How in the hell do the pro's get such a larger than life sound with everything?

[nerol1st]

So I digress and simply state:

 

Huge Guitars: Tight players that can at least thrown down 2 identicle tracks (not just copy paste), A good guitar, a good amp, and a dash of patience.

 

Huge vocals: Good singers who warm up and have good intonation, alot of patience, layering parts and a good signal line including the right mic for the voice.

[scud133]

"it all starts with the microphone" (and mic placement):

Heil Mic Primer PDF

[MarkGifford-1]

 

1 dash high end recording equipment. 3 cup of exsperience (actually you can be as generous as you want here). 1 cup of band that is TIGHT in their playing. 2 cups of good sounding room. 1 dash of high end sources (aka amps etc) 50 tons of sitting thier for hours tweaking EQs, compressors, reeverbs, etc till you get it just right.

 

 

I'd have to say 50 tons of a good band, playing a great song.

 

Do some trick specific to whatever genre you're recording, so it has a familiar sound.

 

If you've got that, it'll mix itself.

 

Seriously, no magic involved. Bring up the faders, do a little tweaking and done.

 

The better the band and songs, the better an engineer you are...

 

MG

[Deeprig9]

I think vocals should be done alot (at least tripled if not more), for me personally nothing says demo more than just having one vox track in the center. Bear in mind this only pertains to the OP situation (there are other genres where I don't see the point). Although I am not one to talk thats all I record (demos) so yeah... Re: Reamping: I always reamp. If I was in a situation where I could isolate the amp enough then I wouldn't, but everytime I have tried in the past to go strait from the amp (without a DI) it was to hard for the guitarist to really hear his/herself. Plus I don't run the risk of someone wanting to use thier Line 6 spider 2 weener combo (lol). Also: Later when I do the reamping (95% by myself, I actually choose the tone ) I can take my time with the mic placement, not have to worry about someone bumping the mic, and the noise in the line is WAY lower (pickup hum is non exsistant, just the normal hiss of the amp).

 

That's why Gilmore has his own noiseless active pickups from EMG.

[Todzilla]

 

Because reamping isn't really a necessary component for getting a big sound. Most people resort to re-amping because they're forced to track in an environment where they can't use an actual amp. If you are going for a big guitar sound, you'd be better off recording extra passes with different amps instead of reamping the same take 3 times.

 

 

Reamping and combining successive passes of the same guitar part are completely different techniques.

 

Plus, your implication that reamping involves one amp is missing the point.

 

I'm not championing reamping as the best way to give a huge guitar sound. I'm just saying it's one of many tools in the arsenal and provides flexibility that multi-pass recording doesn't.

[newlyformedmind]

 

I'd have to say 50 tons of a good band, playing a great song. Do some trick specific to whatever genre you're recording, so it has a familiar sound. If you've got that, it'll mix itself. Seriously, no magic involved. Bring up the faders, do a little tweaking and done. The better the band and songs, the better an engineer you are... MG

 

 

I have great players that are assisting me in playing some of the harder guitar parts, great bass player, flawless drumming and some great gear to help me out.

 

As far as an 1176 or a distressor- I don't really have the money after purchasing all my acoustic material, a brand new Oktava M-319 modded, a rode NTK, API A2D, Mesa Boogie dual rectifier, PRS Custom 24, old school Gibson Les Paul Deluxe. I have the bomb factory 1176 plugin, but not sure what plugin is best for pro vocals. I do have tons of plugins. Sounds like the key is to have a great signal chain and definitely do some guitar and vocal layering. Which is nothing new for me, but it's hard to make the 2nd or 3rd vocal parts all sound like one. I have the Waves Doubler that might fatten things up.

 

When you all sing or your clients sing, how far from the mic, mic upside down or right side up, sing over the mic or under. Anyone got a good link explaining this. I think I'm clear on getting great drum, bass, and guitar tones for my genre of music. I just need to learn more about mic placement regarding vocals. What effects are used on guys like Coby from Papa Roach. He sounds amazing in the studio, and terrible live. I have all the time in the world to get things to track the best I can, and hire a great mixer and masterer most skilled in working with hard rock bands

[UstadKhanAli]

Most of us will put the mic upside down if it's a tube mic so that the heat rises away from the diaphragm. Whether this matters or not, I'm not sure, but it's how I was taught, and 'sides...it makes me feel better.

 

As far as mic placement with vocals, I usually try and place the mic straight on with their mouth, but slightly off-axis. However, there's a lot of variations on this, though. Depending on the song and singer and singer's technique, you can have the mic on-axis but with a pop filter (I use a Stedman metal louvered pop filter sometimes, but you should know that this, too, alters the sound of the vocal, if somewhat subtlely), particularly if your vocalist doesn't hit the "S" and "T" hard and isn't too erratic. You can raise/lower the mic, which changes the vocal characteristics slightly, which is okay if you like what you hear. Then, of course, there's the distance of the mic. And again, it depends. Depends on the song, the singer, and the room you're in mostly. If the singer is good, I'll let him/her "work the mic", moving in for the more intimate vocal passages and out and away when s/he lets loose with high or more intense vocal parts. If the singer is erratic in vocal technique and singing, I'll generally put the mic farther away and off-axis. I also use a couple of RealTraps MiniTraps to record the vocals, surrounding the mic as best I can to take out some of the reflections of the room (and to hang lyric sheets on...see what a useful product you make, Ethan? ). And finally, depending on whether your mic can do this, there's the choices of omni or cardioid. Or in my case, since I have an LDC with variable polar patterns, it's a matter of having the singer sing while I slowly turn the knob and listen to how the voice changes, selecting the best setting for the song/vocalist.

 

Depending on the song, I'll choose between a couple of LDCs, a 421, or a 57. This obviously has a dramatic change on the vocal sound. But sometimes, a 421 or 57 is what you need. Generally speaking, I tend to use the LDCs, but sometimes, the 421 or 57 sound better for male rock vocals, especially for cutting through dense mixes. It just depends, too, on the feel of the song.

 

I'll usually have the vocal go through a Neve Portico (which I may or may not set to Silk Mode), after which, I may or may not send it through an FMR RNLA. Depends on the sound I'm after. If I have to de-ess even after keeping the mic off-axis, I use a Waves De-Esser. I'll also use a Waves RCompressor with just a little but of compression just to tighten up the vocal even more if necessary, but only after I've performed some vocal automation beforehand.

[wwwjd]

Compressing and limited. Done.

[UstadKhanAli]

Ahhhh, who knew it was that easy to get a great vocal sound?

[mr_pillow]

Apparently it's common knowledge in Des Moines.

 

If only word had gotten out sooner =(

[Dean Roddey]

 

Most of us will put the mic upside down if it's a tube mic so that the heat rises away from the diaphragm. Whether this matters or not, I'm not sure, but it's how I was taught, and 'sides...it makes me feel better.

 

 

Yeh, it makes me feel more like a rock star, and anything that does that is probably a good thing from a performance standpoint. This is why I always have the cucumber in the pants when I record, even in the studio.

[UstadKhanAli]

Making singers feel like rock stars:

 

I did this once for a singer who was more performance-oriented: I set up some super loud speakers out where she was recording and cranked 'em, and had the vocalist sing in front of people with a hand-held mic at night with dim mood lighting. I got a monster vocal take. Before, all her takes were really not vibey. Anyway, sonically, the performance-oriented vocal take wasn't as good, but she sang soooo much better that no one cared.

[wwwjd]

 

Apparently it's common knowledge in Des Moines. If only word had gotten out sooner =(

 

 

hehehehe you guys are brutal... yet, strangely appealing! I'll do what I can to keep all of you informed of technological developments

[UstadKhanAli]

Did someone else mention this technique?

 

I learned it from Peter Gabriel. Not in person, you understand...

 

Take a harmonizer (he uses Eventide, shouldn't we all be so lucky), and on copying a couple of other tracks (or channels, depending on how you are working), pitch one several cents down, the other several cents up. Blend to taste. Instant fattener. You should be able to do this with various pitch-oriented plug-ins or other devices as well. You want to make it sound fatter without sounding "obvious" or "odd" unless, of course, you are NOT going after a natural sound.

[UstadKhanAli]

hehehehe you guys are brutal... yet, strangely appealing! I'll do what I can to keep all of you informed of technological developments

 

We're a bunch of smart-asses is what we are...

 

I can never get away with anything on these forums. And that's the way it should be!!!

[wwwjd]

hahahahaha I thought my reply was short and to the point compared to the paragrpahs detailing out actual methods

[nerol1st]

Most of us will put the mic upside down if it's a tube mic so that the heat rises away from the diaphragm. Whether this matters or not, I'm not sure, but it's how I was taught, and 'sides...it makes me feel better.

 

It did used to be a real issue (older Nuemann mics come to mind) I doubt it still is, but better to air on the safe side right?

[Dean Roddey]

 

but better to air on the safe side right?

 

 

Was that a purposeful pun?

[UstadKhanAli]

You know, having the mic upside down evokes MTV videos and that kind of stuff, so why not? And hot air does rise, so it makes sense to continue doing it since it doesn't really matter whether it's upside down or not anyway. And yeah, that's hopefully a great pun!!

[UstadKhanAli]

hahahahaha I thought my reply was short and to the point compared to the paragrpahs detailing out actual methods

 

Yeah. You ever thought of writing an article on achieving a great big large vocal sound?

 

"Compress. Limit. Done."

[DontLetMeDrown]

Plus, your implication that reamping involves one amp is missing the point...

 

I never said ANYTHING even remotely close. Sounds like YOU are missing MY point. Maybe you should re-read and fully comprehend my post before you try to criticize my advice.

[newlyformedmind]

Did someone else mention this technique? I learned it from Peter Gabriel. Not in person, you understand... Take a harmonizer (he uses Eventide, shouldn't we all be so lucky), and on copying a couple of other tracks (or channels, depending on how you are working), pitch one several cents down, the other several cents up. Blend to taste. Instant fattener. You should be able to do this with various pitch-oriented plug-ins or other devices as well. You want to make it sound fatter without sounding "obvious" or "odd" unless, of course, you are NOT going after a natural sound.

 

That's a great idea Ustad. I don't have any Eventide outboard gear (I've yet to win the lotto) but I do have my pitch shifter plugin that came with Waves so I believe I could try that. I know compressing and limiting is important but for the dude who wrote " Compress.. Limit. Done.. I hardly think so. How bout the room, the mic, the pre, the song's potential, flawless playing or at least editing so it is, getting the best take pitch wise but being even more concerned with the energy of the performance. Let's face it, Auto Tune does make a {censored}ty singer sound ok. Ok to my ears, {censored} no. To other audio guys like me, I think not- but for the masses who buy records- as long as they hear the song in pitch and it's a decent tune- it seems to get some airplay atleast. I will be using my API 2AD tonight through the RNC and test both my Rode NTK, and Oktava M-139 with Floating Dome Mod. Phil, if you see this- I'd like to discuss a few things. PM me when you get a chance buddy. Thanks to all of you who stood somewhat by the subject.

[nerol1st]

Um, thanks a bunch Todzilla. I've reamped MANY various sources over the last 4 years. I'm pretty sure I understand what reamping is. I was emphasizing the difference between multiple AMPS with SAME signal vs. multiple TAKES with multiple AMPS. I never said ANYTHING even remotely close. Sounds like YOU are missing MY point. Maybe you should re-read and fully comprehend my post before you try to criticize my advice.

 

 

Pwnt.

[joncyberboy]

Those big vocals seem to have a LOt of compression. Lots of high end enhancement too and very subtle uses of reverb and delat thickening it. Maybe a very low mixed double track too.

[Todzilla]

 

Because reamping isn't really a necessary component for getting a big sound. Most people resort to re-amping because they're forced to track in an environment where they can't use an actual amp. If you are going for a big guitar sound, you'd be better off recording extra passes with different amps instead of reamping the same take 3 times.

 

 

..it sounded to me like you were comparing multi-pass recording on different amps to reamping on a single amp, when of course, lots of folks reamp the same part on multiple amps. Also, lots of folks reamp because they want to separate the performance from the recording.