The music biz according to Ed Roman - interesting read

[darreno27]

Hey guys - long time reader here but not a big poster. I've just recently started coming to the music biz forum - I have enjoyed reading many of the topics and experience others have had with the biz - very interesting stuff.

 

 

For those of you who don't know, Ed Roman is a very, very controversial character in the guitar world. He owns a large shop in Las Vegas. It is quite fun reading and exploring content on his site. I came across this talk while reading about the Kramer Nightswan, ironically.

 

http://www.edroman.com/guitars/kramer/vivian_campbell.html

 

 

"In Los Angeles there used to be a great music scene, This scene happened coincidentally in the 80's, Baby Boomers were in their late 20's and early 30's. Great bands played everywhere every night and life was good and music was good. This eventually ended just like the Disco craze of the 70's did. When the 80's ended there was nothing there to take it's place.

 

The 50's had excellent Rhythm & Blues, Instrumental Bands & Doo Wop, The 60's started with the Surf Music and ended with Zeppelin, Hendrix, Cream, The Doors, Mountain, Jeff Beck & Woodstock and somewhere in the middle came The Stones, The Moody Blues The Who and oh yeah the Beatles. The 70's were a bit weaker but you still had Southern Rock, Grand Funk, the Eagles, KISS & The Stones, Moody Blues and the Who, the 80's came and all Hell broke loose, There were so many great guitar players you couldn't keep track of them all, Van Halen, Lynch, Schenker, Rhoads, Vai, etc etc and of course you still had the Stones the Moody Blues and the Who, When the 90's arrived Rap had started taking hold of the younger kids, there was a short time there when playing guitar wasn't even cool anymore....... s#!t!

 

It is my firm belief that the record companies do not want the musicians to make it, They do not want to create any more super groups or superstars. Understand that once an entertainer reaches superstar status he can write his own ticket. Just like a professional athlete can command 80 million a year to run around a field knocking someone down and/or get knocked down himself. An entertainer the likes Mick Jagger or Elton John doesn't need a record company they can snap their fingers and start their own record company.

 

Record companies don't want any more Mick Jaggers or Frank Sinatra's or Elvis Presley's or Jim Morrison's or Jimi Hendrix, They want bands like Hootie and the Blow Fish. They want bands that will never make it past their third album which usually doesn't even get released.

 

If a band has a great first album they usually don't make squat, All the money goes to the record company. After all they paid for the original promotion, the actual recording and, oh yes those magic advances that they waved in front of your face to get you to sign the contract. The only trouble is no one in the band is keeping track of where the record company is really spending the money. For all the band knows the record company could be recouping promotion costs from 5 other bands that didn't show a large profit.

 

Start thinking about it, there are no more super groups, there are no more Eddie Van Halen's No Jimi Hendrix's. Because the record companies are purposefully spewing out bland garbage to sell CD's and next month they want to sell you something totally new, forget that other band... listen to this great new band.... In this way the poor mindless lemming consumers never really get to be staunch fans of any band. No more Grateful Deadheads, well maybe, there are some benefits after all... Just kidding.

 

So here we are in the 90's and Country & Western is Kickin' Butt.... My theory is because, it's all about the pickin' The rock bands today are usually flash in the pan barely memorable carbon blobs. Who remembers Hootie and the Blowfish. Lets face it dudes. If ya' wanna make it for real ya' gotta practice the damn guitar, If'n you don't learn how to play it.... no matter how retro cool you think you look with your baggy shorts and dirty messed up hair you ain't gonna make it.

 

This is SHOW BUSINESS that's two words, SHOW and BUSINESS....

 

It's about the SHOW If you want to be remembered you better learn how to play and put on a good show and oh yeah, look the part.

 

It's about the BUSINESS, If you have limited talent, and you can't play real well, Keep pluggin' you'll get better, look at KISS they barely could play when they started. But they got better and they gave their fans the shows of their life and even though Gene Simmons is a hard guy to like, He has my vote as one of the best businessmen in rock. Gene discovered a lot of bands and is responsible for a lot more than most people know.

 

So what can we do about this {censored}......

 

Hey don't look at me, I don't have all the answers, just the questions....

 

One of my favorite sayings is "Resistance is Futile" (I also like to use the word "cromulent" but that's a different show). A very Cromulent show indeed."

 

 

 

Thoughts?

[richardmac]

Well... yeah.... nah.... um...

 

It's BS to say that record companies don't want megastars. Of course they do. They just can't manufacture them like they used to be able to. The only market where you can still do that is the Disney market. Get some quirky pretty funny girl and market her to the tweens. Because by the time kids hit 16 they're old and cynical and jaded. And then they want to be different just like everyone else.

 

Like the wise Derek Sivers said, and I paraphrase, ask a guitar dude what the music business needs and he'll say people need to play more guitar. Ask a social media expert and he'll say better use of social media.

 

But the dude is right about the music - the 90's hit and poof! Where have all the good times gone? There are still great bands out there but the heyday of rock is over. But I think the spirit will live on. There will always be kids buying guitars and learning Smoke on the Water. We were talking in another thread about kids growing up and expecting music to be free. Does this mean that they won't be expecting to sell their own music? And does that mean that they'll be doing it just for fun? And will that lead to more honest, better music? Or is the whole house of cards coming down? More people making more music is more better, really. But only if it doesn't result in a hundred million bad bands all trying to sell bad music, which is where I believe we are right now.

 

The dude is also right about practicing, though. In order to get any attention now, you have to perform in front of people. Putting a song on youtube that you mixed and autotuned and getting 10,000 views means absolutely nothing. And in order to perform in front of people you have to be good. Which means practice, practice, practice.

 

I think the dude is funny, though. I like how he puts things.

[ermghoti II]

Huh, Ed Roman wrote something obviously wrong on the Internet. Must be Monday.

[BlueStrat]

Huh, Ed Roman wrote something obviously wrong on the Internet. Must be Monday.

 

 

+1000

 

The music didn't change, the medium did.

 

FWIW, I remember my mom and dad shaking their heads in sadness in 1971, in the heyday of the Beatles, Stones, Motown, etc etc at how there was no more good music.

[Matximus]

Engaging read. I think he's mostly wrong, though. I mean, he's obsessed with white-guys-with-guitar music. Those superstars are a dying breed simply because that music is no longer that relevant to lots of young people.

 

And it seems to me that Superstars are way more important than ever to record companies because big-tent artists are the only way they can make money selling recordings, tickets and merchandise. Thus, you've got all the 360 deals with the few remaining titans like Jay Z, Madonna. Lady Gaga was created and packaged by Universal - her 360 deal with them will almost certainly be the new standard for tomorrow's big label.

 

But, yeah, I guess he is onto something - Record Companies are going to expect to have their hand in the till for all profits from concerts, licensing, merchandising - you name it. So the idea of the standalone superstar calling all the shots is over. Why would they want that? These companies are rightly entitled to a return on their investment - it's gonna have to come from somewhere as record sales profits dwindle and dwindle and dwindle.

 

THe legacy superstars in rock are banking they can go it alone without backing of record Cos - Radiohead, Pearl Jam, NIN, Weezer - you name it. They'll all have some good success, I'm guessing too.

 

What will be interesting to see is if anyone can get to that kind of level of success without the old model of a huge company using its considerable financial resources to produce and promote them.

 

I do believe it will happen eventually. Stuff comes out of left field to shake up the business ALL THE TIME. We're overdue for one.

[Poker99]

 

Like the wise Derek Sivers said, and I paraphrase, ask a guitar dude what the music business needs and he'll say people need to play more guitar. Ask a social media expert and he'll say better use of social media.

 

 

hahaha true true

[timrocker]

Roman date-stamps that piece in the seventh paragraph. He was thinking and writing that in the 90's. At the time, it was pretty insightful.

 

Just me personally, I don't care if there are supergroups or if there aren't supergroups. I care if there is food on the table and the rent is paid.

[flatfinger]

Yes , Intellectual Property is dead , Long live Intellectual Property.

 

 

It is interesting how everyone should be able to put on a show . How much did Steely Dan tour ????? ( that thing about Bernie Taupin writing lyrics for Elton John songs was a myth?) Did all of the artist who were successfully in the times he mentioned write all of there own songs ???? ( Unfortunately , some did !!) So basically , If you don't want to live out of a suitcase , and say you really would rather stay at home with your family BUT , You could write the best song ever heard ; don't bother ; you will make more money working at Mickey D's . And don't spend any time that you will never get back writing a great novel either.

 

Marvelous

[flatfinger]

The music didn't change, the medium did.

 

More than just the medium ; the demographics , the smash and grab with an assist from electrons , the rise of situational ethics, endless rationalizations about the "universally evil " record compnaies who "had it coming " ect, ect , ect .

[BlueStrat]

 

And it seems to me that Superstars are way more important than ever to record companies because big-tent artists are the only way they can make money selling recordings, tickets and merchandise. Thus, you've got all the 360 deals with the few remaining titans like Jay Z, Madonna. Lady Gaga was created and packaged by Universal - her 360 deal with them will almost certainly be the new standard for tomorrow's big label.

 

 

THIS x 10!

[sventvkg]

THIS x 10!

 

Doesn't matter because it's so splintered nowadays, music is free, more people are listening to more music then ever and real artists DO NOT NEED MAJOR LABELS. If you're good and driven you can get the word out. People are doing it.

 

All those big ticket artists are a dying and or very limited breed and most people are not paying attention. Thankfully

[BlueStrat]

 

Doesn't matter because it's so splintered nowadays, music is free, more people are listening to more music then ever and real artists DO NOT NEED MAJOR LABELS. If you're good and driven you can get the word out. People are doing it.

 

 

This is true too. You can get wildly popular without a label. But even then the chances of making any real money, enough to live off of and support a small middle class family, is slim to none. In the new music business model, popularity only makes your stuff more desirable to steal. You may have a few years of getting paid well to perform, but royalties income, the real long-term source of income for career writers and artists, is fast becoming a thing of the past.

[3shiftgtr]

 

and real artists DO NOT NEED MAJOR LABELS.

 

 

When you say "real artists", I am to assume that your view of what comprises a "real artist" is a personal one?

 

If you are referring to the art vs. commerce debate and how dancing with the devil effects the art, then your whole post is a non sequitur.

 

If you are referring to the fact that an artist can stand on his or her own merits without the help of a major, then I concur.

 

But if you want to get on the tonight show, or good morning america, or even carson daly, the gatekeepers for that kind of thing is the majors.

 

And REAL ARTISTS know how to separate the making of the art with the selling of the art. I guarantee that you have a peice of musical art in your collection that you truly love, that was affected by the process....

[flatfinger]

. And REAL ARTISTS know how to separate the making of the art with the selling of the art. I guarantee that you have a peice of musical art in your collection that you truly love, that was affected by the process....

 

REAL ARTIST always have 45 second intros to there 5 minute songs !!!!!

[Dancebass]

 

he's obsessed with white-guys-with-guitar music. Those superstars are a dying breed simply because that music is no longer that relevant to lots of young people.

 

 

I won't disagree with that statement but I do believe The Egg laid that Chicken if you follow me.

 

Demographically, the REAL money to be made from music in this country is from 16 year old white gals. Just simple math. That's the way it's always been.

 

Jay -Z and Beyonce have been the King and Queen of America's Prom for the last 5 years. That's cool whatever, but I can damn well guarantee you that Jay Z and Beyonce aren't making young girls panties buzz. There's big money to be made and it's going to waste.

[3shiftgtr]

 

That's cool whatever, but I can damn well guarantee you that Jay Z and Beyonce aren't making young girls panties buzz. There's big money to be made and it's going to waste.

 

 

...Beiber....

[daddymack]

Jonas Brothers...

[sventvkg]

 

This is true too. You can get wildly popular without a label. But even then the chances of making any real money, enough to live off of and support a small middle class family, is slim to none. In the new music business model, popularity only makes your stuff more desirable to steal. You may have a few years of getting paid well to perform, but royalties income, the real long-term source of income for career writers and artists, is fast becoming a thing of the past.

 

 

I can't argue with you there Pat. The people that I know that net more then $50K a year from Their own music are on the road 8-9 months out of the year and that {censored} will get old. Mostly solo too because a band just costs too much as you well know..Its gonna take me the next..well {censored} I don't know If I'll ever get to that level with only my own music. I know I can make that playing cover gigs too...Anyway..There's not future in it because as you know, inevitably, you can't keep up that touring pace as you'll burn out..you get older and venues dry up etc..there's no insurance, retirement, etc...It's a bum deal when you look at it from that perspective...But man, I have to say, I'm miserable doing anything else and all I ever think about is creating and performing music..Those of us who are called to it have no choice. I have to do it and even though I'll probably be broke i'm OK with that because if I had money doing anything else, wasting my time all day at some {censored}ing job I couldn't give a {censored} about, I would be dead inside...I'd rather live a very small meager existance..used gear ( but top quality:)), used car, no debt, etc...To have my days to be able to create my art and nights to perform it. My wife already knows this and she's cool with it..If someday she's not, she knows where the door is and I'll find someone else:)

 

When I look at this life in terms of material success it could be a bust but in terms of happiness and fulfillment, it can't be beat. So I would say, those of us who are called know it, we accept the consequences and drive on! If you're worried about the financial aspect of it, this is not the life for you. As Kris Kristofferson has said, "Don't do it for the money"....We don't get into this life for the money. If ya do, you're setting yourself up for failure..Took me 20 years to learn that:)

[sventvkg]

If you are referring to the fact that an artist can stand on his or her own merits without the help of a major, then I concur.

 

THIS!!

[flatfinger]

Originally Posted by 3shiftgtr If you are referring to the fact that an artist can stand on his or her own merits without the help of a major, then I concur.

 

 

 

THIS!!

 

 

What is the definition of "stand on his or her own " ????

 

 

Living out of a suitcase 9mo a year for $50k?????????

 

 

The only artist who have manged to SIGNIFICANTLY promote, market and monitize there career on the net are ones who had the backing of a label at some point in the begining .

 

Have there been some small successes of the viral marketing approach? probably . THere are some folks who have managed to get 100,000,00 plays of a youtube vid ( no $$$ out of it however !!) or ................has the net been used as a accessory after the band or artist established a fan base the old fashioned way ??

[sventvkg]

 

What is the definition of "stand on his or her own " ???? Living out of a suitcase 9mo a year for $50k????????? The only artist who have manged to SIGNIFICANTLY promote, market and monitize there career on the net are ones who had the backing of a label at some point in the begining . Have there been some small successes of the viral marketing approach? probably . THere are some folks who have managed to get 100,000,00 plays of a youtube vid ( no $$$ out of it however !!) or ................has the net been used as a accessory after the band or artist established a fan base the old fashioned way ??

 

 

Never get into this business for the money.

[Blackwatch]

 

I can't argue with you there Pat. The people that I know that net more then $50K a year from Their own music are on the road 8-9 months out of the year and that {censored} will get old. Mostly solo too because a band just costs too much as you well know..Its gonna take me the next..well {censored} I don't know If I'll ever get to that level with only my own music. I know I can make that playing cover gigs too...Anyway..There's not future in it because as you know, inevitably, you can't keep up that touring pace as you'll burn out..you get older and venues dry up etc..there's no insurance, retirement, etc...It's a bum deal when you look at it from that perspective...But man, I have to say, I'm miserable doing anything else and all I ever think about is creating and performing music..Those of us who are called to it have no choice. I have to do it and even though I'll probably be broke i'm OK with that because if I had money doing anything else, wasting my time all day at some {censored}ing job I couldn't give a {censored} about, I would be dead inside...I'd rather live a very small meager existance..used gear ( but top quality), used car, no debt, etc...To have my days to be able to create my art and nights to perform it. My wife already knows this and she's cool with it..If someday she's not, she knows where the door is and I'll find someone else When I look at this life in terms of material success it could be a bust but in terms of happiness and fulfillment, it can't be beat. So I would say, those of us who are called know it, we accept the consequences and drive on! If you're worried about the financial aspect of it, this is not the life for you. As Kris Kristofferson has said, "Don't do it for the money"....We don't get into this life for the money. If ya do, you're setting yourself up for failure..Took me 20 years to learn that

 

 

Very well written. You have to realize that for many musicians you're living the dream, and you'll always have the memories of that to enjoy as long as you don't get bitter along the way.

I gave up on touring to have a relationship with my wife and it wasn't something that I made a conscious decision about it just happened over time. And I really wish that I'd gone out on just a few tours. I got to play hundreds of gigs locally but it's not the same.

And financially I've got a house that I might still lose, My occupation ruined my body and now I'm 55 and have the earning power of a 20 year old high school grad. I used to tell myself that if it got real bad I'd just get a camper and go out on the road but that's a hard fantasy anymore. I really don't know if I had the temperament for it or not, but I guess that's the point isn't it? I'll never really know.....

[BlueStrat]

 

Very well written. You have to realize that for many musicians you're living the dream, and you'll always have the memories of that to enjoy as long as you don't get bitter along the way. I gave up on touring to have a relationship with my wife and it wasn't something that I made a conscious decision about it just happened over time. And I really wish that I'd gone out on just a few tours. I got to play hundreds of gigs locally but it's not the same. And financially I've got a house that I might still lose, My occupation ruined my body and now I'm 55 and have the earning power of a 20 year old high school grad. I used to tell myself that if it got real bad I'd just get a camper and go out on the road but that's a hard fantasy anymore. I really don't know if I had the temperament for it or not, but I guess that's the point isn't it? I'll never really know.....

 

 

Well, I did it for years. Do I regret it? Hell no! Would I do it again? Hell no!

[daddymack]

Well, I did it for years. Do I regret it? Hell no! Would I do it again? Hell no!

 

and more to the point: Could you do it again as successfully today?

 

You at least had the 'privilege' of going out as the leader, under your own banner; I had the woeful misfortune to go out as a hired gun. Very different perspectives...

[sventvkg]

 

Well, I did it for years. Do I regret it? Hell no! Would I do it again? Hell no!

 

 

You did do it man! Kudos to you! I'll do it until I no longer can as well:) Life is too short for any other option.