How many tracks do you use?

[Mind Riot]

I thought this might be an interesting topic to get some cross section of the variety of techniques people use to get their production where they want it.

 

Now before anyone tells me that there's no way to tell that, let me state that I already know. How many tracks you may end up using can vary widely from project to project, band to band, style to style. So please know that I'm not asking for rigid numbers, I'm just curious as to whether the majority on here are minimalists or tend to use a lot of tracks with overdubs or multiples of the same track with different processing, that sort of thing.

 

For at least a ballpark parameter, let's say it's a five piece rock or metal band. Two guitarists, bass, drums, vocals. Given that this pretend band doesn't really have any burning desire to do it any specific way and you have the control (or it's your own stuff in the first place), would you tend to keep it raw and real with minimal tracking, or layer on stuff to get it sparking and big, or somewhere in between?

 

A hugely general question, I know. But I'm just curious about what kind of cross section we'll get.

[DigitMus]

Well, in today's world a lot is going to depend on what you define as "tracks". Do you count aux and/or bus returns, dupes, mults, virtual tracks - and how do you count stereo FX/reverbs? If you define a 'track' in terms of originally recorded individual audio (like on a 2" tape deck), then I use between 8 and 24 - if you mean all the other stuff as well, you can easily double that.

 

FWIW most of my projects end up in the 12-16 track range (strictly audio) with 4-8 additional FX/bus/mult return channels at mixdown.

 

Scott

[Cirrus]

Usually by the time i've recorded all the tracks it comes in at between 20-25, but four or five of them are dropped pretty early on in the mix (Di signals where I prefer the miked sound on it's own, etc...) Add a couple of effects channels to that and it probably comes in at about 25. Once i've got a mix i'm happy with, i tend to bounce things down into sub mixes and work from there unless something major comes up... maybe eight or so tracks.

[varakeef]

I'm from 8 track analog school that means:

- I use 2-4 tracks to drums, 1-4 to guitars, one for bass and one for lead vocals. That's 5 - 10 tracks.

- However, I might add 1 - 2 tracks for backing vocals. So we're up to 12 tracks.

- And a few percussion tracks (say three at the max). Make it fifteen and you should most definately have a song together.

- Then I may keep adding some minor stuff there may be 5 more.

 

So make it 5 - 20 for basic old school stuff.

 

Here' a catch however. With certain vocalist you may want to record different takes, a multitude of them eventually and the vocal track may consist of several tracks. I still count it as one vocal track if they're not overlapping because I could have made them punching in with reel to reel.

[Kendrix]

As many as the song (and my attempts at fancy production) require.

 

For me it may be a few as 6 or as many as 32.

 

Thanks to in-the-box DAW's and powerful PC's there is effectively no limit on the number of tracks these days.

[UstadKhanAli]

I usually manage to keep it at a little under 24 for stuff like that. It depends on how many overdubs we're doing for the vocalist. If we're doing lots of tracking of the vocalist, I'll make a stereo mix of the instruments and do however many attempts by the vocalist and comp those together. But I may have 8-10 tracks of vocals before I comp them together into one vocal, so if you want to count that, then add 8-10 to the 24, even though I will still ultimately end up with 24 or less.

[Synonym Music]

At least 77 tracks!!! It's a lucky number for me.

 

In reality it's in the 26 track range. With electronic music and INB mixing you have the ability to not only use a ridiculous number of tracks, but also the ability to put each individual sample on their own track. If your rhythm section consists of 21 instruments, they each can have their own channel...

 

Besides bread and butter channels: reverb sends, delay sends, sends going to sends going to a clean channel. It can get hilarious.

[Matt Hepworth]

For me it depends on the project.

 

Demos with a live band - 18-24.

 

I just finished a serious full band/artist acoustic rock/pop project that ended up 50-60 tracks average, with one song exceeding 100 tracks.

 

Overall, I'd say 40-50 tracks for projects.

[Gus Lozada]

Since I tend to pass to audio all of my synth (leads and pads) and percussion (if possible, all drums, cymbals, etc too) tracks -to free some CPU usage and mangle them easier than having MIDI data- the count can go easily over 48 channels for a single song, but I guess a maximum of 18 simultaneous as an average.

 

 

I 'd really love to get THAT fat sound some cats achieve with only an 8 track drum set, two guitars, bass and lead voice ... ( or even less channels ... yeah, think of George Martin here ...)

[axe2 2001]

These numbers are from a recent recording of my 3 piece rock band.

 

4 drum tracks

3 rythym guitar tracks ( seperate performances)

2 lead guitar tracks(seperate performances if possible!)

1 bass track

3 main vocal tracks (seperate performances)

6 background or harmony vocals

2 for special percussion, shakers, tamborines etc..

 

so thats 21. Wow, more than I thought it wold be.

[Phil O'Keefe]

5 pc. rock band? It varies, but I would normally use between 24 and 32 tracks; occasionally more, sometimes less.

 

Normally I would use 10 - 12 on drums:

 

Interior Kick (RE20 / AT250 DE)

Exterior Kick (Yamaha Subkick)

Snare (Audix i5, Shure SM57 or AKG D1000E)

Rack Toms (Audix D2 - one for each)

Floor Tom (Sennheiser MD421, AT250 or D2)

Hi Hat (M160, MC012, SE Electronics SE2-A)

Overheads (Beyer M160's, Oktava MC012's, AT4041's)

Room mikes (one or two - it depends... usually a ELUX 251 or C-414EB)

 

Add one to two tracks for bass (direct and amp with a mic).

 

Guitars? One track for each player - minimum. Sometimes I like to track dual amps for each part... say, a Fender on one track and a Marshall or Vox or whatever on another. That gobbles tracks twice as fast - especially if there are a lot of guitar "parts" and / or different timbres in the song.

 

At least one track for lead vocals. Two or thee if we're doubling them. Maybe a few more for any "gang screams".

 

BGV's? Could be zero, could be a gripload of them...

 

Keyboards? Could be none, could be a couple of stereo pairs... it's usually not more than a few stereo pairs on a hard rock project - if any.

 

I tend to work in a linear fashon instead of using seperate parts for each and every little section of a guitar "part". Normally I don't need more than 32 tracks, and I almost never exceed 48 tracks total (with stereo tracks counting as "two" tracks).

[willie the wimp]

wow you guys seem to use alot of tracks. maybe it's just because i don't overdub and stuff but i never use more than 10 tracks and rarely that.

6 on the drums

1 guitar

1 bass

1 keyboard/piano

1 vocal

and maybe some harmonica or sax in their.

keep in mind this is simple home recording and it's for a blues band so there is no wierd stuff and it's all very organic. i almost never over dub if i don't get it right once then i try it again, unless i absolutley have to in which case it's only one overdub and i use most of the original tracks excaept the part i scew up on. i've never overdubed a guitar part or any other instument- only on vocals, i find it keeps thing more earthy and retains the original feel of the song. i hate when it sounds like the person is not having fun on a track because they have taken the same part 15 times.

[Glyder]

You use what you need........in a nutshell.

[C JoGo]

24 tracks of recorded instruments/vocals to our DAW - & - 24 tracks of sequenced material from our samplers { 8-12 tracks of drums} { 8 channels of external effects } the remainder tracks of strings/bass/etc. total 48 >>> at mixdown... Thats max on our system > unless we bounce...

[Goldenvoice]

I use what I have...

 

That would be 8 well thought out tracks - to tape...

 

I am "old school":thu:

[wztonz]

I typically try to keep projects in 24 tracks, which is what our main machine (a Mackie HDR24/96) does. However should a project require it, an additional 32 in Protools (recorded to the HDR and transfered to PT) and about 60 in Tracktion (the computers hardware limit), that allows in excess of 100 tracks if necessary. I can add another 50 tracks in Tracktion from a laptop is necessary as well. Add to this a few hundred midi tracks, and I think we got things covered.

 

Typical 5 pc rock band

 

2xOH

Room

snare

kick

bass DI(reamped in post if necessary)

4 rhythm gtrs

2 lead gtrs

1 lead vx

4 bvx

17 tracks total.

[UstadKhanAli]

I use more tracks than before because I tend to mic things such as guitar amps and keyboard parts in stereo. I'm also counting my auxiliary tracks (reverb, delays).

 

If it weren't for that, I'd probably be down in the 12-16 track range.

[Gone 6 days now]

I think it depends on how the band sound. I record my band which is a 5 piece and use about 25 tracks.

[DontLetMeDrown]

As many as needed. A lot of times, 50+

[CN Fletcher]

I try to keep things under 24 at all times... it just gets to be too many decisions come mix time if there are more than 24 of the little buggers.

 

Peace.

[TBush]

Usually between 7-10 tracks for drums, bass DI and amp, and 2-4 for guitars. I do use stereo tracks sometimes for overheads and keys- with vocs anywhere between 3-6, depending on BGV's. I think the most I ever used on a song was 42- and we probably could have made it work with less- but the option was there! Average would be 16-20 tracks per...

 

Remember 4 tracks giving you a *wow* ?

 

I'm getting old...

[boosh]

I 'd really love to get THAT fat sound some cats achieve with only an 8 track drum set, two guitars, bass and lead voice ... ( or even less channels ... yeah, think of George Martin here ...)

 

 

Yeah sure,..drag that Martin guy in again. You could have put my name in there for promotion purposes Gus!

[Phil O'Keefe]

wow you guys seem to use alot of tracks. maybe it's just because i don't overdub and stuff but i never use more than 10 tracks and rarely that. 6 on the drums 1 guitar 1 bass 1 keyboard/piano 1 vocal and maybe some harmonica or sax in their. keep in mind this is simple home recording and it's for a blues band so there is no wierd stuff and it's all very organic. i almost never over dub if i don't get it right once then i try it again, unless i absolutley have to in which case it's only one overdub and i use most of the original tracks excaept the part i scew up on. i've never overdubed a guitar part or any other instument- only on vocals, i find it keeps thing more earthy and retains the original feel of the song. i hate when it sounds like the person is not having fun on a track because they have taken the same part 15 times.

 

Actually, compared to a lot of people I talk to these days, I thought I was a bit of an old school luddite when it comes to track use. Personally, when it comes to a rock record, I think that if you can't get it done in 32 tracks, then maybe you shouldn't get it done. But a lot of people bemoan the 32 track limit of PT LE, so I guess I'm in the minority in that regard. I've been reviewing the Pro Tools Music Production Toolkit (I think the review is going to run in the next issue of EQ), and while I'm not going to give away all of my impressions before the review runs, I did like having the luxury of 48 mono or stereo tracks available. But it's just that for me - a luxury. Since I started out with 4 and 8 track tape decks, I'm not unfamiliar with the concept of bouncing things down and doing submixes. And since PT LE already had 128 tracks (but only 32 can be "active" at once), I could do things like BGV bounces down to stereo pairs and then disable the source tracks... which leaves them available in case I decide I want to do a change to the submix balance later.

 

But of course, not everything calls for 12 or 24 tracks of BGV's or 32 - 48 tracks overall, and for a small jazz quintet or blues combo's album, I would probably use far fewer tracks. For example, on the Julie Day album ( www.julieday.org ), I think I ran 8 drum microphones, one track for the upright bass, used a stereo pair for the piano, and maybe one or two on the guitar. If the song had a horn or sax, add one more track for that... maybe a stereo pair for percussion overdubs here and there, and of course, one track for Julie's voice. I don't think I exceeded 24 tracks on any of the songs on that album, and usually it was under 20. But that's a different genre, and calls for a different approach than a big bombastic rock record... but even on a "big" production, I normally find 32 tracks to be sufficient.

 

Here's an old joke from the pre-DAW / analog tape recording days:

 

Q. How many tracks do you need?

 

A. Exactly one more than you have available.

[birdyyellow]

i limit myself to 18 or 24 for rock.

[UstadKhanAli]

Personally, when it comes to a rock record, I think that if you can't get it done in 32 tracks, then maybe you shouldn't get it done. But a lot of people bemoan the 32 track limit of PT LE, so I guess I'm in the minority in that regard.

 

I have a 24-track limit in PT 5.1, and have never bothered to upgrade it to PT Beta or whatever it's called so that I can have 32 tracks. I do, however, have PT 6.4, which does have more than 24 tracks, but still haven't used more than 24. Usually not necessary.

 

Also, I will often submix something so the files or more manageable. Maybe DAW guys don't submix as much, I don't know, but I got into doing this when using my analog 12-track, and do find that it's good and manageable and makes you commit to a particular sound.

 

I don't submix that often, and usually when I do, it's something like a stereo track of sound effects (voices, noises, etc.) that take up 8-10 tracks, or a comped vocal (4-8 tracks of vocals comped down to one vocal).

 

I love submixes personally, even though I don't do it that often.