Members fybindahouse Posted June 13, 2006 Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 If environmental variables can be controlled somewhat (temps in the 70s, low-moderate humidity)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sparky6string Posted June 13, 2006 Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 How long does it take for styrofoam to decompose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fybindahouse Posted June 13, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 That bad, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sparky6string Posted June 13, 2006 Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 I think it depends on how thick it was applied really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members maxnew40 Posted June 13, 2006 Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 The rule of thumb I have used for spraying nitro (this is the same as the reranch rules) is to do no more than three coats per day(more than that will cause curing problems). After the last clear coat most people wait 3 -4 weeks before wet sanding and polishing. I can usually get by with 2 weeks. You can also check a spot that will be hidden with a pickguard with your fingernail to see how hard it is. (if your fingernail leaves an impression it is still too soft) This is how it works with reranch nitro I have head that some other brands may harden slower or faster. What brand did you use and what kind of spraying schedule did you use (How many coats per day how long between coats and so on)? Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fybindahouse Posted June 14, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Originally posted by maxnew40 The rule of thumb I have used for spraying nitro (this is the same as the reranch rules) is to do no more than three coats per day(more than that will cause curing problems). After the last clear coat most people wait 3 -4 weeks before wet sanding and polishing. I can usually get by with 2 weeks. You can also check a spot that will be hidden with a pickguard with your fingernail to see how hard it is. (if your fingernail leaves an impression it is still too soft) This is how it works with reranch nitro I have head that some other brands may harden slower or faster. What brand did you use and what kind of spraying schedule did you use (How many coats per day how long between coats and so on)? Max Well, I got the ReRanch directions and I was thinking of getting my finishing supplies from them. It seems that there and on StewMac they claim you can do your finish polishing and stuff after like a week or two, but the finish won't be totally cured for months or even years ( ) This will be my first guitar finishing experiment (I've done furniture with poly finishes before but that's a whole different animal ) so I'm going to try to follow the ReRanch directions to the letter. Have you used the ReRanch stuff? How long did you wait for the final steps? Thanks for your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rich Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 My Gibson R7 is an '02 model and it's still sticky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fybindahouse Posted June 14, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Originally posted by Rich My Gibson R7 is an '02 model and it's still sticky. :eek: :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members larryguitar Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Ever see an old Gibby with the finish all checked and cracking off? That's when it's dry-seriously. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fybindahouse Posted June 14, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Well, I guess totally dry is one thing . . . but how long does it take to get to the point where you can play it without really messing it up? Maybe I should go poly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members No Soul Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Originally posted by Rich My Gibson R7 is an '02 model and it's still sticky. thats not quite whats at hand here, but I know how that goes. I played the crap out of my 04 and she still is a bit tackly feeling. Does Re-Ranch only sell their stuff in spray cans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Funderbunk Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Depends a lot on where you live and what kind of conditions you're curing in. Some of the dudes on the ReRanch forums are able to get to final polish in two weeks or so; then again, they live in Arizona or some place like that where humidity is ridiculously low. Others (like myself) aren't so lucky. Probably one of the cheapest insurance policies I've gotten was picking up a cheap ass, banged up pawn shop axe. Not to refinish, but so I'd have something to dink with while bodies are curing. It can be very very tempting to rush things... particularly when the body is sprayed, and you've got all the other parts sitting in a box just waiting. As one wise ReRancher said, "there are two things you can't have enough of when finishing a guitar - patience, and pickguard screws". Another thing I would stress, that I don't really remember seeing on ReRanch 101 - dry fit everything first before you start spraying! It would suck majorly to do all that prep, do all that finishing, do all that waiting, only to find out when you went to put it together that the neck pocket needs a bit of sanding or something... Seriously, if you are in any kind of rush, you might want to rethink nitro. With nitro, the longer the better. I've never heard anyone have a problem because they waited too long for final polishing - but I've heard several who didn't wait long enough. Poly can be intimidating, because of the equipment involved, so you might want to make friends with someone who works in a body shop, and see if you can convince them to spray it for a case of beer or something.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 555 Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 The answer is six months. That doesn't mean that you have to wait that long to do the next step. One week between coats is ideal, but nearly impossible to do in the real world. Three days between coats is excellent. One day between coats is what usually happens, with pretty good results.But it takes six months to cure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fybindahouse Posted June 14, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Originally posted by Funderbunk Depends a lot on where you live and what kind of conditions you're curing in. Some of the dudes on the ReRanch forums are able to get to final polish in two weeks or so; then again, they live in Arizona or some place like that where humidity is ridiculously low. Others (like myself) aren't so lucky. Probably one of the cheapest insurance policies I've gotten was picking up a cheap ass, banged up pawn shop axe. Not to refinish, but so I'd have something to dink with while bodies are curing. It can be very very tempting to rush things... particularly when the body is sprayed, and you've got all the other parts sitting in a box just waiting. As one wise ReRancher said, "there are two things you can't have enough of when finishing a guitar - patience, and pickguard screws". Another thing I would stress, that I don't really remember seeing on ReRanch 101 - dry fit everything first before you start spraying! It would suck majorly to do all that prep, do all that finishing, do all that waiting, only to find out when you went to put it together that the neck pocket needs a bit of sanding or something... Seriously, if you are in any kind of rush, you might want to rethink nitro. With nitro, the longer the better. I've never heard anyone have a problem because they waited too long for final polishing - but I've heard several who didn't wait long enough. Poly can be intimidating, because of the equipment involved, so you might want to make friends with someone who works in a body shop, and see if you can convince them to spray it for a case of beer or something.. Good advice I wouldn't be in a rush per se, but I don't want to wait over a month to get a playable guitar (OK . . . maybe a bit of a rush ) I've been reading a bunch about nitro vs. poly in some threads around here and I can't say that I'm dead set on nitro, but I can't afford the equipment to spray poly. I'd have to get nitro in cans or maybe brush poly I don't know how that'd come out. I was reading about waterbase brushing varnish on stewmac's site and that looks like it might be an option. I've done some brushing on furniture with some good results. I think you can do your final polishing after about a week (although it says that about nitro too ) I'm definitely open to ideas cause there are too many variables!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members strat_predator Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 I have a handmade guitar with a satin nitro finish on it. It feels sticky/tacky to the touch and I can easily put little indents in the finish with my finger nail (moreso on the body...the neck feels harder). So this finish isn't cured yet? Is this bad? The guitar was finished at least 6 months ago. Are there any health hazards in playing a guitar with a sticky, non-cured finish? I know that nitro is restricted for health reasons (but I assume that is from spraying it and breathing it in). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members No Soul Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Originally posted by strat_predator Are there any health hazards in playing a guitar with a sticky, non-cured finish? I know that nitro is restricted for health reasons (but I assume that is from spraying it and breathing it in). only because of the solvents from when it is sprayed.Its safe now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarNed Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Time for full cure of nitro finish: minimum 1 year. I am serious. That means final hardness, full stability, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members al russo Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 i've used automotive laquers. i actually gave a guitar a final sanding and complete polishing including swirl remover one day after the final spraying. It worked out fine. One thing w/automotive laquers though. If u are going to polish it one day after final spraying, u should leave the guitar out for a couple of weeks so that the laquer can cure. Sometimes if u do a final sanding and polishing the day after final spraying the laquer can dull out a bit. I was still able to play the guitar after the polishing but i made sure i left it out for a couple of weeks. Unless you are forced to do this, it is still better to wait a couple weeks for the final polishing. In the 70s' when they still used laquer in auto body shops, they couldn't wait weeks to do a final. They sanded and polished the day after the last coat of laquer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members maxnew40 Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 If you wait 4 weeks after the final coat of clear and you follow the rule of no more than 3 coats per day with a few hours between coats you can wetsand, polish and play. I have done this with 4 guitars now and I am working on number 5 right now. I only use reranch products because I don't have any spary equipment. Reranch is the real thing the clear will even yellow like the old stuff over many years. Nitro will continue to get harder for many years however Fender and Gibson never waited even four weeks before polishing and shipping when they were using nitro (Gibson still does use nitro on some guitars and fender mostly custom shop stuff). I say wait 4 weeks and then wetsand and polish and then play that sucker. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members No Soul Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Originally posted by maxnew40 (Gibson still does use nitro on some guitars and fender mostly custom shop stuff). gibson uses laquer on everything, save models that have SL in the name, which stands for sans laquer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members maxnew40 Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 There are lots of different kinds of laquer, does Gibson still use Nitrocellulose Laquer on all those models? I really don't know myself. I do know that even the nitro that they use is different from the old stuff it has UV inhibitors to prevent yellowing and some sort of elastisizer to prevent checking. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members No Soul Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Originally posted by maxnew40 There are lots of different kinds of laquer, does Gibson still use Nitrocellulose Laquer on all those models? I really don't know myself. I do know that even the nitro that they use is different from the old stuff it has UV inhibitors to prevent yellowing and some sort of elastisizer to prevent checking.Max they call it "nitro" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members walt0915 Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Originally posted by fybindahouse Good advice I wouldn't be in a rush per se, but I don't want to wait over a month to get a playable guitar (OK . . . maybe a bit of a rush ) I've been reading a bunch about nitro vs. poly in some threads around here and I can't say that I'm dead set on nitro, but I can't afford the equipment to spray poly. I'd have to get nitro in cans or maybe brush poly I don't know how that'd come out. I was reading about waterbase brushing varnish on stewmac's site and that looks like it might be an option. I've done some brushing on furniture with some good results. I think you can do your final polishing after about a week (although it says that about nitro too ) I'm definitely open to ideas cause there are too many variables!!! Seriously, if you do finishing, the best thing is don't be in a hurry. Give it one more sanding, one more polishing, take your time. Make sure everything is right. It took me 3 months to finish by Strat - because after 5 weeks I fucked up and rather than leave the little imperfection in there I stripped and started over. The more time you are willing to take, the more likely you'll get a great finish. If you are in a hurry, or don't care if its an outstanding finish, don't use nitro - that's for those who want the best finish they can get. rather than poly, try an acrylic laquer - automotive laquers - they are faster and still look great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lowbrow Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 My advice.....do what I did. Drop something on it during final assembly. I fumbled the trem claw, it hit the upper bout and took a chip out of the fiesta red nitro on my strat. Not big, but noticible. However, now that it's "reliced", I am not really afriad to pick it up and play whenever I want. That one little chip pretty much cured me of wanting to treat it like a show piece. Oh...and I put the last coats of paint on mine in early march, rubbed it out in late May...and it's still "tacky" feeling. Nature of the beast me thinks. Apparently there was a popular British saying...somewhat unrelated...from early WWII. They used to finish early Spitfires and Hurricanes in enamel. When asked how long it took them to dry, the reply was..."till it collects enough dust it stops feeling tacky". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sufidancer Posted June 15, 2006 Members Share Posted June 15, 2006 I have finshed and assembled many guitars. And when first starting out I wondered what is the facination with this finish? I mean the reason Leo Fender used it because it was cheap and abundant as a car finish. But there seems to be some mojo associated with it. So I went to reranch and bought 4 rattle cans of copper and did my tele. I let it cure for many months. and when finished the shine was so deep I could watch tv through it. Nitro is always in a state of flux. I have had little dings and scratches over time dissapear or reabsorb. I think that Fender hit on by accident the perfect paint for his guitars, and Caddys had they're fenders painted with it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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