Logic vs Pro Tools - work flow...

[Marshall Jeffer]

a protools 24 system? as in a mix or mix plus system? well, since there are 10 cards its a 24 mix system with 10 cards if i think i know what you're talking about. now, 4k? 2 years ago? your boy got {censored}ing robbed. a Pt HD accel card cost less that 4k 2 years ago. now if he over paid for an outdated system and cant update because of the slot type...who's fault is that?

 

Oh, who the hell cares about the exact specs, the point is Pro Tools hardware is a liability if you want to upgrade, just let it go.

 

as for the "panther hardware". so what. why do you NEED leopard? it will get approved eventually. or does your DAW function as numerous other things?

 

If you don't want to upgrade don't, I have no problem with that, but if others do want to upgrade, don't jump all over us about it.

 

 

 

oh, and i go to studios running PT HD on leopard. it works fine. everytime.

 

Cool, and my entire Logic Pro studio fits in one laptop bag, it also works fine every time; it's cheap enough for me to afford it, and I don't have to pay for a studio that runs PT HD on Leopard because the quality is high enough for me to do professional quality records.

 

 

planning for the future is one thing. but if you dont have much cash then using your current comp to the fullest can save you alot. and if you have an older comp then a slightly older software version could save you CPU power. it varies ALOT. but thats not a debate i want to get into.

 

If you don't have much cash, get Logic instead of Pro Tools. You've been arguing against upgrading this entire thread. I have the perfect system for you:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Atari-1040-STe-w-Cubase-C-Lab-Logic_W0QQitemZ330169026743QQihZ014QQcategoryZ82631QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

I still miss my old Yamaha Qx1:(

 

, i find it hard to beleive you're giving system buying advice when you dont even know the correct specs of your friends rig and according to you, if you are right, that your friend paid roughly 4 times more than what he should have. thats a spectacular example to cite. particularly when its suppose to be because of the PROGRAM being used.

 

My friend lives in Chicago, I live in London and New Jersey, when I visited him last year he complained the whole time about his Pro Tools system, and how Tiger support was non existent. I do not have frequent contact with him or his system. But the basic point I was trying to make is Pro Tools costs more than Logic and Logic is easier to upgrade because it's hardware independant.

[strangedogs]

most of you are light years ahead of me I can tell - but I'm running Logic Studio 8 and am simply amazed (I used Logic Express 7 before this)... I own Guitar Rig 2, Amplitube 2, Amplitube Jimi Hendrix Edition, Rock Amp Legends, etc. and my great love is Guitar although I do own a midi keyboard (for my Bass stuff, etc). I DON'T NEED ANY OF IT NOW. Guitar Amp Pro, Space Designer, Mainstage, etc are all priceless to me. With Impulse Responses too! Mainstage is a work of art. My keyboard loves all the midi stuff and samplers too Logic 8 is quite a lot for the money. AND WORTH EVERY CENT.

[EngineGuitarist]

GloomGenerator- it seems you basically agree with me on upgrading when you need it. and thats something the individual decides on their own. as for increased business from a software upgrade, while it may not be provable id be willing to bet money on it not increasing from it. unless as i mentioned you got something huge like the ability to mix in surround.

 

as for my car analogy nothing changed. but im glad you get it now.

 

as for my pet peeve of people not getting compatible things, tho you disagree, even if a person gets the latest and greatest computer when it comes out and new software/interfaces...they still need to make sure it will work before they buy it! if they dont, they're dumb. and once you have a solid system if you want something newer, more powerful, etc. then you should make sure that will work too! its really not that hard. im not saying use ancient equipment, im saying if it doesnt work dont {censored}ing use it! get something else or WAIT.

 

as for the 001 you never told me how long it should have been supported beyond 6 years. the guy with his friend on a tiger system doesnt seem to know what the hell he is talking about but i'll get to that in a moment.

 

as for the ppc intel switch and manufacturers moving over..well {censored} takes time. if you cant wait, dont. but dont wonder why {censored} doesnt work. it doesnt by a choice you made. and if ppc support is going away i guess that only matters if you need new software and you arent supported. to which i ask, do you really need it?

 

dont buy a tape machine, use 24 gigs of ram and a terabyte drive to record. mix in 10.2 and get an "obscenely" spec'd machine so you're happy.

 

 

but id ask if you make more or less hit records than when you had an 80 gig hard drive with 1 gig of ram and not obscenely spec'd machine and mixed in stereo.

 

i didnt mean for my post to seem like this is the way it must be done. i just think no one gave a good reason for upgrading constantly let alone giving any good guidelines as to when to upgrade. using old gear for years and having support dropped happens. things have a certain ammount of time they are around for. beyond that use what you have, but bitching about not getting new things? ridiculous.

[EngineGuitarist]

My friend lives in Chicago, I live in London and New Jersey, when I visited him last year he complained the whole time about his Pro Tools system, and how Tiger support was non existent. I do not have frequent contact with him or his system. But the basic point I was trying to make is Pro Tools costs more than Logic and Logic is easier to upgrade because it's hardware independant.

 

um, as i said, your friends got some issues there and it doesnt seem like you know much about it.

 

upgrading between logic and protools varies depending on what version you use, what hardware you use, and what part(s) you are upgrading.

 

a software update for Pt Le is not much IF its not included.

 

in fact less than an upgrade to the new version of Logic Pro.

 

PT HD has software updates free for longer. so if you want to compare prices its the price of an HD system verse a native system. the HD system wont need a new CPU for a loooong time where the native system eventually would.

 

upgrading hardware varies entirely.

 

 

Logic is hardware independent? so i can run it on PC now?

 

if it were hardware independent, how would that make it cheaper?

[Marshall Jeffer]

 

as i said before, no one gave a good reaosn to upgrade constantly or what guidelines there should be for.

 

 

That's because the original poster didn't ask if he should upgrade, he asked about asked about the pros and cons of switching from Pro Tools to Logic. If you want to debate about upgrading, start another thread.

[EngineGuitarist]

That's because the original poster didn't ask if he should upgrade,

 

oh my mistake. i thought the conversation had advanced as one does in reality. i didnt realize its a static thing.

[Marshall Jeffer]

Yeah, it's static because usually people don't want to see a topic on Gibson guitars, click on it and read about Peavey speakers, that's why I kept referring to the topic and original post of the thread in bold and italics, I thought you would get the hint sooner, but better to learn after 2500+ posts than never!

[EngineGuitarist]

thats funny.

 

considering everyone was citing upgrades as a reason in choosing which system.

 

i made my comments. then you quoted me and gave yours which involved an incredibly overpaid out of date TDM system not being able to run on tiger. but when i ask you about it it turns out you dont know as much as you initially tried to let on. what a shocker! now you dont like that i confronted you on it so "im not sticking to the topic".

 

conversations evolve as they go on. if you dont know that you must not have many.

 

maybe you'll learn after some more posts.

[GloomGenerator]

 

i didnt mean for my post to seem like this is the way it must be done. i just think no one gave a good reason for upgrading constantly let alone giving any good guidelines as to when to upgrade. using old gear for years and having support dropped happens. things have a certain ammount of time they are around for. beyond that use what you have, but bitching about not getting new things? ridiculous.

 

 

Back to my point, it's the CUSTOMER/CONSUMER's CHOICE. If we want to upgrade we will and we expect the companies we buy from to keep up with us. If they do not, we take our business elsewhere. That's just how it is

[GloomGenerator]

I would also like to make one last point in the favor of Logic to the OP.

 

Distributed computing.

 

Logic allows you to use other computers on a gigabit network to process your audio and run more plug-ins. This is where HD rigs start to lose their appeal. You get expandable hardware DSP (which is what made PT what it is, really), in the form of other computers that run hundreds or thousands of dollars more.

 

Got a Mac Pro that you're maxing out because you use every effect and VI known to man? Buy a Mac Mini for $500. All Macs are at least dual core now.

 

What's the cost to performance difference between Logic running on 3 Mac Pros, vs a standard HD Accel rig? I'd imagine the Logic rig is more powerful and less expensive in the long run. All you miss out on are TDM plug-ins. And, frankly, with as powerful as native systems are getting, those will prolly start to go native, too. (except the ones that Digi owns, obviously)

[EngineGuitarist]

 

Back to my point, it's the CUSTOMER/CONSUMER's CHOICE. If we want to upgrade we will and we expect the companies we buy from to keep up with us. If they do not, we take our business elsewhere. That's just how it is

 

 

there are plenty of companies who "update" things fast only to have them not work so good. if you want the bleeding edge than go for it the day it comes out. but when your rig goes down for a few days and the client can't wait they will go to someone who's rig IS working.

[EngineGuitarist]

 

What's the cost to performance difference between Logic running on 3 Mac Pros, vs a standard HD Accel rig? I'd imagine the Logic rig is more powerful and less expensive in the long run. All you miss out on are TDM plug-ins. And, frankly, with as powerful as native systems are getting, those will prolly start to go native, too. (except the ones that Digi owns, obviously)

 

 

actually using the following rigs as examples there's a difference of less than 2k price-wise. this is using a mac pro with (2) 3.0 ghz quad core chips, 4 gb ram and no extra drives and using the stock video card. performance wise id be interested in knowing.

 

Logic rig-

Apogee AD16-3145

Apogee DA16-3199

(2) symphony X-cards- $360

Logic- $500

(3) Mac Pro- $14,088

Total=$21,292

 

HD2 rig-

Apogee Ad16-3145

Apogee Da16-3199

(2) x-HD cards- 1,100

(1) Mac Pro- $4696

HD2 Accel- 10,995

Total=$23,135

[GloomGenerator]

 

there are plenty of companies who "update" things fast only to have them not work so good. if you want the bleeding edge than go for it the day it comes out. but when your rig goes down for a few days and the client can't wait they will go to someone who's rig IS working.

 

 

I never suggested jumping on EVERY update as soon as it's available. I agree with what you just said.

[GloomGenerator]

 

actually using the following rigs as examples there's a difference of less than 2k price-wise. this is using a mac pro with (2) 3.0 ghz quad core chips, 4 gb ram and no extra drives and using the stock video card. performance wise id be interested in knowing. Logic rig- Apogee AD16-3145 Apogee DA16-3199 (2) symphony X-cards- $360 Logic- $500 (3) Mac Pro- $14,088 Total=$21,292 HD2 rig- Apogee Ad16-3145 Apogee Da16-3199 (2) x-HD cards- 1,100 (1) Mac Pro- $4696 HD2 Accel- 10,995 Total=$23,135

 

 

Ok, fair enough, but can you quantify the performance difference? Are the track counts going to be the same? I think the 3 computers will outperform HD2 pretty easily, I mean that's 12 CPU cores and 16 GB or RAM, after all.

 

EDIT-

Apogee's Ensemble is also a consideration if you're like most and don't use 192k, which lowers the price substantially. Does Digi still offer the 96k interface or is it only 192 now?

[EngineGuitarist]

just to clarify the PCI upgrades to PCIe they offered were for HD systems only. if i remember correctly the 001 had already been discontinued after its 6 year life. but no one would have bought it within the last 2 years as the 002 and 002r were out. unless they knowingly bought out of date equipment.

 

 

I TOTALLY agree. However, some of us (myself included), don't have many options for room treatment. I, for example, am using a room that has been built by my grandfather in the 60s. It's a small room, with paneled walls, and one whole wall is bookshelves and a computer desk (both built into the wall itself). Would my recordings/mixes sound better if I had a different room to use? Absolutely! But I don't have that right now and fixing it would literally require tearing the wall down and putting it back up. Way too much time and money involved.

 

 

i hear ya. its a bitch. but you can build your own bass traps for corners, rearrange furniture, get some foam and basically optimize what you have for not much. as long as its not a multipurpose room in your house. if it is then you do what you can with what you have.

[EngineGuitarist]

EDIT- Apogee's Ensemble is also a consideration if you're like most and don't use 192k, which lowers the price substantially. Does Digi still offer the 96k interface or is it only 192 now?

 

the reason i chose the AD16 and DA16 are because they can be used by both systems whereas the ensemble can't be used by protools HD. it wasn't based on 192k, but yes digi does have a 96k version of the 192 interface.

 

so who's got 3 mac pro quads to test? id love to know how close (or not close) these 2 systems are.

[MrJoshua]

What a lot of arguing.

 

Find someone with a ProTools rig, and find someone with a Logic rig. If you have to, book some time in a studio that runs both. Use them both a bit and see which one you like the best. Buy that one.

 

I like ProTools. I enjoy the user interface. I like the results I get with the program.

 

Other people like Logic. They enjoy the user interface. They like the results they get with the program.

 

Pick one and make some music.

[GloomGenerator]

so who's got 3 mac pro quads to test? id love to know how close (or not close) these 2 systems are.

 

I could borrow 6 Macbooks from work lol

[Marshall Jeffer]

I still stand by what I said about Logic Pro 8 at $500 being tons more cost effective than a Pro Tools TDM system, which is what the original poster asked.

 

If he asked about a Pro Tools LE system with an M-Box it would be a totally different comparison, but he didn't ask.

[Def_Pearl_Pilot]

 

What a lot of arguing. Find someone with a ProTools rig, and find someone with a Logic rig. If you have to, book some time in a studio that runs both. Use them both a bit and see which one you like the best. Buy that one. I like ProTools. I enjoy the user interface. I like the results I get with the program. Other people like Logic. They enjoy the user interface. They like the results they get with the program. Pick one and make some music.

 

 

How many studios have you gone to where the engineer lets you take over? I've been to zero.

[Marshall Jeffer]

So what are you going to get? Inquiring minds want to know!

[Def_Pearl_Pilot]

Wow, definitely a heated debate. I think that the most important things when it comes to a DAW are a) can I get it done and b) how fast can I do it? I'm sure that others will consider sound quality and other things more important. So far, Pro Tools is winning that aspect. However, with the Apogee hardware and Logic, the price/quality aspect is higher, IMO. Either way, they both require a tremendous investment in equipment. I still have to spend some more time with Logic. Buying that is not a big deal. It's all the Apogee hardware that has the real cost. So for now, when I get some time, I try messing around with Logic but most of my time is still spent using Pro Tools LE.