best analogy I heard was from Michael Stavrou (AIR studios) in his book "Mixing with your mind". A microphone is like an eye dropper, not a camera. Your camera will see the big picture, but a microphone only samples a VERY small space (the size of the capsule, usually an inch at most). The recommendation of "move the mic around to where it sounds good" always frustrated me until I heard that analogy. I usually seperate the task into two dimensions (1) Find the desired tonal balance you're looking for by moving the mic around in two dimensions (height/side-to-side) and mic axis (from on axis all the way to 90-degrees off axis). You can do this with broadband noise (pink noise or the aforementioned guitar cable buzz) or with the actual guitar sound. Stavrou labels this the "right piece of air" - which sounds weird at first but really makes sense. (2) Find the desired distance from the amp. Two things to keep in mind with this one - all frequencies that come from the amp "bloom" at different distances. By moving the mic towards/away from the amp (on the imaginary line that connects the center of the speaker with the mic position from (1) above) you can control relative phase cancellations. Try to find a spot where all the different frequency ranges converge - the "tip of the flame" as Stavrou calls it. (Slipperman from the Marsh refers to something similar as "low-end bloom"). The near/far dimension also controls a large degree of the direct/reflected sound. In small spaces with bad acoustics (bedrooms) you might be limited by a boxy-sounding room. One last tip - try turning the microphone slightly farther off-axis to get a somewhat "dull" sound in your headphones/monitors. Then when you record, be generous with adding HF shelving. This will restore the high frequencies you were missing by going off-axis, but simultaneously increase the sensations of "air" moving past the microphone. Also don't be afraid of cutting ruthlessly at any of several points bove 8kHz on distorted guitar. Lots of "fizzy" crap up there you don't need if you're going for a real ballsy tone. No rules. Hope that helps you save some timeDave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Warhead Posted June 7, 2006 Members Share Posted June 7, 2006 Originally posted by Zooey The hiss method can't tell you what guitar tone works best in the context of the other instruments. It can't tell you if on axis works better than off, whether you should closer to the edge or the center of the cone, or which microphone to use. The only thing that can accomplish all of these things is monitoring the signal from the amp in the context of the mix, isolated from the sound in the room. In the mix, that's all that matters. Listen in the mix, if it's not working start adjusting things at the source / mic. War Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted June 7, 2006 Members Share Posted June 7, 2006 Originally posted by Warhead In the mix, that's all that matters. Listen in the mix, if it's not working start adjusting things at the source / mic. War Right, but the question is about finding the sweet spot on a speaker, which serves as a starting point. I think everyone knows that after that, there are still a lot of factors that affect the sound, including on or off-axis, further adjustments in mic placement, use of a room mic or second mic, choice of mic and mic pre, adjustments of tone from the amp or guitar, and other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members VSpaceBoy Posted June 7, 2006 Members Share Posted June 7, 2006 I thought that checking hiss is meant to check phase problems when stereo micing. There is no way that finding the loudest hiss will mean best tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zooey Posted June 7, 2006 Members Share Posted June 7, 2006 Originally posted by VSpaceBoy I thought that checking hiss is meant to check phase problems when stereo micing. There is no way that finding the loudest hiss will mean best tone. No one said it was the best tone. It's the "sweetest" dude. Get with the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted June 7, 2006 Members Share Posted June 7, 2006 Originally posted by VSpaceBoy I thought that checking hiss is meant to check phase problems when stereo micing. There is no way that finding the loudest hiss will mean best tone. Why not? It's a starting point. It's a way to figure out how the idiosyncracies of each speaker, find the spot where there appears to be the warmest, fullest sound, and then go from there *without* needing someone to play. If you are micing yourself on guitar, this is especially valuable. And again, it's a starting point, so from there, you can adjust accordingly (change mic, mic position, mic preamp, sound on amp, yadda yadda yadda). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Warhead Posted June 8, 2006 Members Share Posted June 8, 2006 Well when it comes right down to it, I typically throw a ribbon mic about 6" out give or take a couple inches, and point it dead center. Then I have the player play "in the mix" and that tells me if I need to attenuate the high end a bit. If I do, then I start pointing it more towards the outer edge of the speaker and away from the center. Sometimes I need more or less room sound, so a little back and forth action is of course required. Rinse and repeat. Ribbons tend to give you more of what you need on guitar cabs anyhow, and none of that tizzy high end {censored} that you just can't EQ out later. The sweet spot on a speaker is the spot that sounds best in the mix. What it sounds like solo'd is not relevant. War Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members daklander Posted June 8, 2006 Members Share Posted June 8, 2006 MARK,You neglected to mention the amp also has to be plugged into an outlet that has electrical power and the amp is switched on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted June 9, 2006 Members Share Posted June 9, 2006 Originally posted by daklander MARK,You neglected to mention the amp also has to be plugged into an outlet that has electrical power and the amp is switched on. Damn.. I always leave SOMETHING out of my suggestions.. Thanks, I apologize for not stating the obvious.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zooey Posted June 9, 2006 Members Share Posted June 9, 2006 Originally posted by UstadKhanAli If you are micing yourself on guitar, this is especially valuable. One thing I do agree with is that it is nearly impossible to position the guitar mic when you're the guy with the guitar hanging around his neck. In my small project studio, I get around this by splitting off the guitar and getting a DI track at the same time I'm recording the amp. If my first attempt at placement is off, I reamp the dry signal and place the mic without a guitar slung around my neck. This has easily improved my miced amp tone 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted June 9, 2006 Members Share Posted June 9, 2006 Agreed. The thing is to get a cool starting position, and this is one technique for doing it. I use it a little. Since I'm micing myself something like 70% of the time, I generally know what to do with my amp. But with someone else's amp, it's nice to know where the "sweet spot" may be, use that as a starting point, and adjust accordingly until it sounds the best it can for that song. And that can differ greatly, but at least you have one possible starting position and know a little bit about the speaker already. Micing a cabinet, quite frankly, ain't rocket science, and it's fairly simple to get a good tone just by slapping a couple of mics up. Getting a great tone may require a little bit more tweaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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