Members weeman Posted October 13, 2006 Members Share Posted October 13, 2006 Which drum mic gear can i buy to get a professional result at the loest cost. I currently have one of those ebay drum mic kits and i thought the results were fine, untill i referanced at college on another set of monitors and my drum mixs sucked because of the drum tonality and the mic quality HELP ME!. CHEAP is THE AIM WITH BEST SOUND!!!! FULL TONALITY GUYS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members seaneldon Posted October 13, 2006 Members Share Posted October 13, 2006 you want the best sound...but you don't want to spend any money... you, my friend, will have a huge problem fulfilling that dream. the best drum sound comes from thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of great drums, plus a great player, plus the greatest mics and pres and eqs and dynamics, plus the greatest in converters/tape decks. oh, and a slammin' room. guess what costs a lot of money...ALL of that {censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted October 13, 2006 Members Share Posted October 13, 2006 In addtion, the best drum sound has a lot to do with a great kit, room and player. Take those, add 3-4 great mics and pres in the hands of an experienced engineer, and you get a great drum sound. Cheap and great do not walk hand in hand in audioland. Also, if your drums didn't tranlate well to other systems, this is more likely a factor of your control room acoustical tuning and monitors than your mics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 13, 2006 Moderators Share Posted October 13, 2006 The best thing I did to improve my drum recordings was to learn how to tune them. I got a cheap Sunlite kit given to me. I used it to learn on. Researched heads, learned about the natural resonant frequencey of each tub, how to tune to it, etc. Now when a guy brings in his drums and I offer to work with him on his own drums and he declines... I hold up the little rack tom and strike it and tell him it's a Sunlite! That's usually gets them interested. They play the crap Sunlite for a couple minutes and it really sounds good; then I explain how great their nice drums will sound if we take an evening going through their kit right in the room they'll be recorded in. New heads, careful tuning, minimal to no damping... There are some standard mics however that are cheap. Probably the easiest way is to get 57's. 3 or 4. Aparrently the Audix I5 works in the same manner. Get a cheap, decent pair of small diaphram condesors (Octavas, MXL, Samson) and spend a lot of time figuring ways to mic the kit from above first. Spaced, ORTF, XY, Glynn Johns (my current fave). That's your main picture of the drums. OH's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted October 13, 2006 Members Share Posted October 13, 2006 You may be able to get a decent sound with what you have, but again, as the guys said, room, drums, player, mic techniques make a huge difference. And you "referanced" the drums at college? And you need to get the best sound at the "loest" cost? Hmmm.. Maybe college isn't what it used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 13, 2006 Members Share Posted October 13, 2006 An Alesis drum machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 The best thing I did to improve my drum recordings was to learn how to tune them. Absolutely essential. As I said in my EQ column a few months ago, I'm still amazed by the number of drummers I come into contact with that do not know how to tune their own drum kits... so that means you, as the producer / engineer, either need to hire a good drum tech or learn how to do the job - really do the job right - yourself. The best way to do that is to find the best drum tech in your area and pay him or her to show you the ropes. Or, ask the most knowledgeable person you can find at school to show you. Could be a prof, or a student... doesn't matter. Get the person who knows their shi..., er "stuff". Speaking of that, please don't swear in thread titles weeman. We realize musicians swear, but we like to try to keep it out of the actual titles of threads please. Thanks! As everyone else has noted, the drummer is essential to a good drum recording. No matter how good the kit is (also important), and how well it was tuned, if the drummer doesn't know how to balance all the elements of the kit while he's playing, it's going to be hard to get a good sounding final result. For example, many drummers bash the crud out of their brass - especially the hi hats - while barely (by comparison) tapping the backbeat out on the snare... The acoustics of the room also matter... but I think we're getting away from your original question - what are some good, but inexpensive, drum microphones? Many of the microphones I regularly use on drums fall into the "inexpensive" category... at least to me. I regularly use Audix mikes at several positions around the kit. The Audix i5 (around $100) works fantastic on snare, and I use Audix D2's (about $125 each) on toms. Occasionally I'll use something else - a Audio Technica ATM250 is a recent "find" - watch for an upcoming EQ Magazine review - for floor toms. The Sennheiser e609 can also work very well on toms, and they run around $100 each. For overheads, I really like the Audio Technica 4041's, but those might be a bit expensive for your tastes - about $500 or so (on sale) per pair. Less expensive at one time was the Russian built (not the more recent Chineese built copies, which IMO are not nearly as good) Oktava MC012's. You used to be able to get those for $99 each. I have not used them, but I've heard good reports about the small diaphragm MXL condenser mics - the 603's IIRC. Where02190 recently raved about some inexpensive Samson small diaphragm condensers; you might want to ask him about those. A lot of times I don't feel the need to put a mic up on the hi hat, but if I have any doubts, I put one up and record it - you can always mute it in the mix if you find you don't need it. On kick, I normally use a EV RE20 just inside, and a Yamaha Subkick on the outside for some added beef. I record each to their own seperate tracks. Neither of those is super expensive, but on a tight budget, they may not be for you. The new ATM250 and 250DE both impressed me on kick for a more "pre-EQ'ed" type of tone. But on the really inexpensive side of things, I really can't make any recommendations for kick. I'd normally prefer to pick and choose my own individual microphones rather than get a "drum pack", although you may find something in a pre-packaged deal from Shure or Audio Technica or Audix that meets your needs. If you're going to buy several microphones at once, ask your dealer for a package deal since you're buying several items at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members weeman Posted October 13, 2006 Author Members Share Posted October 13, 2006 kick audix D6MXl 603 overs or 604Audix toms and snare/sm57 i think, but its going to cost me alot but im hopeing youl all agree i will be able to make professional results with these babies. took what you said about placement drumer and room into consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted October 13, 2006 Members Share Posted October 13, 2006 The Samson's are CO2, $130 for a pair including shock mounts. Amazing sounding mics, as good or better than the Russian Octava's. Don't let the price fool your ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 Originally posted by weeman kick audix D6 MXl 603 overs or 604 Audix toms and snare/sm57 i think, but its going to cost me alot but im hopeing youl all agree i will be able to make professional results with these babies. took what you said about placement drumer and room into consideration. Assuming everything else is up to snuff (including your own skills ), then IMHO there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to get good, solid drum recordings from those microphones. Please let us know how they work out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted October 15, 2006 Members Share Posted October 15, 2006 As whereO said samson co2 are good also the sm57's can dub as tom mics to another brand that gets overlooked a lot is Superlux they make some great drum mics at a reasonable price . I had a guy bring one to me to record his kit and I was surprised that the Superlux kick he brought sounded decent enough to keep in the project mix I was working on at the time. Also one thing I like to do to my snare for the tight punchy snare is tune my bottom head tighter then the top head. Had a awesome drummer show me this trick works really well you can do the same for toms if you know how .And one more thing a drum dail tuner can give a basic start on tuning until you get the hang of it. It's a tool that always gets overlooked by newbies trying to record drums without knowing how to tune drums I recommend to all peeps that are just starting out on tracking drums anyway good luck and have fun recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted October 15, 2006 Members Share Posted October 15, 2006 Originally posted by twostone Also one thing I like to do to my snare for the tight punchy snare is tune my bottom head tighter then the top head. Had a awesome drummer show me this trick works really well you can do the same for toms if you know how Not to burst your bubble, but this isn't really a trick, it's pretty standard tuning practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members littledog Posted October 16, 2006 Members Share Posted October 16, 2006 Originally posted by seaneldon the best drum sound comes from thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of great drums, plus a great player, plus the greatest mics and pres and eqs and dynamics, plus the greatest in converters/tape decks. oh, and a slammin' room. one post later... Originally posted by Where02190In addition, the best drum sound has a lot to do with a great kit, room and player. Take those, add 3-4 great mics and pres in the hands of an experienced engineer, and you get a great drum sound. Is there an echo in here? Or is it digital delay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Majoria Posted October 20, 2006 Members Share Posted October 20, 2006 And if you don't have a good kit, good mics, decent sound room, talent, engineering knowledge, etc, you'll end up with a recording like this that I made as a test for a thread in the drum forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Originally posted by Majoria And if you don't have a good kit, good mics, decent sound room, talent, engineering knowledge, etc, you'll end up with a recording like this that I made as a test for a thread in the drum forum. I've heard worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Def_Pearl_Pilot Posted October 20, 2006 Members Share Posted October 20, 2006 This was one of my first three drum recordings. I think it sounds pretty decent for what I used. This is completely untouched. I think maybe the overheads are mixed down. The drummers hits were pretty solid although the timing needed to be fixed in spots. http://furiosity.net/music/drumtracks/APRDrums.wma I used two Rode NT1s for overheads, two Audix D6s for the kicks, an Audix i5 for the snare, and an Audix mic pack. I spent a little around $1200 for the mics, cables, stands and clips. I went into a Presonus Digimax LT and an Octopre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Def_Pearl_Pilot Posted October 20, 2006 Members Share Posted October 20, 2006 Conversly, I hate this recording which was the first ever that I did... http://furiosity.net/music/drumtracks/WEIGHTDRUMS.mp3 The drums sound very dull. The snare doesn't have the crack that I would like and it's not as consistent as I would like it to be. We ended up moving things around a lot! Also the performance isn't played to the click. Remember to record several second clips and listen back.. and keep adjusting until it sounds good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Majoria Posted October 20, 2006 Members Share Posted October 20, 2006 Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe I've heard worse. That's not good. I used a Marshall MXL 991 for the single overhead, SM57 on the snare, and an EV 408B on the kick. (991 and 57 went through a mixer then into the mBox2). Kit is a Pacific FS. Room is a 12x12 bedroom with no modifications for sound at all. I really wasn't going for the worst possible scenario, it just happened that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 I love your avatar! Did you take that pic? If so, did you just wait at the side of the road in front of the radar speed trap until someone in the traffic lane was speeding past (apparently at 44 MPH) and then take the shot? Brilliant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Majoria Posted October 20, 2006 Members Share Posted October 20, 2006 No, I found it online somewhere. It's actually at 99 mph, I'm guessing a Photoshop special. I had a many other choices but it appeared the best in a small format. I passed on these: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 99? That's even better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 That sign cracks me up! And while I don't want to venture into political turf, I must say I also like the BUFF / ordnance pic too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Def_Pearl_Pilot Posted October 20, 2006 Members Share Posted October 20, 2006 Is it possible for one of the "pros" to post their completely raw drum tracks? I want to get a point of reference for where my stuff is and where it could/should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 I'm tracking drums this weekend. I'll see if I can get permission to upload a few files. Do you want submixed stereo or individual tracks? If I go with multitrack files, they're going to be fairly short, due to size concerns and D/L times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Han Posted October 23, 2006 Members Share Posted October 23, 2006 IMHO every engineer should know how to tune drums, since most drummers have no clue how to do that. There are simple methods to tune the drums decently in a short time. Most important is the skill of the drummer of course, but also very important are the heads. Heads with dents and pits won't sound any good and batterheads on the bottom don't sound either. New heads on top and resonant heads on the bottom and you're half way there. If there's any need to explain how to tune the drums I'll gladly do. Peace, Han Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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