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sound proofing ideas ????


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Okay, let's try to get a little more info here...

 

First of all Bill, what will be going on inside the room? Will you be recording acoustic guitars by yourself, or are you going to be recording drum kits and Marshall stacks set to "stun"?

 

Second, I don't think we ever got a description of the neighbor situation or about others in the same residence as you who may be bothered by noise.

 

The better the description we have of the situation, the better the advice we can give. :)

 

And it really does matter. If you're in an apartment with some cranky neighbors living in the units below and next to you, and you want to record drums, your only hope is to do it when all the neighbors are gone. However, if the residence is a separate house, and you have a bit of distance between you and the neighbors, and they're relatively tolerant, things are looking a bit better...

 

The amount of reduction required to make things "acceptable" also varies. Like I said, if you're just recording acoustic guitars by yourself, sealing up the doors and windows as Chris said, will help:

 

Third, is to deal with the windows which are the biggest sound leakers. I treated my whole room with 2" 703 (6" bass traps and 2" absorbers) and I used the same stuff in the windows. I cut/glued pices together that were 1/8" larger than the windows. I wrapped them in fabric and then wedged them into the windows. The windows are nothing special, just standard double pane storm windows. But between the glass and the 703 the sound simply doesn't get out.

 

I've never seen his room, and I'm certainly not questioning his statements, so take the following with that in mind (and Chris, if I'm mistaken about your room's construction, or if you can shed more light about it for us, that would be cool if you would please). :)

 

I'm sure the solid construction of his home, and those double pane windows help, just as the external concrete block construction of my studio helps. If you're in a similar building, you're in luck... if you're in a less solidly constructed apartment, it's not good. One thing I disagree with Chris on is I normally wouldn't recommend covering the "whole room" with 703, unless diffusion of some sort was going to be fairly liberally applied to the interior of the room too (with the 703 between the diffusion and room walls); IMO, doing so makes the room too "dead" for comfortable mixing. OTOH, I do generally believe that the smaller the room, and the more that noise is an issue, the "deader" the room should be; I'm just not a fan of 100% absorptive walls / ceilings. YMMV. :)

 

But the advice about plugging up the windows and sealing any and all avenues of escape for the sound IMO is excellent, and depending on how much attenuation you require, it may be sufficient... just as closing the door between two rooms may be enough to keep a quiet conversation private, but not a loud argument. :

 

A drum riser can be helpful if you're upstairs, but you would want it to be fairly large and massive or you risk it resonating and making matters worse instead of better. It also needs to be decoupled from the floor. The easiest way would probably be to get some Auralex U-Boats to set it on. If the riser is thick and solid enough, with maybe the underside damped with fiberglass and with the bottom of it lined with neoprene or sitting on standoffs like the U-Boats, it should cut down on noise from the kit that transfers to the dwelling below you, or to adjoining units that share common structural elements or are physically coupled to your home somehow. However, the sound can still radiate out through walls, windows, doors, etc. etc.

 

On the subject of cheap foam mattress covers, you don't want to use those. They are normally made with a closed cell type foam. Acoustic foam uses an open cell type construction, which allows the sound to enter the cellular structure and vibrate the individual fibers, thus converting the acoustical energy into heat energy.

 

With sound leaking out, you need to address every avenue of escape if you really want it to be as effective as possible. How effective it NEEDS to be is a matter that is unique to your individual situation. In some cases, just closing a door and a window is going to silence things "enough"; in others, you'll need a underground bunker. Without knowing more about the exact nature of your situation, any advice we offer is purely speculative insofar as its suitability to your situation. :):wave:

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A drum riser can be helpful if you're upstairs, but you would want it to be fairly large and massive or you risk it resonating and making matters worse instead of better. It also needs to be decoupled from the floor.

 

I like the Auralex idea, I think it's Auralex. I very low "riser" suspended on 2" or so of dense foam strips. Like a big Gamma. I thought that seemed like a pretty decent means of keeping structure bound vibration (drums) from resonating through the slab... then framing and sheetrock of your room. :idea:

 

I don't know it effectiveness but on paper... it seems sound (sorry).

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Lee:

Thank you ;)

 

 

Phil:

I have discovered that there is NO insulation, nothing of ANY type in the floor joist (my ceiling remember I am in the basement kinda like the CrAzY aunt LOL!!! ) any way all that is up is sheet rock so that certainly explains WHY the sounds are so loud up on the first floor!!! And this is a fairly new house its only 35 yrs old so there is NO mass in the walls and floors like an older home.. Btw my room is 12 x 15.. so those are the things I am dealing with at the moment .. thank you all in advance for all your help

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Insulation in the floor joists would hardly make a difference. The ceiling has to be isolated or suspended from the floor joists to attenuate sound transmission. Nails holding up the ceiling transmit vibrations that the ceiling catches into the floor joists. Insulation between the floor joists will dampen cavity resonance. The ceiling should be a continuous membrane with several layers of different materials. The walls should be isolated from the ceiling. The floor above the area you want sound proofed should also be isolated, before the walls in the above rooms are built over it.

 

If there was a cheap way to sound proof, it'd be known.

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My favorite acoustics instructor, the dearly missed Malcolm Chisholm had very definite feelings on the concept of filling cavities with "the pink stuff" as he put.

 

Don't do it.

 

To add a little to prevent resonance is fine. To pack it however, actually increases sound transmission.

 

Float your sound sources via dense foam mini risers (home brew Gammas, etc.) Amps, drum kits, speakers all on foam risers. Seal your room best you can for your rental situation. Framed out window plugs with weather stripping. Seal the door around and under...

 

That's about the best you're going to do for your described rental situation.

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My favorite acoustics instructor, the dearly missed Malcolm Chisholm had very definite feelings on the concept of filling cavities with "the pink stuff" as he put.


Don't do it.


To add a little to prevent resonance is fine. To pack it however, actually
increases
sound transmission.


Float your sound sources via dense foam mini risers (home brew Gammas, etc.) Amps, drum kits, speakers all on foam risers. Seal your room best you can for your rental situation. Framed out window plugs with weather stripping. Seal the door around and under...


That's about the best you're going to do for your described rental situation.

 

All of which is good advice IMO - I agree.

 

In a nutshell, you have:

 

A mechanically coupled space directly above you + no ability to do any construction = a pretty bad situation.

 

Heck, I can't even offer the most simple of suggestions, such as adding a second, double layer of sheetrock on resilient channel under the existing ceiling - although it wouldn't be terribly expensive, that would definitely be construction...

 

Assuming the floor of your apartment is the concrete floor of the basement, I don't even think that setting sound sources on iso / decoupling pads is going to make a huge difference. Yes, they might help a bit, but if you've got concrete and earth underneath you, and on the walls on all sides of you, that's a lot of mass... and your problem area is most likely that ceiling. It's the path of least resistance for the sound to escape, and even low frequencies will tend to reflect off of earth backed concrete walls and floors... eventually heading up and out via your ceiling. If there's a wood subfloor underneath you, and that is connected to the rest of the house via wood or steel structural members (wall studs, poles, etc.), then the iso units would be more beneficial.

 

Corner bass traps will help the room "sound better" inside of it, as will installing some additional absorption to handle flutter echoes and first reflection points, but they won't help much with the sound getting in and out of your room. You could try hanging blankets from and covering the ceilings, but that won't do much. Ditto that for a full hung / suspended layer of fiberglass or a drop ceiling. It will help a little bit, but you're still going to have major noise transfer between the two spaces.

 

But even if you did all of that, your recording takes are gonna be blown anyway every time someone walks across the floor directly above you. :(

 

I wish I could offer you a ray of hope in all this, but turning down / playing softer and / or scheduling your music sessions for times when others will not be disturbed because they're gone are the only viable pair of options you have (short of moving) that I can see, and IMO, saying otherwise would be irresponsible of me because it will only give you false hope and lead you to spend money (703 isn't super-expensive, but if you just lost your job, it's not cheap either) for little real improvement to your main problem / area of concern.

 

Again, I'm sorry for the bad news, but that's my best judgment on it. :(

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Have any of you tried the Clearsonic IsoPac isolation booths? Not exactly cheap, starting at around $1,000 for the small vocal booth. They look decent and are fully enclosed so it should help keep the sound in without the investment of a pro iso booth.

I was also browsing some sound absorbing blankets at Markertek and I really wish they lived up to the hype. If only it were as easy as tacking some of these up on the walls and ceiling.

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one of the better products..and learning resources is the Green Glue website.

 

http://www.greengluecompany.com/technicallibrary.php

 

this stuff is also amazing for in-wall insulation:

 

http://www.thenaturalabode.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=7262&Category_Code=default&Store_Code=TNA

 

it's also safe to install.

 

seems that adding to existing construction is the only way. insulated joists and extra sheetrock sandwiched with green glue or with res channel look like the only options.

 

soundproofing a room makes proper studio ventillation important.

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I do KNOW that there are CHEAP and EASY ideas that WORK


Maybe for acoustical treatment (for improving the sound WITHIN the room), but I challenge anyone to name me methods that are "CHEAP and EASY" for soundproofing a room (IOW, preventing outside sounds from entering, and interior sounds from escaping).


I'm not trying to bum your wave here, but again, physics of sound can't be changed by wishful thinking. Carpet isn't going to do much of anything to prevent sound from escaping a room, unless you put up 10' thick layers of the stuff (thus increasing the mass of the walls significantly).


Sorry, but that's how I see it, and I would imagine any reputable, knowledgeable acoustician or studio designer you want to query on the subject will tell you exactly the same thing.


I'm sorry I couldn't be of more help, and if you do find ways that are "cheap and easy" (and
effective
), I (and I'm sure a lot of other folks) would appreciate hearing about them. But I honestly do not know of any that meet those criteria.
:(

Sorry.

 

I used to play in a band with 2 carpet installers. We had a room covered in carpet padding and it was extremly good at reducing noise. It was difficult to hear sound beyond the door. While not sound proof it did provide a substantial amount of noise reduction and our practice room always track very well using a single microphone.

 

This treat meant requires roughly 7-10 layers of very heavy 3/4 padding staples and glue on every surface in the room.

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