Members offramp Posted May 22, 2007 Members Share Posted May 22, 2007 Everywhere I look, it's 'Apogee Apogee Apogee'. Are they really the best? Is there another brand that compares? I rarely hear about any other brand--save for maybe RME--and I can't help but wonder if Apogee are really that good or if they've taken a page from the Digidesign marketing handbook. I noticed that SSL is now doing a rack-mount AD/DA converter. You'd think they'd pull out all the stops, but they seem to be limited to either AES/EBU or lightpipe, not both in the same unit, AND no more than 92k. Plus, they cost more than the Rosetta 800, which offers lightpipe, AES/EBU, and a Firewire option, not to mention 192k. Trading on a name, or is there something to be gained by using a SSL over the Apogee? Better clock? or...? And then, you see Apogee and Apple pairing up for a FinalCutPro-oriented system; not that I use FCP for more than cutting goofy shorts, but there's the implication of hardware handshake and driver smooching that would appear to spread beyond the video realm and appear to make Apogee ideal for anything if you run an Apple system (like me). Can anyone enlighten me on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted May 22, 2007 Moderators Share Posted May 22, 2007 I wonder the same thing too. I keep waiting for someone to come along and make a poors man's Rosetta 800. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kendrix Posted May 22, 2007 Members Share Posted May 22, 2007 FWIW- For "best" disregarding price other brands/models i hear talked about include:Lavry black, United Audio 2192 While not the absolute "best of the best" some folks also like TC's converters. Im interested in how the API 2 channel pre with converters sounds as well. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BrainChild Posted May 22, 2007 Members Share Posted May 22, 2007 It is hard to beat Apogee. Some others include Prism http://www.prismsound.com/music_recording/studio_home.php Lynx http://www.lynxstudio.com/ Benchmark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EngineGuitarist Posted May 22, 2007 Members Share Posted May 22, 2007 People like the aurora stuff from lynx alot. also, mytek, prizm, and lavry blue. i've heard people really like the API A2D but have yet to hear one myself. as for 192k, i think its quite unnecessary, but thats a story in itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members offramp Posted May 22, 2007 Author Members Share Posted May 22, 2007 Well, yeah...192 is not something I'm sold on, either, so I'm not really using that as a higher benchmark. And for certain reasons, price is not an issue, so kendrix's suggestions are thoroughly do-able, although I'm not necessarily one of those "more expensive=better" types; to wit, the price difference between the 800 and the SSL box, and the features each offers. And in response to brainchild's comment: This is one of my questions. Why is it hard to beat Apogee? Price/feature ratio? Performance? Or, again, the "Digi approach" comparison? There are certain conventional wisdoms I don't mind ascribing to--some mic brands and choices, guitar build and brand quality, drums, etc.--but one thing I'm not a big fan of is the "ProTools is the best" mentality; it stands to reason that since all I seem to see everywhere is "Apogee", I might be a bit concerned that it's just marketing that gets them there. (Although, I couldn't make a total call on that, for the simple, dumb reason that I think their logo is horrible, stupid-looking, and dated, which is by no means a way to measure quality. I just hate looking at it.) Here's an example: Sting's mobile rig uses Prism converters. Why? What makes Prism the choice for someone who could afford anything? On the flip side, you can find any number of tracking or post-houses that use Apogee. Then again, Massenburg uses Prism. Why not Apogee?If Apogee is hard to beat, why aren't the aforementioned folks using them?(I'm not challenging you, brainchild, I'm just using your comment as an illustration for my questions.) It's a pleasant, calm rainy day and I'm thinking out loud. Thanks for humoring me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted May 22, 2007 Moderators Share Posted May 22, 2007 Well I own an A2D. I haven't owned other quality converters but I've got a pretty good ear and it does, with my limited experience in converters, sound great. BTW, the combo of the API and those converters always reminds me of tracking to tape in a good studio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members offramp Posted May 22, 2007 Author Members Share Posted May 22, 2007 Is that 'cause of the knobs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members halljams Posted May 22, 2007 Members Share Posted May 22, 2007 I think prism lives in another world from apogee.Stay away from Mytek. The support is bull{censored} and they sound boring.I bought Lavrys, they sound frikkin great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members offramp Posted May 22, 2007 Author Members Share Posted May 22, 2007 I think prism lives in another world from apogee. Is this a 'good' other world or a 'bad' one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 A good "other world". Prisms are quite nice - I wish I could afford them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cl516 Posted May 23, 2007 Members Share Posted May 23, 2007 mytek? sound boring?i disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrJoshua Posted May 23, 2007 Members Share Posted May 23, 2007 I have a Rosetta 200. It sounds fantastic. Does that mean other converters sound bad? No, in fact I think the converters in my Digi002 Rack sound very usable. As good as the Apogee converters, no, but still good. But for my uses, I only need 2 channels of really really good conversion, and for the rest, "good" is plenty. Buy based on need. If you need eight channels of good conversion, buy something that fits that need. If you can't live without eight absolutely pristine channels with flights of angels in the background, sell a kidney and step up to one of the big names. But don't blow $3,000+ on eight channels of really good converters if you're just going to be doing, say, vocal overdubs and guitar work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted May 23, 2007 Members Share Posted May 23, 2007 I own an Apogee Rosetta 800. For 8 inputs and 8 outputs in the low $2000s, it's actually cheap. I realize that this sounds absurd, but think how much a stereo pair of converters cost and compare the price. For the quality, it's really hard to beat. I am extremely happy with the sound I am getting. Not that this is saying much, but it blows the doors off the converters in my Digi001 (which admittedly suck big time)...the difference is so immense that when I initially switched, literally *everyone* coming in to record made a comment right away. It was not subtle at all. There may be better converters, such as the Prisms or Lavrys (I've never heard either, but people with really good ears seem to prefer them), but Apogee has some serious bang for the buck. Again, I know it sounds funny because the low $2000s is a LOT of coin.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted May 23, 2007 Members Share Posted May 23, 2007 And in response to brainchild's comment: This is one of my questions. Why is it hard to beat Apogee? Price/feature ratio? Performance? Or, again, the "Digi approach" comparison? I think it's a combination, but price/feature & audio quality ratio comes to mind. I think it's a great bang for the buck. Yeah, there's probably better converters out there, but damn, I can't believe how good the Rosetta 800 sounds for the money. If there's a better 8-in/8-out converter out there for under $2300, I don't know about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbobo Posted May 23, 2007 Members Share Posted May 23, 2007 Another forum had a a big showdown between Lynx Aurora vs. Apogee 16x converters. To make a long story short, it seemed to go about 50/50 on what was better sounding. I have no experience with either, but bang for the $$ the Lynx are worth a look/listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bang Posted May 23, 2007 Members Share Posted May 23, 2007 I assume you are referring to the Apogee/Lynx Aurora test I did on gearslutz. Well the outcome for me was that I sold the Apogee and kept the Aurora, but I clock the Aurora to the BIG BEN because it sounds nicer. You can't go wrong with that combo. I transferred all my drums from 2 inch to digital via the Aurora/Big Ben combo and it still sounds like tape! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted May 23, 2007 Members Share Posted May 23, 2007 If I was looking for (and could afford) the "best" I think one of the first places I would look would be Dan Lavry's lines. Lavry has been designing digital converters since near the dawn of time. He started out, IIRC, in the early 70s designing analog-to-digital converters for medical equipment (where people's lives are on the line, not just their sound) and helped design the first generation of Apogee converters for them (back when they were just a filter company). He's also an inveterate straight talker in an industry where marketing departments typically dominate discussion. His debates with reps from Apogee regarding some of their marketing claims regarding "accuracy" in AD with relation to external clock sources (ie, Big Ben) are famous around the web: http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/f/38/0/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BrainChild Posted May 24, 2007 Members Share Posted May 24, 2007 When I say you can't beat Apogee it is definitely bang for the buck. At that level of converter I don't think the gains of spending more is warranted unless every other item you have (and room) is up to the task. Using HD with the AD-16X (or Digi 192 for that matter) will provide pretty much exactly out as what you put in and that is all that you can ask from a digital setup. I agree that HD may be overhyped in the industry, however it is still the standard and provides all the capability and tools required to produce grammy results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members offramp Posted May 24, 2007 Author Members Share Posted May 24, 2007 I can't elaborate, but the situation would warrant spending more. What about post/film work? Would you think the Apogees suitable for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BrainChild Posted May 24, 2007 Members Share Posted May 24, 2007 Of course. Check a few of the refs. or check the equipment used at some high end post houses. http://www.apogeedigital.com/users/ And HD is used at many film houses including Sony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dryskin Posted May 24, 2007 Members Share Posted May 24, 2007 Probably already seen it, but try: http://www.sonicstate.com/articles/article.cfm?id=122 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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