MIDI Guitar - how much would you pay for zero latency?

[Rocktopus]

Originally posted by guitarNed If the Axon (or any MIDI system) shuts up after failing to identify a note, that creates silence. Silence, coming in the middle of playing, and creating a hole in the sound, amounts to a glitch. You are playing along, happy as happy can be ...and a note (or two) just disappears.

 

 

If I have a les paul that gets crazy harmonics and overtones, should I worry that muted strums, like waka waka waka {censored}, will produce false midi notes? In other words, should I install everything on my other les paul because it's less ringy? even though the axon is better thatn the GR in this regard it must still pickup harmonics, right?

[Rocktopus]

nik, I meant to quote your comment, as it pertains to clicks and pops. will the axon refrain from sounding any and all notes if you mute the strings with your left hand and strum with your right hand? what about when you move your left hand up and down the neck and you inevitably get some harmonics? will the axon transmit them.

[Rocktopus]

I don't want to distract from the important issues in this thread but here's a philisophical question. would you cut into your nicest vintage guitar to install a ghost for use with the axon? Do you consider it sacreligious like the way I can't believe people put floyd roses in les pauls in the 80's. Will I regret cuting into a '72 les paul in 10 years? how about an '81 paul? why would I want to make the install on a different guitar that I like less?

[Nik]

que nasty, I'll refresh my memory over the weekend, as after many years of guitar synth use, I just don't do that kind of thing when the synth volume is up. I'll reply maybe early next week.

[Nik]

Originally posted by que nasty nik, I meant to quote your comment, as it pertains to clicks and pops. will the axon refrain from sounding any and all notes if you mute the strings with your left hand and strum with your right hand?

 

No.

Something I had never really noticed before. It plays (mostly) the correct notes for the position of my fingers. Very short notes, but notes none the less.

The Axon detects the initial pitch of a note by recognising the pick attack as it travels up the neck and is reflected from a fret back to the pickup. Evidently the pick attack is reflected from a finger sufficiently strongly for recognition of the note.

 

 

what about when you move your left hand up and down the neck and you inevitably get some harmonics? will the axon transmit them.

 

 

No. Silence, unless you pick something.

[Nik]

Originally posted by que nasty I don't want to distract from the important issues in this thread but here's a philisophical question. would you cut into your nicest vintage guitar to install a ghost for use with the axon? Do you consider it sacreligious like the way I can't believe people put floyd roses in les pauls in the 80's. Will I regret cuting into a '72 les paul in 10 years? how about an '81 paul? why would I want to make the install on a different guitar that I like less?

 

 

The question doesn't arise for me in practice as my nicest, most treasured guitar is a Godin with a piezo system factory fitted, but hypotheiticaly:

 

I wouldn't cut wood on a 'vintage' guitar. I would replace hardware, and maybe the wires from the piezo pickups in the bridge can be run under the bridge pickup ring to get to the control cavity.

 

But what makes a guitar 'vintage'? When I started playing in '84, and '81 LP was just a used guitar. If I had installed a synth pickup system on it then, would it be OK? Ho long after a guitar is first sold does it become not OK to modify it? Is a hole that you cannot see, e.g. from control cavity to trem cavity on a Strat, more acceptable than one yo can see e.g. from top to control cavity on an LP?

 

What happens when you cut into the wood on a 'vintage' guitar? Does it stop being a good instrument? Or does it just loose some of its dollar value? Do you own this guitar because it is a good instrument? Or just for its dollar value?

 

I would not modify a 50s or early 60s guitar, but a '72 LP - that's a Deluxe, no? Gibson made them because the Firebird did not sell well and they had a lot of mini humbucker pickups in stock. I would cut the wood. An '81 LP - that has a maple neck, no? And Gibson quality was not so good in '81. I would cut the wood.

[acid_utopianx]

Originally posted by mcinku I have a new GK-3: and a Roland GI-20. I use this for composing only and I can only say the tracking is good enough. You can check two of my songs where I play Rhodes solo with my guitar: Bluazz New Try If you ask me this is fast enough... but you will have to adopt you playing style a little. ...sorry, I had to, yours is probably fine

terrific playing, very groove and inspiring..

I've got a Godin LGX-SA, but I sold my GR-33 due to latency and glitches...

But your GK-3 tracking is phenomenal..

thanks (i'll be hogging your tracks for my own jamming/composing...)

[Rocktopus]

Originally posted by Nik The question doesn't arise for me in practice as my nicest, most treasured guitar is a Godin with a piezo system factory fitted, but hypotheiticaly: I wouldn't cut wood on a 'vintage' guitar. I would replace hardware, and maybe the wires from the piezo pickups in the bridge can be run under the bridge pickup ring to get to the control cavity. But what makes a guitar 'vintage'? When I started playing in '84, and '81 LP was just a used guitar. If I had installed a synth pickup system on it then, would it be OK? Ho long after a guitar is first sold does it become not OK to modify it? Is a hole that you cannot see, e.g. from control cavity to trem cavity on a Strat, more acceptable than one yo can see e.g. from top to control cavity on an LP? What happens when you cut into the wood on a 'vintage' guitar? Does it stop being a good instrument? Or does it just loose some of its dollar value? Do you own this guitar because it is a good instrument? Or just for its dollar value? I would not modify a 50s or early 60s guitar, but a '72 LP - that's a Deluxe, no? Gibson made them because the Firebird did not sell well and they had a lot of mini humbucker pickups in stock. I would cut the wood. An '81 LP - that has a maple neck, no? And Gibson quality was not so good in '81. I would cut the wood.

 

 

 

All good points. I own my guitars because they're players and damn your downplay of their excellence! ha ha. I guess I'm ignorant and superstitious about what makes a guitar sound the way it does. If I knew that drilling and routing wouldn't disrupt the resonance, or whatever, then I would be less aprehensive. Thanks to the helpful info received here, I'm almost positve I'm going to do the install and just see if I like it.

[coyote-1]

I play a few different instruments - started on drums, picked up gtr & bass, and a few years ago started playing keys.

As a keyboardist nowadays, you cannot help but get involved in midi control of sounds. Once you do that, you begin to see everything as a potential midi controller. After all, no instrument is anything but a control surface of some sort that generates a sound. In the acoustic world, those control surfaces/methods are limited to eliciting sound from the resonator to which they are attached. MIDI changed that.

I continue to vastly prefer 'real' instruments where possible/convenient. But now I totally get using ANYTHING as a midi controller - be that a wind controller or a ribbon or a keyboard or a violin or a ZenDrum or a guitar.

Originally posted by DonK He'd be running over the fretboard making flute sounds...I didn't get it then and still don't.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by que nasty All good points. I own my guitars because they're players and damn your downplay of their excellence! ha ha. I guess I'm ignorant and superstitious about what makes a guitar sound the way it does. If I knew that drilling and routing wouldn't disrupt the resonance, or whatever, then I would be less aprehensive. Thanks to the helpful info received here, I'm almost positve I'm going to do the install and just see if I like it.

 

 

I don't know if you need to rout. You will certainly need a hole from the bridge to the control cavity to get the wires from the piezo pickups down. If the wires are long enough, they could go in under the bridge pickup ring. You would only need to make a hole or cutout in the pickup ring itself.

 

The control cavit should be large enough for the extra electronics and battery, but you may want to make extra hole in the top for the GK controls: Synth volume knob and S1/S2 switches.

 

You will certainly need a hole for the 13-pin connector.

 

If I were new to MIDIguitar and in your position, I would start with a Roland GK3 pickup instead of the Ghost. It can be fitted to almost any guitar without any damage and includes a special bracket for attachment to a LP bridge.

 

Alternatively, get a used LP copy (Vintage, AXL, Stagg, Epiphone, SX, Agile...) and install the ghost system on that. Then transfer it to the good LP when you know it is right for you.

[Nik]

Originally posted by que nasty If I have a les paul that gets crazy harmonics and overtones, should I worry that muted strums, like waka waka waka {censored}, will produce false midi notes? In other words, should I install everything on my other les paul because it's less ringy? even though the axon is better thatn the GR in this regard it must still pickup harmonics, right?

 

 

I don't think the Wakka stuff would be a problem. But if the guitar has a tendancy to jump to harmonics when you hold a sustained note, this might be a problem for any MIDIguitar system. How often will you use the synth? How good is the second LP? if the answers are: 'less than half the time' and ' good enough - nealry as good as the number 1' then I would put the synth pickup on the second LP. Another advantage in starting with a Roland GK3 pickup - you can try it on both guitars.

 

As I think I've already said: piezos are very much better tracked by a Roland, but only slightly better by an Axon.

[mcinku]

Originally posted by acid_utopianx terrific playing, very groove and inspiring.. I've got a Godin LGX-SA, but I sold my GR-33 due to latency and glitches... But your GK-3 tracking is phenomenal.. thanks (i'll be hogging your tracks for my own jamming/composing...)

Sorry to hear that, ... like I said, I use my midi stuff for composing only. I can say I have some glitches and latency too but that's not stoping me from making music.
The bottom line is .... this tool is very inspiring for me and I could not live without it.


I'm glad you like my music.

[Rocktopus]

Originally posted by coyote-1 As a keyboardist nowadays, you cannot help but get involved in midi control of sounds. Once you do that, you begin to see everything as a potential midi controller.

Amen! In one of my bands, I found my signiture sound by controling strings and a jp-8000 with a hammond. Shortly after my eyes were open to that possibility, I bought a midi timepiece av and everybody in my band was interconnected like the borg on star trek. my guitar player was triggerring my jp 8000 with his gr33 while our drummer was setting the digital delay time of that same synth with his pads while my bass player was tweeking all the settings of his synth that I was playing the notes to. you get the idea. Oh, and the songs were cool too. it wasn't just a lot of noise. In 2001 we felt like we were really breaking new ground. I'm sure people were doing that in othe places though. midi is awesome!

[Tarv]

If the tracking is good enough for Johnny, it's good enough for me:thu:

[jeverist]

Nik, does the Axon allow you to plug directly in with the 13-pin cable? I might consider one if I could use it with the built in electronics on my Godin.

[Nik]

Originally posted by jeverist Nik, does the Axon allow you to plug directly in with the 13-pin cable? I might consider one if I could use it with the built in electronics on my Godin.

 

 

Yup.

13-pin cable from output of Godin to input (front panel) of Axon.