Members David Shiigi Posted February 28, 2007 Members Share Posted February 28, 2007 So, my recording space is also my living space. It's a loft and it has concrete celings, one concrete wall, regular drywall, hardwood floors and large glass windows. I've got about 18 pieces of 4 in wedge foam and 4 LENRD bass traps. I'm thinking that analyzing my recording space and tweaking the room will make it eaiser to go from recording to mixing. Quality in... etc. My question is, should I buy a Spectrum Analyzer and if so, which one? Would this be hard to do? How would I do it? I've been recording for a while now and have some pretty good equipment. Up to this point I've been using the boards for info and learning through trial and error. What I mean is no formal training, but lots of ambition. I want to make my recordings better. What's the best thing to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nobrainer440 Posted February 28, 2007 Members Share Posted February 28, 2007 Here's the thing about using a spectrum analyzer on an acoustically untreated room: The frequency respose can very DRAMATICALLY in a very small distance. So you could tune the room perfectly for one tiny point, but it would probably sound like garbage if you move an inch from that point. That money would be much better spent on acoustic treatment. edit: Sorry, I didn't read very carefully. It's good to see you already have some acoustic treatment, but I still think an analyzer is not a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphajerk Posted March 1, 2007 Members Share Posted March 1, 2007 i prefer CD's that i REALLY like the sound of... if i get them sounding the best they can, i think the room is pretty good. its pretty easy to hear peaks and lulls especially the louder you crank them. listen at all volumes and walk around the room as well. you will find your bass hotspots, weakspots, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted March 1, 2007 Members Share Posted March 1, 2007 I'd probably skip the analyzer for now and perhaps concentrate on improving your bass trapping a bit. The Lenrds don't do much, especially down lower. You can't really overtrap a room, the more you do the more bass response you'll get, or I should say more evening out the bass response will become. what you don't want to do is use an equalizer on the monitors, but you already know that:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ethan Winer Posted March 1, 2007 Members Share Posted March 1, 2007 David, witesol has the right answer. Also, regardless of what you might measure, the solution is always the same anyway. All rooms need: * Broadband (not tuned) bass traps straddling as many corners as you can manage, including the wall-ceiling corners. * Mid/high frequency absorption at the first reflection points on the side walls and ceiling. * Some additional amount of mid/high absorption and/or diffusion on any large areas of bare parallel surfaces, such as opposing walls or the ceiling if the floor is reflective. --Ethan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MrKnobs Posted March 1, 2007 Moderators Share Posted March 1, 2007 I think downloading some free frequency analysis software is among the best things you can possibly do. Not because using EQ to fix your room is the answer, as others have explained. You can't fix a time domain problem in the frequency domain. But it's a good idea because there's no other way to definitively know exactly what your problems are, and how bad they are. You'll also have immediate feedback on how the treatment you're applying is working. You won't have to take anyone's word for how well their product works, you'll be able to measure it. Ethan and the others are quite right that the number one problem with small rooms is bass modes. The low frequencies you hear at your mix position may change dramatically just by moving your head a foot or two, in some cases. The LENRDs you have are the small ones, I'm assuming. I have quite a few of these, and I've measured their effect on room acoustics before and after applying them. I find they don't do much for bass modes below 125 Hz or so, which is unfortunately where you're likely to have them in a small room. I've tried many configurations in my control room over the last 5-10 years. I now use a combination of Mega-LENRDs (double size version of the usual Auralex LERNDs) in combination with some RealTraps from Ethan's company plus a home made large resonator tube, tuned to my biggest problem frequency. My room response is still not perfect, but greatly improved - as measured with a B&K 2250 analyzer. So far, my preferred product for corner bass trapping is the Auralex MegaLENRD. They give the best low end absorption compared to the amount of useable room they occupy, and require no effort other than stacking them vertically in the room corners. I like Ethan's product on large flat walls because it gives some bass absorption while leaving the high frequencies relatively live. I have not tried every product out there, but of the products I've tried these have worked best for me. I'm a university scientist doing acoustics research, I have access to some pretty nice equipment for measuring acoustics and noise. The handheld meters I used cost $9,000 each, but the good news is, for your purposes free downloaded analysis software using an inexpensive omni microphone is good enough. I believe there is a link on Ethan's excellent website. Knowledge is power, and the best knowledge is quantitative. Just one walk through of your room using RTA software will teach you volumes about acoustics. I wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard or read someone say, "Adding egg cartons to my room has really improved my mixes." Better still, I wish everyone who has ever said that would download the free software and measure what egg cartons do. So, though I agree with Ethan's answer in the post just before this one, I think it would benefit you greatly to be able to measure your room response. Terry D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members David Shiigi Posted March 1, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 1, 2007 Thanks for the responses. Sounds like I'd be getting in over my head. In alot of ways. However, I would still like to at least control part of the room as much as I can. Maybe an area to record vocals and an area to mix. I'm also just curious to know what the room is doing to the sound. It might help when I'm tracking or mixing. I've got wedge foam and some bass traps. Is there a way to semi-control part the the room? Just for tracking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brandondrury1 Posted March 2, 2007 Members Share Posted March 2, 2007 MrKnobs' post is 100% correct! I don't think people push near hard enough for moving the speakers around (if you have the luxury of space). I took 2 weekends to analyze about every possible position in my room. It turned out that one of my monitors stayed in the same place but my other monitor moved by 4 feet. The difference in frequency response is INSANELY different. In fact, I'd say that taking the time to find the ideal sweet spot in my room made 10x an effect of the 33 helmholtz resonators and 14 packages of unopened Rockwool (in corners) have done. Brandon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ethan Winer Posted March 2, 2007 Members Share Posted March 2, 2007 Terry, Right, and that's why the RealTraps site has a number of test files and tones etc people can download. Originally I put those up just so people could see how truly horrible their rooms really are. Yes, that too. And this is a big advantage of software like ETF and REW. Most people focus only on the raw LF response, but the ringing, which these programs also display, is every bit as important. --Ethan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members David Shiigi Posted March 22, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 22, 2007 Ethan, I just watched some of your instructional QT movies on-line. They were very helpful. I'm just starting to realize the problems that I'm dealing with. My room is sonic mayhem. When I'm tracking, say vocals, I've been able to find better results by placing the mic in different places in the room. But, the ringing you're QT movies showed me may be contributing to some, shall we say 'blurring,' of my recorded tracks. It's not that they sound horrible. They just feel a little inarticulate. I'm I understanding this correctly? Add in the sound of the room, the slight slap-back I'm getting and the everyday noise in the background (cars, fridge, 'puter fan, etc.)... And I'm way short of a pro-studio environment. Damn. I just want to isolate the sounds I want to record from the sounds I don't want to records. Is that too, much to ask? Is a vocal booth the answer? I'm afraid they'll sound boxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Majoria Posted March 23, 2007 Members Share Posted March 23, 2007 I'm in a similar situation. I just built some traps and I've been curious for a long time as to the frequencies that actually appear on my recordings. I need a spectrum analyzer that will work with Pro Tools. How/where do you get REW or ETF? Google didn't turn up much for REW, found this for ETF but it doesn't show any screen shots or really say what it does. And what's the difference between the free download and the paid for version? What I'm really looking for is something that monitors Pro Tools output, if it also does input then all the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members myfipie Posted March 24, 2007 Members Share Posted March 24, 2007 YOu have gotten some great advice here.. Here is some FREE software for testing your room. http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/ enjoy!! Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuzzball Posted April 1, 2007 Members Share Posted April 1, 2007 MR. Knobs your answer was perfect. Fortunatly my room is pretty darn good, the only problem I have with it is that it is a little too dead sounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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