Recording as a career

[Ronan Murphy]

 

Originally posted by Fletcher@mercenary.com t takes a good 3-4 years not to still be amazed that sound can actually travel through a {censored}ing wire

 

 

I have been in studios for almost 20 years with a few hundred records under my belt and it still amazes me!!!!

 

 

Comlumbus. The deal is this. If there is anything else you can go do in life and be happy than go do that instead of recording. If your heart will not let you do anything else, than do recording, but you need to be prepared to spend most of your life making way less money then a kid flipping burgers at McDonalds.

 

I do OK, but I got in before the the huge glut of kids trying to be engineers and before the industry crashed.

[UstadKhanAli]

I do a lot of recording, but I don't do it for a living.

 

I am a Sp. Ed. Teacher. I work with severely developmentally delayed high school students. This has really helped me to be able to work more effectively with musicians...

 

I make enough money from recording in my house to buy a little more recording gear and go on trips during the summer, nothing more.

 

But I get the joy of *choosing* who I want to record, doing it on MY time, and having fun with it while still making money. The downside is that I don't have a dedicated area in my house to do it yet, so I have people recording in my living room. Someday that'll change.

 

But regardless of what you choose to do as a living, choose it because you are really passionate about it. If you go into recording engineering, know that it is very difficult to make any decent money at it, that you will have to work extremely erratic and long hours, and that you will have to gain a lot of experience along the way. You'll have to keep learning and learning and learning and learning...which to me is a lot of the FUN part, but it's sometimes also difficult. I'm really good at recording, but I don't even come close to knowing it all, not even close. I learn something every time I go to record, and every year, I learn so much more than I ever dreamed possible.

 

And a lot of it is about people skills, too. If you show that you are really good at what you do AND are not an asshole, you can go a long way.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

P.S. My parents actually wanted me to be a lawyer. I just couldn't even imagine doing that {censored}.

[littledog]

Hey Ken,

 

How are you liking that Lawson 251? (I've got the L47mp.)

[Phil O'Keefe]

Originally posted by columbus holy crap phill, that was sweet. thank you so much for the reply. ill get a hold of the mag.

 

Cool - please let me know what you think once you have had a chance to read those two interviews.

 

BTW, you're quite welcome.

[UstadKhanAli]

Originally posted by littledog Hey Ken, How are you liking that Lawson 251? (I've got the L47mp.)

 

I absolutely love it. We did a very informal comparison with the Lawson L251 and Phil's Soundelux 251 (which is twice as much), and the Lawson held up quite well, although the Lawson had a 6dB lower output in cardioid and (I think) a 3dB lower output in omni, if memory serves.

 

At any rate, I really love it, and so do the people who record vocals here. And through the Neve Portico, that sweet sound brings a smile to my face....some people have better gear, sure, but sheeesh, this stuff sure makes me happy and unbelievably lucky to even have stuff this good...

[UstadKhanAli]

Originally posted by Ronan Murphy Originally posted by Fletcher@mercenary.com It takes a good 3-4 years not to still be amazed that sound can actually travel through a {censored}ing wire ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I have been in studios for almost 20 years with a few hundred records under my belt and it still amazes me!!!!

 

I have been in studios for over 10 years years, with a few dozen records under my belt...and with my horrible connection on my PCI card, it truly IS a miracle that sound can actually travel through this {censored}ing wire!!!!!! I don't have to do much more than sneeze in my control room, and that damn cable will fall out of the PCI socket...

[UstadKhanAli]

 

Originally posted by Brittanylips I forget the exact statistics, but it's something like 90% of all college students end up majoring in something different than they thought they would major in as a freshman. The point is you should go to as good a liberal arts college as you can get into, and then just be a reglular college student. Take different courses, meet people, learn stuff. If you're interested in recording, get involved in it, either formally with courses or informally with friends. But as a senior in highschool, I think you'd be in a much better place going to a regular liberal arts school rather than a recording school. You can always do that later. -plb

 

 

A lot of "regular" 4-year universities offer recording engineering classes, so if you can go for a major and take a few classes in recording and see if you are interested in this, this may be a good route to go as well.

 

After taking the classes, if you are still really into recording, continue taking more classes, eventually even possibly minoring or majoring in it...and if not, then you still have the experience of taking those classes, and can continue getting a four-year degree in something else.

 

Just one more option...

[gtrbass]

Personally, I think slip's idea of a Jansport full of weed is the way to go:thu:

 

Definition of a Producer: The guy in the room with the best drugs.

[C JoGo]

Started recording with mono cassette in late 60's--it just became my career through OZmosis. It's very enjoyable, when about your 20th year behind the desk, ..you get to the choose the artists that you want to record:: and charge well for your services.

 

 

P.S. My parents wanted me to be a Priest...

 

Of course helps to have a benefactors , like our past mayor Clint Eastwood:thu:, amongst others >>> the high school kids love the well-stocked recording studio in Carmel.CARMEL YOUTH CENTER

 

Since November members of the center's music program have been playing around on a $100,000 digital recording studio donated by Alan Silvestri, the two-time Oscar-nominated music composer who resides in Carmel Valley. With its sophisticated equipment and capabilities -- students can record any type of music and have a copy to take home and practice with that same day -- the studio has opened up a new and exciting world for longtime and novice young musicians.

 

"It gives them some exposure to musical instruments there they might not be able to do," said Edmundson, a musician who has worked with everyone from Los Angeles Philharmonic tympanist/composer William Kraft to heavy metal legends Metallica. "Subsequently, now we're getting students who are taking lessons that had never done so before."

 

The donated equipment is enough to make a tech geek envious: A fully automated, 128-track digital soundboard that can record that number of instruments at once, each on its own separate recording track; a studio control tower with three built-in computers that can be accessed on two different monitors set up in the engineering booth, with each computer carrying a different recording program, including Pro Tools, GigaStudio and AcidPro, all music industry standards; a pricey Kurzweil SP 8 digital piano; and a digital library that contains several thousand different sound banks, including up to six different symphony orchestras.

[columbus]

thanks for all the help everyone.

 

After some thought, I'm still on the fence with recording, but I'm leaning away from it. I'm looking into the composing/arranging niche now. Does anyone have any experience with composing/arranging?

 

I've "composed" a few short little things, but not much. Sorry if it sound pathetic, but you guys have been a huge help in trying to put together my future.

 

Oh and about the recording- I'll still try to get into it as a hobby, I just don't think I got the "stuff" to make it a carreer.

[flatfinger]

Columbus,

 

There are no guarntees in life. lifes very competitive(globalization). It's going to be a ball buster. do somthing you love , the money will follow. Really, don't make it anymore complicated than that. I know someone who "went for the $$$" and now makes six figures; they also hate there job and there life , and are a 400 lbs heart attack waiting to happen. Just do something you dig so it won't suck quite as much when it sucks. do something you like because your going to have to bear down irregardless of what your doing. Don't expect that all this pontificating is going to lead to anything easy. prepare to get ground down to a pulp. at least do somthing you like.................................................................

 

OK?

[seaneldon]

 

Originally posted by gtrbass Personally, I think slip's idea of a Jansport full of weed is the way to go:thu:

 

 

way ahead of you guys on that one. stays in the lounge.

 

we also brew our own beer in the studio. no bull{censored}. we typically fill up two industrial sinks and a large fridge with 5 gallon jugs of lager. microbrewery kit for $200 = better than any $200 microphone.

[bullux]

Lebanon Valley College would be a good choice, since it has good recording facilities and is also a great liberal arts school. I live down the street from the school and have taken many classes there.

 

As far as a career goes. I got a production and engineering degree from Berklee. I love recording and making records but doing it as a career wasn't for me. I am incapable of kissing ass and shared my opinion one too many times. Now I am a k -12 instrumental music teacher, love it and make more money than I would from engineering. I also have my summers off to work in my home studio.

[theshauntie]

Hello, i'm new 'round here...

 

I've found a lot of the advice posted in this forum to be useful, but I'm wondering if you all could give me some more specific advice considering my particular situation.

 

I am one of those hungry people; a sustaining career in the music industry is the single most important thing in my life. I understand that it will take a great amount of sacrifice for I have already become accustomed to this.

 

I am 23 and already have a AA degree from San Diego City College. They have a pretty good pro tools program there.

Recently I have started a "ghetto" studio called Sound Barrier Music (www.soundbarriermusic.com and myspace.com/soundbarriermusic) with an old friend of mine.

 

So far we've spent a lot of money and hardly made any back. The market is extrememly competitive, and the fact that we both work more than 40 hours a week at our "rent-paying" jobs makes it hard to get out and meet people/musicians and promote ourselves. We've found that in-person promotion works about 50 times better than print or internet ads... Besides that, working so much obviously gets in the way of our availability.

 

My partner is finishing our business plan within a few months, and with that we are planning on looking into small business loans to really get things going.

 

That's plan 'A'. There is also a plan 'B' and 'C'.

 

Plan 'B' and 'C' involve putting our studio on a temporary hiatus only to reemerge later as a label and studio. In the meantime I would either 'B'; look for/get a job at a bigger/better studio with some real connections, or 'C' go back to school to complete a recording program with a little more prestige such as SAE, LARS, or MI.

 

ALL of these plans involve me making the move from San Diego to Los Angeles. Partly for business, but mostly because I'm ready for a new city again.

 

Also note that I am definitely interested in working in post-production as well as in music.

 

So what do you think? And don't get too redundant on me, I've read every post in the forum so far, and I already have my subscription to TapeOp magazine on the way!

[theshauntie]

 

 

I don't recommend the "jansport" plan... i did that and for a while it was fine but it all became totally not worth it when i was robbed at gun/knife point (i.e. knife at my neck from homie-1 while gun was pointed at chest by homie-2). not only was over $2000 in valuables stolen, but i was punched in the face and ended up with just about $1500 in medical bills. i was unemployed at the time so i had no back up. to top it off, most of what was stolen was not even mine...

 

the dude got in trouble with the law because i was careful about my story, but that doesnt change things much for me...

 

lesson learned.

[Ed A.]

 

Originally posted by veracohr Columbus, 9 years ago I came to the same point you're at now, and chose school for audio engineering. My advice: don't choose what I chose. Do it on the side, and make your money somwhere else.

 

 

Back about 30 years ago, I was kind of down on my luck and I fortunately became eligible for vocational rehabilitation assistance. The State was willing to pay for career training of my choice. I unfortunately chose recording engineer school that essentially amounted to nothing. I could have easily chosen law school instead, and the State would have paid for it. So now I'm almost 49 years old and I've yet to crack $40K per year for a salary. If I chose something like law school back then, I'd probably be retired now, living very comfortably instead of still struggling. Columbus, don't be stupid like I was. Find yourself a real career.

[Mitch Lowen]

 

Originally posted by Fletcher@mercenary.com Whehellll.... TV makes it look like great big piles of fun and joy to be an audio engineer... you get to hang out with bands, you're up to your armpits in {censored}... lifestyles of the rich and shameless, yada, yada, yada. The reality is that it's a good 5+ year process before you even begin to scratch the surface of knowing what you're doing... and another 10 years before you even begin to start to earn some money like a normal person. 80-100 weeks are "the norm"... 14-15-20 hour days for weeks on end with {censored}ty food and a bunch of assholes all crammed into a small space [or worse, on a bus driving from city to city... and you don't get to see the city, you get to see the inside of a venue, do a show, maybe catch a quick blowjob from some pig... get some swag and maybe get to go out to dinner on a day off with some manufacturers rep or something but other than that your life is working and watching {censored}tty movies on a bus]. You need to know music. You need to know basic electronic theory. You should have a good grasp of the english language. It helps to be fairly well read/educated/pretty {censored}in' smart to begin with... but not so smart that earning a living is a big priority in your life or you'll never have the patience to figure out what all the bull{censored} we do is/does. Any {censored}in' monkey and his brother can go out and drop a ton of money on hardware... I watch people do it everyday... only a few are actually recording engineers. Only a few will still be recording engineers in 15-20 years... the rest will become mortgage brokers or insurance salesmen or some other 9-5 "straight" gig kinda thing and be able to tell their suburban friends all about their wild rock and roll days at the neighborhood barbeques... but damn few get farther than that. At this point in time there is more competition for jobs then ever before and while there is a ton more content being created it's being created in fewer facilities. There are way more home rigs than ever before... which are generally run by musicians who spend some time learning the instrument we call recording studio [and still take a good 5+ years before they have even the most remote clue of what the {censored} they're doing... it takes a good 3-4 years not to still be amazed that sound can actually travel through a {censored}ing wire never mind evaluate the quality of that tone as it relates to the other tonal and textural qualities of the other sounds that comprise the record... but I digress]. If you think you want to get into this go back to studying music. Get really {censored}ing good at your instrument. Now you can start to study a new instrument... "recording studio". Knowing what the buttons and switches do is only about 10-15% of the gig. The other 85-90% is knowing how to not have to touch the knobs and switches... not "thinking you know" but actually "knowing"... which when you get right down to it is a bitch and a half... because you have to "know" for everybody around you when something sounds right and when it don't sound right... and they have to have the confidence in you to believe you when you tell them it sounds right or if it don't sound right... and the only way you can get their trust is to actually know what the {censored} you're talking about... which ain't gonna happen for a bunch of years. If I were going to give you advice, which I ain't, but if I were... it would be to go to a good kinda liberal arts kinda school, work on a study path of pre-law... go to law school, get a degree, pass the bar exam, become a lawyer, earn way more {censored}in' money in way less time than it will take you to become a recording engineer and dabble with music as a hobby of sorts... or get a boat to bang your girlfriend on the side of your unbelievably hot "trophy" wife or some {censored} like that. If I had it to do all over again... that's probably what I would do... but then again, when I started doing this {censored} it wasn't all Johnny Corporate, Cocaine wasn't addictive and {censored} couldn't kill you... now drugs are bad, you need to wear condoms and the budgets are sliced to the {censored}ing bone. They took all the fun out of it... now all we're left with is {censored}ty hours and a mediocre pay scale [which gets harder and harder to maintain every year as there are more and more punques that are spewed from these idiot rekordin' skools who work for pennies on the dollar of what an old, experienced, bitter, caustic, {censored}head like me charges]. Hey... you asked the question... don't ask scary questions if you think you might be afraid of the answer. Peace.

 

 

The day you have a book published, I'm buying it.

Great read, great post, great reality-check.

Thank you.

[Mitch Lowen]

 

Originally posted by Ed A. Back about 30 years ago, I was kind of down on my luck and I fortunately became eligible for vocational rehabilitation assistance. The State was willing to pay for career training of my choice. I unfortunately chose recording engineer school that essentially amounted to nothing. I could have easily chosen law school instead, and the State would have paid for it. So now I'm almost 49 years old and I've yet to crack $40K per year for a salary. If I chose something like law school back then, I'd probably be retired now, living very comfortably instead of still struggling. Columbus, don't be stupid like I was. Find yourself a real career.

 

 

Yo buddy. Listen to your HEART.

 

Sometimes the wisest decisions are the ones that will make you unhappy. You can yes.. be financially set @ 40 and spent your days in courtrooms u hate with clients you hate and prosecutors you hate...

 

or

 

you can do what you love.. make enough money to live.. doing what you love (u'd be part of the 1% who does) and actually LIVE. Instead of being dead 40-50 hrs a week doing b.s. that makes a 'good living'.

 

Then again: Ed is right. It's a GAMBLE. NO GUARANTUES.

 

Going for your dream is not for the weak hearted.

[Ed A.]

 

Originally posted by Mitch Lowen Sometimes the wisest decisions are the ones that will make you unhappy. You can yes.. be financially set @ 40 and spent your days in courtrooms u hate with clients you hate and prosecutors you hate... or

 

 

... you can work outrageous hours with arrogant, drug addicted music industry assholes for very little pay and get to the point that your passion for music is extinguished so it becomes just another grind (see Fletcher's post).

At least as a lawyer, doctor or similar professional, you can still have your passion for music, while making a boat load of money. Put up with it until you're in your 40's, then quit and do whatever you want, like start a studio just for your own enjoyment, travel, or any number of things. There's something to be said for deferred gratification.

[cryptozoon]

 

Originally posted by Ed A. ... you can work outrageous hours with arrogant, drug addicted music industry assholes

 

 

Of course, there is more to recording as a career than just working in the music industry. Other options include engineer, technician, composer, sound designer, location sound or post production audio for film and TV, broadcast television audio engineers, jobs in advertising, electronic game, audio books and special venues like theme parks.

 

While the hours can certainly be as intensive as any other field, if the clients or talent are difficult, at least you'll be on to another project in a couple of days.

 

Are there difficult clients? Apparently not to the extent that there are in the music industry. With a media buy looming overhead