Members C.L. Posted November 6, 2007 Members Share Posted November 6, 2007 Greeting to you all, I'm hoping to get some info on the theories in matching up the 'song key' with the 'vocal keys' of both the lead singer and the back-up harmony. I just started using my Digi-tech harmonizer and noted that one can set the key of the harmony by degrees (example: A, Amaj., Amaj2, B, Bm, etc.&etc. I don't trust my own judgement as to what sounds best, and I'm hoping someone might explain in easy to understand language how that all works. I hope I explained my problem clear enough. Thanks for any help you all might have. C.L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ethan Winer Posted November 7, 2007 Members Share Posted November 7, 2007 I don't trust my own judgement as to what sounds best, and I'm hoping someone might explain in easy to understand language how that all works. The following is not what you're asking, but it's the right answer anyway. Forget about automatic harmony generators and spend some time learning music theory. Learn to write proper harmony the old fashioned way. Learn about voice-leading. Study half a dozen Bach chorales (No. 8 is my favorite). The effort spent doing that will be 100 times more valuable than learning how to work the buttons on your harmonizer. --Ethan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bighud Posted November 7, 2007 Members Share Posted November 7, 2007 I second Ethan. Music theory is not some strange distant science but rather a pattern of musical trends and ways in which different pitches and different chords interact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ethan Winer Posted November 8, 2007 Members Share Posted November 8, 2007 I second Ethan. Music theory is not some strange distant science but rather a pattern of musical trends and ways in which different pitches and different chords interact. I decided to put my scanner where my mouth is, so to speak. Here is the Back Chorale I mentioned earlier (175 KB GIF file) : Bach Chorale #8 Analyzing this piece was one of the most productive homework assignments I ever had in music school. The task is to identify every chord, understanding that the chords change at each quarter note. There are passing tones on many of the eight note beats, but they don't count for this assignment. So anyone who wants to learn harmony - and I mean really learn harmony - should download and print this out, then write the chord names (in pencil!) over each quarter note chord cluster. I wonder if I should start a new thread inviting folks to write the chords they hear at each beat, and upload their version for critique and further discussion? --Ethan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stevie j Posted November 8, 2007 Members Share Posted November 8, 2007 You're not the only one, I do it all the time and enjoy it just to make simple piano accompaniments where it was originally 4 piece. Mainly because I cant play piano all that well, I play guitar and trumpet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the_tonto Posted November 10, 2007 Members Share Posted November 10, 2007 I think I am one of the few people who love doing this kind of thing. If you are looking for books on harmony, I really like Piston book, although it's kind of hard to find now. yeah "Harmony" by Walter Piston in case anybody is interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members linwood Posted November 10, 2007 Members Share Posted November 10, 2007 I went through that book my junior year in high school. I don't think you'll find that offered in the public school system in too many cities these days. Too bad. The two guys that taught music at my school were very serious about it and made that happen for us. I learned so much from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Picker Posted November 14, 2007 Members Share Posted November 14, 2007 I'm one that really needs to buckle down and study theory more. I've been involved with music my whole life, but I think there are big gaps in my knowledge as some of it still seems magical and mysterious. Particularly when you get to 4 tone chords. It all becomes very relative and tricky to figure out what chord you are looking at... Then I get further confused by the whole sus 2nd, add 2nd, or add 9. chord substitutions, passing tones the 'five of the five' etc.... My brain hurts... I'm going to go lie down now ... that is all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ethan Winer Posted November 14, 2007 Members Share Posted November 14, 2007 Particularly when you get to 4 tone chords. It all becomes very relative and tricky to figure out what chord you are looking at... Then I get further confused by the whole sus 2nd, add 2nd, or add 9. chord substitutions, passing tones the 'five of the five' etc.... This is exactly why I posted that music. Go ahead and print it out, then post (somehow) your best analysis of the chords at each quarter note. If we go back and forth a few times I guarantee you'll come out knowing more about this stuff than you started with. --Ethan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bighud Posted November 14, 2007 Members Share Posted November 14, 2007 Yeah I love that stuff. It's all fun and games for me until the modal mixture and the non-harmonic tones(that actually create different harmonies) get thrown in crazy places. Once in Theory III we had to write a 10 page paper on a one page long excerpt of a Wagner piece. Never been so stretched for ideas before, but it all worked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted November 15, 2007 Members Share Posted November 15, 2007 I decided to put my scanner where my mouth is, so to speak. Here is the Back Chorale I mentioned earlier (175 KB GIF file) : Bach Chorale #8 Analyzing this piece was one of the most productive homework assignments I ever had in music school. The task is to identify every chord, understanding that the chords change at each quarter note. There are passing tones on many of the eight note beats, but they don't count for this assignment. So anyone who wants to learn harmony - and I mean really learn harmony - should download and print this out, then write the chord names (in pencil!) over each quarter note chord cluster. I wonder if I should start a new thread inviting folks to write the chords they hear at each beat, and upload their version for critique and further discussion? --Ethan Did you have to write out the figured bass notation, too? I was good through about 3.5 semesters of theory; It got kind of ridiculous when we started charting out 12-tone 20th century pieces on a grid. -Dan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ethan Winer Posted November 15, 2007 Members Share Posted November 15, 2007 Did you have to write out the figured bass notation, too? No - thankfully! I'm not a big fan of figured bass because it's not relevant today. Sort of like learning Latin. Yeah, yeah, I know Latin is useful - if you plan to enter spelling bees or go on Jeopardy. --Ethan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 No - thankfully! I'm not a big fan of figured bass because it's not relevant today. Sort of like learning Latin. IMO, it's a usefull tool for forcing you to recognize the way that different chord inversions work together. -Dan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ethan Winer Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 IMO, it's a usefull tool for forcing you to recognize the way that different chord inversions work together. Good point, and agreed. Though I'd rather see them just teach about inversions and not have to learn to actually read figured bass. --Ethan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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