Clients are fickle, (also) Don't think you know their reactions ... no matter what!!

[mrmega]

Please forgive the length of the novel I am about to unload on you. I am sharing this experience with you all with the hope you will find meaning with it just as I have.

 

 

I have been recording and producing music for about 25 years and along with songwriting, engineering & producing, I have also been a student of business. As part of that I have spent a lot of time and effort into the psychological part of negotiating and dealing with people.

 

I have been recording and producing music for a major cable empire since I moved where I am now.

 

As part of that I have been doing the marketing music for some of their sports teams. The last 4 or 5 seasons, they wanted heavy hard driving rock.

 

This year, my contact ambushes me at the last minute and decides they want a full blown orchestral piece. During the initial call, I had to ascertain if there was enough time to write, record and mix the piece with enough time left over fro several revisions. I have the gear to do it, I have been studying classical music since I was a teenager.... not formally, but as an interest. The plan was, after I was to old to wear leather pants and makeup, I would be a classical composer.

 

 

So anyway, during the call I decided the time lines were close enough to commit to, even though I knew there was a risk that there would not be enough time should to many things go wrong. I was completely open with my contact about this, because it is my belief in business, that if you stand on the truth and always bring your best effort, you can be successful and together, we decided to go ahead with it.

 

They provided an example piece ... "We like the feel and sound of this one". So I casually listened to it for a few days to get my mind wrapped around it, then I forgot about it and set about my business.

 

I turn in the first draft a week ago, on time as usual. The response was "We aren't getting the emotion" ..... "Oh we don't want the brass in there, oh yeah and something sounds to much like a synthesizer."

 

So I think then I basically reply "Hmmmm... no brass? Ok, but its going to thin out the tonality, but you are the client so I will give you what you want". And i am also thinking "whats this about things sounding like a synth"? There wasnt anything in there that even remotely sounded like a synth.

 

I am only using industry standard orchestral sounds and samples. The most organic available. Hmmmmmm

 

So I ask some questions and the best guess that can be given is that there are too many strings, spread over too many octaves. The person making the final decision doesn't listen to classical music, and wouldn't know the difference between elevator music and the London Symphony Orchestra if it hit him up side the head. So he is saying it sounds to much like a synth because he has heard a few bands use orchestral parts in his classic rock, and he doesn't like it. Yeah, whatever ........ as long as the client is happy, I am happy.

 

 

The worst part? I cant talk to him (the decision maker). I can only talk to my contact. He wont talk to anyone but her and I cant be there. Hes just weird that way.

 

So as we keep doing revisions they keep telling me " We aren't getting the emotion" and they keep asking me to take things out, lower the higher octave strings and things like this. It really ridiculous. I am only highlighting a few things to try and keep this as short as possible... but trust me... its really is ridiculous!!!

 

So this back and forth process goes on several more times. All the while I see what I had initially perceived as a wonderful piece being dumbed down more and more, and the client was asking for really really silly and STUPID things to be done, all of which was negatively affecting not only the notes, but the mix and the arrangement as well.

 

So we get to late yesterday afternoon. This isn't working AT ALL. "We aren't getting the emotion" After making all the changes they asked for, now I am getting feedback like "Its to thin, its to weak, there isn't any excitement" and I am thinking to myself "Well YEAH! I told you this is what was going to happen!!!"

 

But I keep my mouth shut, and only participate in professional and friendly conversations. I do not get adversarial with people who pay me to do what I love doing for a living.

 

I am talking to my contact and she is telling me to go backwards in time... put the brass back in, cause I was right, removing it was a bad idea. And redo the strings.. all of them... put them back the way you had them originally,cause you were right again.... bringing everything down to the same register was a bad idea. Lets redo the drums again, what we asked for isn't working...... you get the idea.

 

So now we are basically where we started with to little time to do any kind of rewrite or make any significant changes, because the deadline is staring us in the face.

 

So I am talking to her and I basically say "Ok now we are back to where we started, and the man who has to approve it didn't like it, and even after we made all the changes he wanted, he was liking it less and less as time passed. With every revision he more displeased even though I was doing exactly what they wanted, all the while sharing my professional opinion which was "this isn't a good idea, and you are the client so you need to be happy."

 

So I start asking more questions, because it is my job to figure out what the client wants. "They aren't getting the emotion" .... Well, they don't play music... I do. They cant mix music, I do! They don't write music, I do. It IS my responsibility to determine what they hear in their heads, even though they cant tell me in a way that will make any sense.

 

SO...... after I ask a number of questions, I think that maybe I should take out the Big cymbals (There are only 3 in 30 seconds..... yeah this is going to make a big difference)"

 

Ok and after asking a bunch of questions, I find myself changing the drum parts yet again... which basically meant take out all the cool drums and percussion, and just put a low drum on the "1" count, and a higher drum on the "3" count.) This is all based on what she is saying, I ask, she answers etc etc

 

So now there are no dramatic tympanies, no cool orchestral drums. Just these stupid 1,3,1,3 hits. Originally the drums were emphasizing climaxes the chord changes made... now we have 1,3,1,3 etc. The steady 1,3,1,3 is destroying the mood they had asked for originally!!!!!

 

There were other issues too, but that was all I could get out of her because she had to go. She had a late afternoon meeting, she would call me back.

 

So time was short so I started working on it. I made the changes she asked for.... and no call. The minutes go by, then a half hour, an hour....2 3. I had called her and she never called me back!!!!

 

I am finished with the revisions at this point. Then it hits me. Even though they have never mentioned it, maybe I should listen to the piece they used as an example. Maybe that will shed some light on things.

 

So I did and of course I saw a TON of differences between what I had written and this example piece.

 

As far as I was concerned, the piece we were working on was failing to meet their expectations. "We aren't getting the emotion".

 

I don't like failure. I don't accept failure. In the last 20 years, I have not even once failed to deliver what the client needed or wanted. So now I find myself on the eve of a huge failure. Failure and I don't gel. Its really bothering me, so much I cant explain how intense it felt, in the worst way possible.

 

So I get all these ideas about what could be done to the piece to make them happy, based on listening to the original example piece. But dude, we don't even have 10% of the amount of time it would take.

 

I'm pretty upset too because I was supposed to get a call back. I never did and she never answered the phone and this is going horribly wrong and even thought you worked your tail off, and communicated the best you could based on your education and experience....... it sucked to be me.

 

I am staring the original version of the music in the face, with a SMALL deleted cymbal part and a stupid little drum part that really is less than 5% of the music, and isn't a significant part of the mix. But I can't do anything else but start making guesses cause she wont call me back!

 

So I do my best, rip it to an mp3, email it to her, and write a professional email. Here is the file blah blah blah. Here are the changes you asked for blah blah blah. I was hoping you would call, you didn't, you must be very busy, blah blah blah.

 

It was a nice email, it was professional and courteous even though I wasn't feeling nice at all.

 

By this time its like 2 in the morning, my wife is in bed, I cant talk to her, all my friends are asleep, I cant talk to them. I just KNOW this isn't going to fly. I guess we will have to abandon the orchestral angle because we only have a few days. Maybe we can do a rock piece like we always do real fast and I can save this relationship and make their deadline.

 

They were nice to me through all this and they definitely knew that the changes they asked for kept making the music worse. They assured me, by their own initiative that everything was fine with our relationship. She kept telling me all week how much she appreciated my long hours and willingness to go the extra mile, the willingness to discuss things. She told me over and over how she loved working with me because no other music company would ever take a sincere interest.

 

Well I am interested. Music isn't just what I do, it is a large part of who I am. I am a student of life, a student of business and a student of music.

 

(continued below)

[mrmega]

So I start writing a rock piece in my head and I am really hoping that after we abandon this orchestral piece they let me do a rock piece so I can keep my relationship with them.

 

I stay up, smoke a few cigarettes and try to prepare myself to live with a failure... my first and only one.Man it SUCKED!!!!!!!!!

 

So I go to bed, and had what was one of the worst nights of sleep I ever had. SO I write the rock piece while I stare at my ceiling, out the window.. blah blah blah.

 

It is now daytime. I get up, grab my first and only cup of coffee of the day, fire up a cigarette, start to check my email... and the phone rings.

 

It's her.

 

"Oh boy here goes"

 

Hello?

 

"We love it! Your so awesome THANK YOU!!!!!!"

 

 

And I am think to myself "You've got to be {censored}ing kidding me right???????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

Then I say "Really? That's great!!!"

 

"Yeah he listened to it, and thats exactly what he was looking for. I am thrilled, he is thrilled and you're GREAT!"

 

 

Ummmmm okay......

 

After I get off the phone, I start to reflect. Let me get this straight. I write a piece of music. You aren't "feeling the emotion". You talk about brass, and strings , and synths and blah blah blah. With everything you ask me to do, you are ruining the music! SO ..... at the last minute, you want the original version of the piece back, because I was right. I take out 3 cymbal crashes and take out the cool drums and put in a stupid boom, chink drum part.

 

Now its what you wanted.

 

 

Lessons learned:

 

1) No matter how hard you try, you really never know what is going on in someone's head. So keep asking questions!!!!!!

 

2) Never ever give up!

 

3)Never accept defeat, and even if it is staring you in the face, don't let it get in your way. Do your best.

 

4) Don't ever never ever forget how much drums can impact a listeners perception of a piece of music. Even if the drums aren't a significant part of said music.

 

5) No matter how frustrating someone makes you in business, don't loose your cool. be nice, honest, upfront and always do your best. If you can do these things, it will always work out in the end.

 

 

 

I hope this experience helps you in some way. Even though I had been working with them for years, and thought I knew them, I didn't know what they meant when they said the things they said. But I never gave up, I kept asking questions and finally got the heart of the matter.

 

I went from a zero to a hero in less than 12 hours.

 

 

Man what a way to end a week!

[Lee Knight]

Great!!! Great summation of your process. I must admit I could see where this might be going, as I'm sure you must have at the time to some degree. The hard part is figuring out how to get back to the start without having that returning circle entail too much time, sweat, worry, insomnia problem solving, etc.

 

Do you know the story of Mick Fleetwood and John McVie staying up all night improving on their basic take for Werewolves of London? They finally nail it as the sun comes up. The producer A/Bs the winning and final take to the first take and

[mrmega]

 

Great!!! Great summation of your process. I must admit I could see where this might be going, as I'm sure you must have at the time to some degree. The hard part is figuring out how to get back to the start without having that returning circle entail too much time, sweat, worry, insomnia problem solving, etc.   Do you know the story of Mick Fleetwood and John McVie staying up all night improving on their basic take for Werewolves of London? They finally nail it as the sun comes up. The producer A/Bs the winning and final take to the first take and

[scarecrowbob]

I am starting out in a buisiness of making ads for people, and I feel that while check writers are always right, I need to protect myself from their whims. So I was wondering if you could comment on something.

 

In what ways were they right when they were saying that they weren't getting the "emotion", and more interestingly, what ways did you end up best by just keeping with what you felt was a good decision?

 

To be short, I am wondering how much you feel that you should just be able to say: this is a good piece of music; I am a pro, and this is what good music sounds like; if you don't like it, my professional advice would be for you to examine your own tastes; you hired me because I know what good music is, so let me make my call on what needs to be done.

 

The more I think about my own position as a person starting to produce media for stupid people (who are nice enough to write me a check for my efforts, and it is no sin to be stupid, eh?), a big, big question is how to say that I know what I am doing and what you are doing moves away from what would best suit this work (well, being diplomatic about it is easy enough I can make fun here... but in reality people are not stupid, just less experinced).

 

How much should you have just gone with what you wanted, and how much did you feel that the client really made a better product by telling you what they thought they wanted, even though they know little about orchestration?

[mrmega]

How much should you have just gone with what you wanted, and how much did you feel that the client really made a better product by telling you what they thought they wanted, even though they know little about orchestration?

 

Well in retrospect, my only real failure was to ask about things they didn't talk about, meaning specifically the drums.

 

I am forever after today adding to my process, a series of questions that address all the instruments of a song (or sections for an orchestra piece) regardless of whether they seem to be at issue and regardless of whether they say anything (good or bad) about a specific instrument or not. I am going to refer to these as insurance questions

 

In retrospect, and we all know hindsite is 20/20, if I had asked about the drums after the first listening/first version and dug deeper into that one area, I might have saved us all a lot of trouble.

 

At the time it didn't even occur to me because they never said anything about the drums, or anything that even made me think drums and to be frank, I have never run into a situation like this one before. It was so abstract.

 

I knew what they were asking for was going to make the product worse, and I told her as much (politely and professionally) every step of the way. Sometimes with a long term and repeat client, it's good to let the client make mistakes, because later on they are more likely to listen to you. Especially when they have to come back to you and say "you were right, we were wrong." I sometimes consider that part of training a long term (and deep pockets) client. It's good business.

 

In addition, in this particular circumstance, it was appropriate to do the things they asked because I do a lot of work for them and make a lot of money doing it. They pay me very well, and none of the jobs i have ever done for them in the past 4 or 5 years have been problematic at all, and I don't foresee many in the future being anything but seamless either. Like I said before, this was a unique circumstance that isn't likely to ever repeat itself.

 

Now, if I had been back in the day and dealing with a low paying job and/or with a client I did very little work for, there would have been a completely different dynamic. I would have taken a harder line, and before the work started, I would have gotten half down, half upon delivery with a bullet points that specify the conditions in which I will work within, including how many revisions they get.

[gregovertone]

what a cool story. i'm glad it worked out.

 

how did you get into that end of business....

 

 

also, what applications/samples are you using to compose like that? i'm very intrigued.

[mrmega]

what a cool story. i'm glad it worked out. how did you get into that end of business.... also, what applications/samples are you using to compose like that? i'm very intrigued.

 

Hey Thanks!

 

Years and years ago I came back home after a lengthy series of musical experiences and adventures and was in between bands. I got involved with a businessman, we combined our gear and opened up a studio together. I thought I was going to just record my music

 

Well I did for a while, and as time went buy he heard alot of songs I did. He really liked them and encouraged me to write and record more. I was doing Rock, Hard Rock, Metal, Pop, Electronic music, Country, Blues and all kinds of crazy stuff.

 

After some time he paid to put snippets of all these songs together to use as a professional catalog for our business. He gave me an office in his building (not where the studio was) and one day walked in with a phone book, threw it down and told me to start cold calling people.

 

"Go get us some money" he said.

 

"I replied "Doing what"?

 

"Anything they will pay you for." Then he walked out.

 

After about 2 weeks worth of calls that went horribly wrong, I decided to put some thought into it because I got tired of being yelled at and ridiculed over the phone. Besides I was itching to get back to making music!

 

I listed all of our gear, all the skills I had, a list of all the things I thought we could do and started listing ways all of this could make us money.

 

A few weeks later I found myself in one of the cities best Ad agency's. They listened to the catalog we had, and after a short conversation they hired me to write, record and produce 2 spots for 2 of their biggest clients.

 

We also ended up doing work with many other companies, including that city's Symphony Orchestra doing on site recordings for them.

 

Along the way and after recording about 30 or 40 really bad bands, I decided I didn't want to record other musicians anymore. The hours were long, the players usually sucked, and the pay wasn't much either. So we focused on the more lucrative (and prestigious) ways to make money (besides when all you do is record other bands, you don't have time to record your own music!!!!)

 

I have been doing songwriting/recording/producing for hire ever since. The longer I did it, the more I charged. The more I charged, the better life got!

 

I do this today and have my own bands on my own terms and I couldn't be happier. It was a VERY long and hard road, but it was worth every step.

 

I am very lucky, but like my grandfather always said... "Luck is the benefit of hard work!!!!"

[mrmega]

 

also, what applications/samples are you using to compose like that? i'm very intrigued.

 

 

 

Sorry, I forgot to answer that one.

 

I use alot of different stuff. The Triton Rack Sounds, including the expansion cards, the Fantom Rack Sounds including the expansion cards, and a WHOLE BUNCH of custom samples I have gotten from various other producers and musicians

 

Mostly I use the custom ones as I don't think the quality of a lot of the Triton sounds are that stellar (a few are great though) and a lot of the Fantom ones aren't that impressive either, but the Fantom ones are better than the triton ones. But just like with the Triton, there are some really great ones. You just have to sift through the crap first

 

But after you use a breath controller and/or manipulate the attack and other parameters, if you are patient you can get some really good results.

 

For this particular session I used my B setup, running an older version of cakewalk for sequencing into a hard disk recording setup because my A facility is being remodeled.

 

I recorded 24 bits @44.4 and went (SPDIF) out of my brains/samplers. It worked!

[Def_Pearl_Pilot]

So, can we hear the track?