Members wwwjd Posted March 24, 2008 Members Share Posted March 24, 2008 I have three 1/4 inch 15ips master tapes to dub to digital. A local studio will rent me thier playback machine for the weekend. They want me to bring in the tapes to see if they have moisture destroying them. They say they would "BAKE" them first if it needs it. I've never heard of that but it sounds almost legit. My tapes been stored sitting, wound tight in my closet on a shelf, away from dust, light and drastic temp changes. I unrolled one and it LOOKS okay. They are about 20 years old now. What's the deal with BAKING tapes? Sounds like it could harm them but I do believe a studio would do the right thing, especially since I have studio experience and can talk the talk with them. What's the scoop? Anyone else have problems dubbing old, old analog masters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members veracohr Posted March 24, 2008 Members Share Posted March 24, 2008 It's legit, do a Google search to find some info about it. Here's the top search result: http://www.tangible-technology.com/tape/baking1.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 I have personally baked many a tape, but only when they need it - and not all old tapes do. But IF they do, it's the only way to make them playable. It's not particularly difficult to do, but there are some things you need to watch and be aware of. I'm pretty sure I've gone into the details a few times on this forum, so you might also want to do a search here with "bake tape" as the key words. I'd re-type the details but I have to run... I'll do so later tonight if you can't find anything. Sorry about that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted March 25, 2008 Members Share Posted March 25, 2008 The March 2008 issue of EQ magazine has a great article on how to bake tapes at home. www.eqmag.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wwwjd Posted March 25, 2008 Author Members Share Posted March 25, 2008 thanks for the input guys. I'll let the do their magic if needed. Thanks, Phil, but no need to type anything up. I'm good now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Cool. It should only need baking if the tape is getting sticky / gooey. The binder starts to go, and baking the tape at around 130 degrees or so for a few hours in a dry heat (can't use a gas oven!) fixes things for long enough to transfer the tape without it sticking to the tape deck's pinch roller, capstan, heads, etc. It's not only a legit technique, but about the only effective one for tapes with that issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kylen Posted March 29, 2008 Members Share Posted March 29, 2008 Too bad some of us don't find out about baking until the oxide is shedding and the highs have rolled of for some reason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wwwjd Posted April 2, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 2, 2008 dropped off late 80's master tapes today for inspection. I'll post up what they discover if anyone is interested. They were in boxes in a back closet shelf away from breeze, light, radical temps etc, and LOOKED perfectly fine to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nice keetee Posted April 2, 2008 Members Share Posted April 2, 2008 Hopefully you won't have to bake, this is probably more of an issue with tape older than 20 years. 50's 60's etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wwwjd Posted April 2, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 2, 2008 cool. they are definitely not THAT old, and looked very playable to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Hopefully you won't have to bake, this is probably more of an issue with tape older than 20 years. 50's 60's etc. Actually, I've had a ton of Ampex stuff from the 1980's that needed it very badly - they had a particularly bad run of tape during that time period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wwwjd Posted April 2, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 2, 2008 Great! Ampex 456 I take it? ? great hahahahaha either way, they are old songs now and I will be GIVING them away online and on CD after remastering. If I have to use my DAT or VHS "HIFI" masters I could care less. just wanna close that book and work on the new stuff I guess I should be happy I even HAVE those old tapes. .... now about those 2" tracking reels.... GAD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Yeah - Ampex 456 from the 1980's is a known problem tape that frequently needs to be baked before playing it back. The good news is it works like a charm, and causes no damage to the recording... the bad news is that if you put the tape away and then want to replay it next year, you'll probably have to bake it again. But it sounds like that's not going to be a problem for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wwwjd Posted April 3, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 3, 2008 the tapes play okay, but the edges are not so good, starting to decay or something. they said we'd need to do it inhouse, and playback - clean the path, repeat, do that a bunch. so for about $190 [3 hours] I get studio time with one of Des Moines's best studios to put my old masters out to 96k digital. works for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Yeah, that's what I'd recommend - get the tapes into the best possible playback condition and then transfer the multitrack files or stereo mixes directly to digital, then store the original masters in a cool, dry place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wwwjd Posted April 14, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 14, 2008 Masters dumped to 88.2k digital. Originals back in the closest. Strangely, it seems the AMPEX 456 tapes from 1989 were fine, but the SCOTCH 226? from 1988 were the ones needing 'Baked'. The studio used a food dehydrator or heater or something, and cooked them a few hours and they played back fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 Masters dumped to 88.2k digital. Originals back in the closest. Strangely, it seems the AMPEX 456 tapes from 1989 were fine, but the SCOTCH 226? from 1988 were the ones needing 'Baked'. The studio used a food dehydrator or heater or something, and cooked them a few hours and they played back fine. A food dehydrator makes a great "tape baker". The trick is that not any old oven will do. Since the issue that causes sticky shed syndrome is water absorption into the binder, it has to be a DRY heat source. A gas fired oven will NOT work, because gas combustion actually releases moisture. So you need a convection oven, electric oven, food dehydrator, etc. I've even rigged up a cardboard box and a blow dryer and meat thermometer and gotten the job done that way before. A good thermometer is also a "must". Bake the tapes in an oven that is too hot and you can damage the tapes; bad things like high frequency loss or even melting can happen. Not good. IMO, the ideal bake temperature is 120, and no more than 130 degrees (Fahrenheit - that's about 48.8 - 54.4 degrees Celsius). The condition of the tape, as well as its thickness will determine the amount of time it takes to properly bake them. There's no real "danger" in going a bit too long, but if you don't go long enough, the tapes will still be sticky and can still be damaged if you try to play them back. For tapes that are not too sticky, I normally go for at least 2-3 hours for 1/4" tapes, 3-4 for 1/2" and 4-6 hours for 1" and 2" tapes. For a really bad set of tapes, you may have to nearly double those times. For storage, I'd recommend sealing the tapes in ziplok type bags and then storing them (in their tape boxes, with their track sheets inside please ) in a cool, dry place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wwwjd Posted April 14, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 14, 2008 Big ZIPLOCs! excellent idea, Phil. I was gonna leave them where they were since it SEEMED to be an ok place, but I was considering SILICA PACKS or something. I'll do the ziploc thing... maybe double them Just glad they are dumped and now I can release them publically and move on. CLOSURE is a good thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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