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Can you hear a difference?


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That's pretty much correct, Phil. You have a chance to listen to a splice-job that cuts back and forth between ITB and console, with them both identified for varying periods (from relatively long to barely a second or so).


Thanks for confirming that.
:)
Are the cuts back and forth of the same song? IOW, did they mix the same song twice - once through the analog console and once ITB? Or do they flip back and forth between two different songs? To me, the comparisons would make more sense if they used the same material for both the analog console and ITB mixes.

 

They used the same song... the flow is pretty much seamless, except for the onscreen ID of the source [which I guess is why it's a QT movie]. I imagine they simply comped it together as one would a guitar solo.

 

____________

 

 

BTW... I have a feeling I'm about to expose my vast ignorance of the higher end of things -- but just so I'm straight on this: are all SSL boards analog in routing but offer digital conversion direct outputs per channel and, of course, full board automation? Or is the dual path thing a recent shift in SSL's paradigm? (I often have vast pools of ignorance with regard to things that are way out of my price range. For instance, put me behind the controls of a Lear Jet and I'd be lost... :D )

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I've heard rumours about 7.4 being in the works. I wonder if it will be compatible with Windows XP as well as Vista? I sure hope so - I am NOT ready to "go Vista" yet.)

 

Vista support was promised for this past summer from digi and they did'nt produce which is fine in my book.I've had a Vista upgrade disk since last Febuary and use it as a nice custom beer coaster.CHEERS!:wave:

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I think the point Digi is really trying to make, with this very specific comparison, is that DAWs are not inherently inferior in terms of summing and overall quality. They want to state a clear message that ProTools mixes can sound very good. I think there point is well proven.

 

I only listened to the clips from my laptop speakers, not exactly a critical environment. The only distinction I could really make was that there is a definite, albeit rather subtle, difference with the percussion. The snare is what I noticed but, that has a lot to do with the snare frequencies being the prominent mix area that my laptop speakers can reproduce. That distinction could exist from one SSL channel to the next I'm quite certain. That it exists with a plug-in is not surprising.

 

Pneumatic nail guns and electric saws don't prevent me from building a Queen Ann mansion... it is a lack of mastery in the craft carpentry that is my limitation. Using a DAW doesn't make the output inherently bad, it just means we have to master appropriate techniques and develop better tools (i.e. plug-ins, integrated outboard...) to achieve the quality we desire.

 

But then again... I'm a film snob who, on the whole, doesn't like video. So horses for courses I say :D

 

cheers

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Usually, I'm the guy screaming "snake oil," but I got 100% on the Hard Rock Loop Test. It sounded to me like the analog console added the teensiest bit of excitation and slashed the teensiest bit of bass, both effects that could be reproduced quite nicely with an exciter plugin, one band of a para-eq, and a half-hour of tinkering.

 

Still, this is from a guy who can't tell when a 20ft Ratshack extension is put between his MDR-7506's and his soundcard, so use plenty of salt. :lol:

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The point of this comparison, seems to me, was to test the innate differences between ITB and analog summing and see if people could tell which was which.

 

You don't want to see which mixer can get the best mix, using different FX, EQ settings and such -- because you're trying to isolate the differences in the basic approach, in this case, digital summing.

 

Because of the controversies over digital summing -- and in particular because of the widespread backchat that there were problems with the way Digi approached summing -- it seems appropriate for them to address it.

 

So, if you're trying to isolate the effects of digital summing versus analog summing, it seems to me that they did most of the right stuff.

_______________

 

To those who say they thought they could hear a difference -- but didn't actually try one of the blind identification tests -- you're potentially fooling yourself. I felt I'd do pretty good in the ID test... but in reality I was just a little under random chance in actually identifying which was which.

 

Now, you might ace that ID test (I did the smooth jazz test -- not because I like smooth jazz but because I was hoping that it would be more revealing of cymbals and other hard-to-nail sounds. I've heard supposed A/B comparisons that used "modern" rock and I found the sound already so problematic that it told me little. Also, admittedly, I was using my everday rig, maybe I might do better if I got away from my NS10m's) -- but until you actually take the blind ID test, you really don't know whether or not you can ID one over the other with any consistency.

 

 

[Maybe I should try the Hard Rock Loop test... :D ]

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Hey buddy I took the test - :D - and I seemed to futz up the ITB mixes with their console counterparts. The bass was a bit more more farty and less clear on the analog board mix with the smooth jazz blind test. Cymbals sounded ever so slightly better though - less "hard" and biting.

 

So I preferred the ITB mix on that one. :idk: Others I haven't listened to enough.

 

Were the mixes different enough to warrant concern that ITB mixing wasn't up to the task? Hell no, and a lot the changes seemed to boil down to the mixer anyway. A board doesn't make the bass farty...

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The point of this comparison, seems to me, was to test the innate differences between ITB and analog summing and see if people could tell which was which.


You don't
want
to see which mixer can get the
best
mix, using different FX, EQ settings and such -- because you're trying to isolate the differences in the basic approach, in this case, digital summing.


 

 

BUT.....you ARE using different EQ's. they may be modeled on the analog versions but they are NOT the same even if using the same settings.

 

honestly i would be more interested if they had these big name mixers mix ITB and had someone copy it onto a console since many say they prefer analog summing.

 

the whole thing has nothing to do with the real world. who uses a console's eq and dynamics but HAS to use only plug-ins for fx? it sure as {censored} ain't for recall purposes and im betting any room with a 6 figure console probably has some nice outboard fx.

 

to me it seems they limited what gear could be used and how, which not only made it "fair" but also made it somewhat ridiculous as to the way it was mixed.

 

can you imagine being hired and going to a studio with an ssl g series and a bunch of nice outboard to be told only use the console eq and dynamics and plugins in PT? no freakin way!

 

they should have let the mixers do their thing with whatever gear they want to use at the studio. then have them mix it on a PT rig with all available plug-ins. its digidesign, they definitely could have provided such a thing.

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... not a ghost in your basement with a dbx 1066 and 2 real traps set up.

 

Atually, that is my OTB setup! I wish someone would do that comparison. I'm very happy with my OTB mixes with this setup and outboard FX.

 

I think the Digidesign test just shows that you can get acceptable results in the box. I'd be more worried about getting a great mastering engineer than if my mixes were done otb or itb. :)

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