Members alphajerk Posted March 16, 2007 Members Share Posted March 16, 2007 PD=DP, total typo. while the routing matrix is nice [reminds me of DP], i can see levels and so forth. sucks they chose to be retarded putting the pan at the bottom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pipelineaudio Posted March 16, 2007 Members Share Posted March 16, 2007 I asked this question on their forum yesterday and it doesn't at this point and time. I was told it was because Mackie is being stingy releasing the code to Cokos for some reason. Strange. I don't own a "real" HUI, but the HUI emulation layer in my Yamaha mixing console gets used day in and day out around here, and I couldn't live without a control surface - YMMV of course. There's several companies who make controllers that have HUI emulation - I fail to see where the big secret is or why they won't let you see a SDK. They sent some lame ass excuse early on. But Justin has proved he can code his way around anything, so HUI support should be forthcoming. Its a shame Yamaha wont just support generic midi control too, I remember trying to get vegas going with a DM24. With Justin's coding skills I have a feeling that the generics will be the most powerful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pipelineaudio Posted March 16, 2007 Members Share Posted March 16, 2007 sucks they chose to be retarded putting the pan at the bottom... actually if you look at the app, panning works out best at the bottom. You're just being silly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphajerk Posted March 16, 2007 Members Share Posted March 16, 2007 i can say pretty confidentally that it doesnt and wont for me. i like the track names at the bottom and the pan at the top like i have seen it for 15+ years. why change something that ISNT broken? the interface as a whole looks clunky really. when i say i want to see whats on a channel, im not talking about clicking a button to the right of the fader, i can do that in nuendo too... but rarely use those in that fashion, usually to enable/disable if i use them at all. DP didnt even bother having that and it never bothered me not having those on the fader area, but they had a nice mixer channel layout where you could see what as happening and edit wide or narrow [something nuendo lacks], but i do like how nuendo has seperate module displays above the fader, especially working with MIDI controls to devices and being able to make your own little MIDI control for the mixer. great for outboard verbs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted March 16, 2007 Members Share Posted March 16, 2007 I've got one of my students checking it out now, so I'll have to take a look at it myself RSN. So far though, I've heard pretty positive things from most of the people who have tried it. IIRC, Lee Flier tried it out and may still be using it. Yes, I am. I don't see a whole lot of reason to use anything else at this point, plus, it's great for collaborative projects because even my dirt poor musician friends can afford it. And I hear that responses to bug reports / feature requests is generally unbelieveably speedy. Yeah, it really is. Pretty nutty. What's the word on MIDI support? It's there but I don't know how good it is, as I don't use MIDI for anything. Does it use ASIO driver audio interfaces? Yep... I have not had to do any advance configuration with any audio device I've thrown at it... it always just works right off the bat. You can tweak buffer sizes and all that... but I've had issues with every other DAW seeing some of my audio interfaces right away and have had none with Reaper. VST support? Yeah. I love the small footprint and that it's not a resource hog, too. Truly a cool app! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted March 16, 2007 Members Share Posted March 16, 2007 Oh, and about surround... I asked about this awhile back and Justin said surround support would be provided as of version 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Its a shame Yamaha wont just support generic midi control too, I remember trying to get vegas going with a DM24. Yamaha has always been pretty dang good on docs and support - are you sure you're not thinking of Tascam? The DM24 was one of their (now discontinued) digital boards. Lee, thanks for checking in and offering your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pipelineaudio Posted March 16, 2007 Members Share Posted March 16, 2007 Its a shame Yamaha wont just support generic midi control too, I remember trying to get vegas going with a DM24. Yamaha has always been pretty dang good on docs and support - are you sure you're not thinking of Tascam? The DM24 was one of their (now discontinued) digital boards. Lee, thanks for checking in and offering your thoughts. Doh! Youre right it was a Yamaha DM2000. I begged and pleaded but they said, no, no generic, and no they wont release an SDK to me. It matters little though As long as Justin can intercept the messages these things send he can probably do it...Unless you are in the forum though its hard to fathom just how much work this guy is doing on a daily basis, and its to the point where I hate to ask for anything...he takes a few days off here and there, but still checks in from the road with fixes...he needs a little break for real! The other coder is also completely approachable and probably also burning the candle on both ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lawrence Farr Posted March 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2007 To answer some of the questions from my point of view. How's the midi?In comparison to a modern sequencer daw with midi, the midi sucks... really bad... worse than PT, which is pretty bad in comparison to Cubase or others. But that's ok if you don't use a lot of midi. I do, so Cubase is still the main daw. Justin will work it out I'm sure. It's version 1.8x and the midi is not quite up to par for anyone who uses a typical software midi sequencer. That shouldn't preclude you from tracking and mixing audio with it however. What's good about it?It doesn't install anything. It can be launched from a USB key on any Windows system without installation or any registry changes. You can take your daw with you and launch it anywhere without changing someone's system setup. All they need is an ASIO device... like HD's ASIO driver. I keep a copy of it with plugins like SIR (with it convos) and others hanging around my neck now, on a $40 2gb usb key. I can work with it anywhere at any time and take it home to mix or whatever. The entire directory is less than 4mb... including all the "mobile" plugins. It's uncrippled and free. Like with WinAmp, Justin trusts users who use it to buy the $40 personal license or the $200 commercial license. On their honor. I guess the hackers won't have anything to do over there huh? Unlimited tracks and superb resource management... for free ... ($40 - please pay to continue development). I did and I don't use anywhere as near as much as Cubase. I can load and unload Altiverb's and Waves Linear Broadband EQ's while it's playing with no glitches. The audio engine is rock solid. You can create routing schemes that other daws can't do. It's immediately much more cpu efficient than Cubase on my system. It's 64-bit internal. It comes with a lot of really good plugins and any VST plug that runs as a *.dll without (goofy) protection schemes like Waves can also reside on, and be used from, a USB key on any system. Need a guitar overdub? Take your USB key to your guitarist's home (where all his amps are), launch it, track his guitars, copy the track to the USB key and go home. No need for contiguous tracks or digi-$-translator OMF's. The portability is one of the main reasons I'm hanging around. What's 'bad' about it?Midi sucks. No sync to MTC. No mute automation envelopes. No HUI support. No fader, pan or metering of midi tracks. Coming from a mature UI like Cubase the interface is pedestrian in many aspects although there is a lot more there than meets the eye. No toolbox or tools. Some other minor stuff like the automation is somewhat under-developed at this stage. SummarySome of the things Alphajerk talked about are covered but not as well as they could be. For instance, if you pause the mouse over an insert button on a track you get a popup tooltip which lists the inserted plugins in order. So you can see what's there... you just have to wait a second for the popup... if they could speed that up it would be great. All in all though it's a great audio recording application that does some things that no other daw can do. Launching from a USB key (or memory stick?) virtually eliminates compatibility headaches since you can use it anywhere. Not to shabby. Look, I'm not a shill for Reaper or Justin, I don't even know the guy. This thing has major promise and it already outperforms my $600 late development version daw underneath the hood. I support the product and the developers (even while I use Cubase mostly) because this is the way software development should be done... out in the open ... and available to everyone. It discourages theft and encourages creativity. My public support (which puts NO $$ in my pocket) is to help drive additional development so we can one day have the kind of daws we should have. Fast, good and available for a decent price. There's many things missing for sure... but give it some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphajerk Posted March 16, 2007 Members Share Posted March 16, 2007 your MIDI review would also be a heavy big no for me... scoring stuff lately i havent used anything but midi it seems. nuendo seems weaker than DP to me in the MIDI dept so i cant take ANOTHER step backwards. one other thing, if you change the tempo, can you lock the tracks to the bars|beats so audio start times change with tempo changes as well as all midi data? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pipelineaudio Posted March 16, 2007 Members Share Posted March 16, 2007 your MIDI review would also be a heavy big no for me... scoring stuff lately i havent used anything but midi it seems. nuendo seems weaker than DP to me in the MIDI dept so i cant take ANOTHER step backwards. At this point it is DEFINITELY more of an audio app. Midi guys are often using things like EXT as VST-i's inside reaper one other thing, if you change the tempo, can you lock the tracks to the bars|beats so audio start times change with tempo changes as well as all midi data? There is an option for this if Im understanding the question correctly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lawrence Farr Posted March 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2007 Just as an FYI ... In order to give it a fair chance (imho) you've GOT to download and use a skin (actually "color scheme") you like. The default color scheme bites... Once you have something you can look at and be comfortable with it allows relaxing a little and exploring the application. And I hear that responses to bug reports / feature requests is generally unbelieveably speedy. Coincidentally... ... an update today. REAPER v1.827 - March 16 2007 media item fades: added cosine fade option envelopes: new smooth/fast start/fast end point shapes envelopes: cleaned up context menus automation recording: better return-to-current behavior option to not tint items to custom track colors render dialog renames itself when done fx chain dialog: "remove" button disabled when no selection active optional dirac le mono mode (2x speed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 60hurts Posted March 17, 2007 Members Share Posted March 17, 2007 In every Reaper thread I read, everyone says it's only a $40 app. Doesn't anyone make money off of the projects they do on it? If so, it's a $200 app.Raise your hand if you paid $200 for Reaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lawrence Farr Posted March 17, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 17, 2007 I use Cubase for commercial work. I've not used Reaper for anything that led to or was expected to lead to financial profit in a commercial sense yet. If (when) I do I'll pay the additional $160 as nothing that cost $200 is going to match it for audio work I think. I also think (and someone will correct me if I'm wrong) "commercial" is like in work for hire, not producing your own CD where you make money or recording demos that lead to gigs that make money. I would consider the latter 2 personal use, unless you use it in the club during a gig for backing tracks or something. I suspect most people with most any daws fit those latter two categories. What percentage of people here run commercial enterprises, producing, recording, mixing for others for pay, and what percentage just work on their own music? I don't know. Apparently the business model behind it (free and uncrippled) works as was proven with WinAmp... even though some people never paid a dime for it I'm sure. It's funny... I had a demo of a commercial app floating around (NFL Pool 2005) that was cracked. I got a lot of payments from people who never sent me the required info (serial numbers) for an unlock code. Apparently they were using the crack and they found the program useful so they decided to pay for it. People are strange huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 60hurts Posted March 17, 2007 Members Share Posted March 17, 2007 I think someone ought to pin Justin down on this very question..."If I make a CD of my own content to sell, is that commercial use?". The descriptions of commercial and non-commercial on his site are a little ambiguous:"# "Non-commercial use" as defined here, refers to the use of this software for the production of your own content, not for the purpose of making money.# "Commercial use" as defined here, refers to any use that is not a non-commercial use as defined above, and shall include, but not be limited to either of the following uses: a) the use of this software for the production of other's content for compensation, or b) the use of this software by a business for any purpose." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphajerk Posted March 17, 2007 Members Share Posted March 17, 2007 one thing i might add as i was thinking about this in regards to its download and payment. i read recently about a hack on a popular application. the hacker cited its difficulty in hacking it, but did none the less. but stated, the application uses 30-40% of its code for its CP. its one thing i have to say is positive [and probably the smaller footprint, especially no registry changes] to reaper. i think its a good thing, and if i should end up using it i would certinaly pay the $200, thats CHEAP! nuendo, 10x as much. dp 3x as much. i shouldnt mention PT.... 1000x? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lawrence Farr Posted March 17, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 17, 2007 Let me be clear on something... I love Cubase SX3 and had planned on using it for the next 4-5 years... it works great. I've been a Steinberg customer since the early VST days. Although different people have had different issues with their daws my ride has been mostly uneventful. It just works and it sounds good. With all of that said... I encountered in another forum what could be easily called a "Reaper Fanboy" who was claiming Reaper was "better" than Cubase SX and he dumped SX for it. Well that's plain wrong... it's not. Cubase SX3 is a highly developed audio recorder and daw (C4 sucks ass I hear) and a very powerful program. Reaper is a version 1.x daw in development. I knew that couldn't be true (and it isn't...) so I downloaded the Reaper demo. Well, it's not true. Taken in the context of an ENTIRE daw application (audio, midi, syncronization, options, tools, etc,) Cubase SX3 (or Sonar etc) blows Reaper away. Taken in the context of their respective audio engines, cpu efficiency, routing and realtime operations... no contest. Reaper is undoubtedly (from my experience) based on a better lower level foundation. Reaper's audio engine is easily more efficient, faster, more realtime friendly and has much more flexible routing than the "professional" daw I use everyday in the studio. Which caused me to pause for a second and take a closer look. Which caused me to find some other things in there that are not as bad as I initially thought. Which led me to join the forum and get in on development suggestions. I'm still a little shocked. I'm also a little excited as to what the next 9-12 months will bring in the upcoming development cycles. Which is why I plunked down my $40 and continue to play with it. And why I started this thread... to make people aware that there may be something very interesting on the horizon, not to be a "Reaper Fanboy", although I certainly am a fan... admittedly a very enthusiastic one. When I say "close to leaving SX" I mean that. I could be working exclusively with Reaper in 3-6 months the way it's going. It all depends on how fast it develops the midi features and syncronization options. It's realtime audio performance, routing and easy accessiblility to potential and current clients is that appealing to me. But it has to do everything I need first... not quite there yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 In every Reaper thread I read, everyone says it's only a $40 app. Doesn't anyone make money off of the projects they do on it? If so, it's a $200 app. Raise your hand if you paid $200 for Reaper. I have not even downloaded it yet, but if I do, and like it, and use it commercially, then the answer will be "yes, absolutely". I can't see any good reason not to do the honorable thing - especially when it's so reasonably priced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sstillwell Posted March 17, 2007 Members Share Posted March 17, 2007 In every Reaper thread I read, everyone says it's only a $40 app. Doesn't anyone make money off of the projects they do on it? If so, it's a $200 app.Raise your hand if you paid $200 for Reaper. /me raises hand I use it...I make money with it...I paid for a license. 'nuf said. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pipelineaudio Posted March 17, 2007 Members Share Posted March 17, 2007 The very first liscnence sold was a commercial one as well. Lawrence, it really depends what you do and what you need from a DAW. A LOT of the OG reaper guys were heavy Vegas users. Vegas fell further and further behind and we were looking for a new app to use. Vegas guys tended to do a LOT of audio editing, little or no midi and fell in love with vegas' speed at xfades and edit behaviour. Cubase was never really an option for these types, though sometime after nuendo 2, cubase and nuendo DID get a bit closer. Sonar after version 4 allowed a lot of vegas style editing and so did samplitude after 6 Those apps also included things vegas were missing, like tempo changes and midi However, those apps if you counted the keystrokes or clicks took more and in many cases WAY more clicks or strokes to do the same actions as vegas did some left for sam, some for sonar, but most stuck it out till reaper came. For these guys, reaper is THE uber app, specifically adressing the routing, midi, and tempo needs the vegas guys were dying for. When you cubase guys came onboard we got to experience the new for us, world of VST-i's and for many of us, actual music creation in our recording apps. For a lot of us REAPER is a win/win all the way, no downsides, everything we had in the old app, plus everything we wished for in the old app, and now things we never knew we wanted but fell in love with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lawrence Farr Posted March 17, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 17, 2007 For these guys, reaper is THE uber app, specifically adressing the routing, midi, and tempo needs the vegas guys were dying for.When you cubase guys came onboard we got to experience the new for us, world of VST-i's and for many of us, actual music creation in our recording apps. I hear you. I also use Vegas but I would never produce or record audio in it although it can certainly be used for that. I use it for editing video, although it's audio features are pretty strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphajerk Posted March 17, 2007 Members Share Posted March 17, 2007 wow, people used vegas? whodathunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pipelineaudio Posted March 17, 2007 Members Share Posted March 17, 2007 wow, people used vegas? whodathunk. A lot of old tape guys used vegas because it felt like a digital razor blade, much more so than other apps for many. it edits VERY VERY fast and has since the late 90's. Now other apps are catching up in editing speed, so there really wasnt too much keeping the disgruntled user base there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pipelineaudio Posted March 18, 2007 Members Share Posted March 18, 2007 Special build, for his Highness Alphajerk, from Justin Frankel, developer of reaper download build 1828 from here: http://reaper.fm/files/1.x/reaper1828-install.exe After installing reaper, extract this http://reaper.fm/files/reaper1828_mix.zip and overwrite to c:program files eaper This is the special alphajerk mode, released FIRST to Harmony Central! Special super secret uberleet even Right click the mixer and choose "Show pan controls at top" it will swap pans and scribble strips to look like this: or say, this: or how about, this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ieso Posted March 18, 2007 Members Share Posted March 18, 2007 Wow. how many software firms will do that for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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