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We're going to record another demo next week--any advice after hearing the first one?


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Ok, so I'm in a three month old band and we recorded the first three songs we wrote to book shows as quickly as we could. Well, much like we predicted, they're not as representative of our sound as we thought they'd be at the time. We have some stuff that we think might better catch the ear of some upper-tier clubs and opening slots we're trying to get into...

 

...so it's been decided that we're doing three more songs next week.

 

If I'm going to do it, I might as well try to improve on the previous session, so I thought I might seek some objective ears. Keep in mind, I have some serious equipment limitations and I'm kind of a hack but anything you could add while I'm preparing would be very helpful...

 

You can listen here...

 

I only have one mono track in at a time available to me. My only available preamps are off of a B**ringer mixer. My mic selection is pretty solid...

 

Drums: Audix D6 (kick), SM57 (snare), Audix gooseneck condenser (rack tom), SM58 (floor tom), AT3035 (room)

 

Bass: DI (from bass amp), SM57 (close mic)--submixed to one track.

 

Guitars: SM57 against the grill of a Twin Reverb and a Marshall JMP.

 

Vox: AT3035 (pop screen was a speaker grill--looked hilarious)

 

Same room, same musicians, same equipment...

 

 

Like I said, equipment limitations. Everything being recorded must be submixed through that B**ringer, but it there anything that I'm REALLY missing? Anything you want to hear more of? Less? Should I really try to acquire one decent pre? I've been meaning to for years, but I don't really record a whole lot...

 

I'd appreciate any help...

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Kudos, a very good job overall for a first effort on limited gear. Sometimes being limited forces creativity, and in this case it's well done.

 

Watch your low end, especially the bass. It's pretty nonexsistant on small speakers, indicating a potential acoustic issue in your control room. Could also be phase issues due to the time lag between the DI and mic'd track. Did you time align them before mixing? I find this to be essential, as the mic on the speaker will always be a few ms behind the DI, and need to be nudged back. Also make sure they are in phase with eachother, which will be fairly obvious when you look a them to align them.

 

The hats seem a bit upfront for me, but that's more personal taste. The kick drum has that sampled D-6 sound I cannot stand but, again personal taste.

 

Overall a very nice job. Best of luck on the next sessions.

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Indeed very nice job :)

 

My only advice would be to maybe use the SM57 from the bass on the bottom of the snare on numbers like the demo 2 song to enhance ghost notes abit. But thats of course up to the taste of your liking.

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Originally posted by where02190

Kudos, a very good job overall for a first effort on limited gear. Sometimes being limited forces creativity, and in this case it's well done.


Watch your low end, especially the bass. It's pretty nonexsistant on small speakers, indicating a potential acoustic issue in your control room. Could also be phase issues due to the time lag between the DI and mic'd track. Did you time align them before mixing? I find this to be essential, as the mic on the speaker will always be a few ms behind the DI, and need to be nudged back. Also make sure they are in phase with eachother, which will be fairly obvious when you look a them to align them.


The hats seem a bit upfront for me, but that's more personal taste. The kick drum has that sampled D-6 sound I cannot stand but, again personal taste.


Overall a very nice job. Best of luck on the next sessions.

 

 

I really appreciate the listens...

 

Bass is my first area of concern as I've gotten that "small speaker" problem quite a bit. It really "disappears" on your system? I might be ditching the DI then. I only kept it because it didn't seem like it was killing anything while creating the submix...

 

There are no overheads or hihat mic on the drums, just the room mic. Those damned hihats are the loudest things I've ever encountered. They're a set of 13" dark K's and they will creep their way into every microphone while recording. Cut through great live though...

 

I know what you're saying about the D6. I love it on dense rock songs, but it's a little overpowering on a sparser mix. I wish I had an MD421 or M88 for that purpose...

 

Again thanks for the spin...

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Originally posted by MortenDK

Indeed very nice job
:)

My only advice would be to maybe use the SM57 from the bass on the bottom of the snare on numbers like the demo 2 song to enhance ghost notes abit. But thats of course up to the taste of your liking.

 

 

I sppreciate that. I actually found another long, lost SM57 the other day that could come in handy. I worry about my inability to align the phase of a bottom mic, however. If I had that Little Labs unit or, hell, even a polarity switch to try, I would. Maybe I could keep the mic pointed straight as opposed to straight up...?

 

Thanks...

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Originally posted by alcohol

There's a Sticky thread above called "Is your mix any good" where this thread should be moved to.

 

 

How's it going, newb? I was a long time contributor to the recording forum here long before you arrived and I apologize for not picking that thread out of the ten seperate stickies.

 

In the old days, forum memebers would kindly critique mixes and not post snide bull{censored} like that in someone's post.

 

Take care...

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Brian, Ryan, Brendan, Brandon,

 

Your names are all like one name, sort of morphed into different variations....

 

Anyway, that sounds great. You have a lot of talent. I particularly liked your vocals.

 

My comments would be:

 

- Couldn't hear the bass on Demo 1. But I liked the bass on Demo 2.

 

- at the end of both songs you get "high energy." Why not have some of that high energy (vocal) material earlier on? Why do people always save this good stuff only for the end? One trick, incidentally, is after you record the song and go nuts at the end go right into another recording with the same "end of song energy" but at the beginning. As Sting said, you have to burn from bar one.

 

- Both songs use the same simple chord progression with very little variation, I IV I IV etc. Obviously this is a comfortable progression for the guitar player, but if that drives songwriting, it gets tiresome. Sounds good for awhile, but then enough already with the I IV I IV...

 

Contrasting sections don't contrast enough. Again, the same thing happens in both songs: the chords stay essentially the same, but instead of a rhythmic pattern, the guitar simply switches over to sustained chords. It's not enough of a change to keep the song moving forward. It's just the same chords again and again, now they're fast, now they're slow, now they're fast, now they're slow, etc. (adding - I think it was - an F# minor chord to the D, A, D, A, in the first song does not stray far enough away from the fundamental I IV I IV to sound like something different is happening).

 

There were some periods in which the guitar had a solo (demo 1 comes to mind), but all it was was the same chords back and forth with no vocals. If nothing more interesting is going to happen during these solo sections, I'd get rid of them. Otherwise, I'd make them more contrasting - something to move things ahead rather than just more I IV I IV....

 

Therefore, if I tuned into one of the songs at any one moment when the vocals were happening, I would think "this is AWESOME." There's some great sounding stuff. But then, if I listened for awhile, in the context of the whole song, my impression goes down because the song turns out to be the same chords back and forth with little contrast among sections. And then I listen to the other song and it's almost the same thing, the same chords, the same lack of contrast among sections, but in a different key.

 

These criticisms are my honest response, what I would say to a group if I were working with them. They are based on a fundamental respect for what your are doing and your great vocals. I think if you can get the guitar out of that rut, and come up with more interesting contrasts between sections, you could be international supervixens.

 

-peaceloveandbrittanylips

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Originally posted by The*Ataris




I sppreciate that. I actually found another long, lost SM57 the other day that could come in handy. I worry about my inability to align the phase of a bottom mic, however. If I had that Little Labs unit or, hell, even a polarity switch to try, I would. Maybe I could keep the mic pointed straight as opposed to straight up...?


Thanks...

 

If you dont have a means to listen to or otherwise check the sound or phase..dont do it :). most musicstores(here in DK anyway) have phase reversed cables you can buy. If you decide to record with a bottom mic anyway! without phase reversing it, you can then pan the 2 snare tracks opposit ways still you hear the phase get back in alignment, then see if you like that sound.

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Originally posted by MortenDK



If you dont have a means to listen to or otherwise check the sound or phase..dont do it
:)
. most musicstores(here in DK anyway) have phase reversed cables you can buy. If you decide to record with a bottom mic anyway! without phase reversing it, you can then pan the 2 snare tracks opposit ways still you hear the phase get back in alignment, then see if you like that sound.

 

Cool, I'm going to have to remember that. I wasn't aware that they were available...

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Originally posted by Brittanylips

Brian, Ryan, Brendan, Brandon,


Your names are all like one name, sort of morphed into different variations....

 

Yeah, our parents were terribly creative, were they?

:)

 

Originally posted by Brittanylips


These criticisms are my honest response, what I would say to a group if I were working with them. They are based on a fundamental respect for what your are doing and your great vocals. I think if you can get the guitar out of that rut, and come up with more interesting contrasts between sections, you could be international supervixens.


-peaceloveandbrittanylips

 

I really, really appreciate your response. Yeah, now that I think about it, those songs are both primarily I, IV. Those were the first songs we wrote together (the bass player learned them immediately before recording his tracks).

 

Oh well, the new stuff should show some more variety. I'll make sure to post it in the sticky thread when it's done...

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Originally posted by MortenDK



If you dont have a means to listen to or otherwise check the sound or phase..dont do it
:)
. most musicstores(here in DK anyway) have phase reversed cables you can buy. If you decide to record with a bottom mic anyway! without phase reversing it, you can then pan the 2 snare tracks opposit ways still you hear the phase get back in alignment, then see if you like that sound.

 

You obviously have a way to listen, otherwise you couldn't hear or mix what you recorded.

 

Don't waste your money on a specialized cable. Many preamps have phase invert switching, and any DAW will allow you to invert a track or tracks polarity.

 

IMHO a bottom snare mic is a waste, ymmv. I think the snare sounds fine, concentrate on the bass tone.

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Regarding micing a bottom snare. Each to his own. I've tried it and neglected it and I feel that it gives an important mixing option. I just read the Geoff Emerick book about the Beatles and he specifically mentions micing the bottom snare of Ringo's kit when he went to 8 or 16 tracks and how much he appreciated that option.

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