Members bassgirl9 Posted August 12, 2008 Members Share Posted August 12, 2008 Hi there, I've been spending a bit of time in the studio and I've run into a bit of a snag. The songs sound fantastic in the studio and when I get them home they sound not so good. I've tried the home stereo, the car, the van, the computer... all bad. The songs sound muffled. How much of that gets fixed in the mastering and how do you mix with excellent speakers but for the average home speaker? I don't even know where to start. I'll be asking the engineer guy as well, but I thought I'd ask you guys your opinions. I'd appreciate any advice you might offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kyle DiSanto Posted August 12, 2008 Members Share Posted August 12, 2008 It all depends on who is doing the work. Some guys like to keep their mixes dark and have them brightened at mastering. Personally I like to get my mixes sounding great on all systems before mastering. Why not just ask the engineer or producer doing your work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 I hate to say this, because it might NOT be the cause of your problem, but it sounds like the studio monitoring chain (which includes the monitors as well as the studio control room acoustics) is "lying" to you. The importance of an accurate monitoring system in a studio can not be over-stated IMO. What you're describing sounds like a classic case of mixes not "translating" well - IOW, they sound good in one room, but significantly different every place else. Of course you can't really ever expect things to sound identical on car stereo speakers to what they sound like on a nice pair of studio monitors, but the basic tonality should be similar. If your control room has uncorrected low frequency acoustical issues, you might think your mix has more bass - or less bass - than what's actually on the recordings (depending on whether the mix position is in a null spot or a spot where the bass frequencies are reinforcing), which can affect your level and EQ decisions... resulting in a mix that is either too bright, or too bass-heavy when played elsewhere. Of course, it could be a preference thing on the engineer's part, as ROTINPAIN mentioned, but since you're saying they "sound great" in the studio, but disappointing elsewhere, that seems less likely to me. Do you happen to know what type of control room monitors they're using? As far as your mastering questions - yes, a great M.E. can do wonders, and may indeed be able to address the spectral balance inequities, but ideally you should get your material sounding as good as possible, and as close as possible to what you want the finished product to sound like before you take it to them. Better to make it very good and let them kick it up a notch to great than it is to make it so-so and have them kick it up to "acceptable". I really do not like to diss the work of other engineers, especially when I wasn't there to see what they were given to work with, or haven't even heard the music... maybe it sounds really good and you're just too "close" to it. My advice would be to sit down and discuss it with the engineer and the producer. Be honest about your concerns and discuss your options, and listen to their advice. Maybe a remix, or some re-EQ'ing on the master mixes is in order... however, if they're totally uncooperative or uninterested in hearing your concerns, take it to someone else for a remix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Music Calgary Posted August 12, 2008 Members Share Posted August 12, 2008 Another thought... Sometimes mixes lose their shine between the DAW and CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jackcheez Posted August 12, 2008 Members Share Posted August 12, 2008 I've tried the home stereo, the car, the van, the computer... all bad. These (home, car, computer at work...)are the tests that my mixes have to pass before I call them done. They're usually close, but often something is revealed that requires attention. What I don't understand in your case is why the difference is so big. I would never assume that it would be fixable during mastering. Your mixes should sound like you want them to sound. Then they're ready to be mastered. Work with your engineer on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassgirl9 Posted August 12, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 12, 2008 Better to make it very good and let them kick it up a notch to great than it is to make it so-so and have them kick it up to "acceptable". Totally. I am going to talk to him about it, I was just honestly way too naive about the mixing and mastering process to know where to start. For all I knew, it could sound like garbage at home until you master it. Thank you so much for your answer. It really helps and will allow me a place to start to get these mixes sounding good and will go a long way to saving me some studio time money in the long run. The studio and our engineer are top notch, I know I'll be super happy happy with them after our second visit. Again, thanks so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassgirl9 Posted August 12, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 12, 2008 These (home, car, computer at work...)are the tests that my mixes have to pass before I call them done. They're usually close, but often something is revealed that requires attention. What I don't understand in your case is why the difference is so big. I would never assume that it would be fixable during mastering. Your mixes should sound like you want them to sound. Then they're ready to be mastered. Work with your engineer on it. Thanks dude, Will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chris carter Posted August 12, 2008 Members Share Posted August 12, 2008 Mixes not translating could be coming from one or more problem areas. 1) Room acoustics. This is a common culprit and it's the reason why I have an ASSLOAD of rigid fiberglass in my studio. It doesn't matter how good you are as a mixer - if the room sounds like ass you'll be like a dog chasing it's tail. Althlough, you say it's an awesome studio, so it's unlikely this is the problem. So that brings me to item number..... 2) I hate to say it, but TALENT. Believe it or not, just because a mix sounds good in a studio with good acoustics DOES NOT mean it will translate well. The reality is that just about anyone, provided they know how to work the equipment, can make a mix sound good IN the studio. The trick is to make it sound good in that wonderful audio room AND make it sound good on a home stereo, in a car and on crappy computer speakers which have severely hampered playback abilities. This is what separates the men and women from the boys and girls. I've been in plenty of AWESOME studios with an engineer who cranks out total garbage. All of my clients have as well (which is why they now use me!). And as Phil mentioned 3) It's possible that you might be one of those people who expects too much from your music. Of all the records I've done, I haven't run into too many of these folks (maybe one borderline person). But it would be wise to self-evaluate just to remove yourself as the culprit here. BTW - I firmly believe that making a mix intentionally dark so the ME can brighten it up in mastering, or the opposte, is total utter crap. In my opinion you should be able to take your final mix and stick a limiter on it and be able to say, "I could live with it going on my album just like that". Others may disagree, but that's how I work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassgirl9 Posted August 12, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 12, 2008 And as Phil mentioned 3) It's possible that you might be one of those people who expects too much from your music. Of all the records I've done, I haven't run into too many of these folks (maybe one borderline person). But it would be wise to self-evaluate just to remove yourself as the culprit here. Fair enough. My performance is certainly better live, I'll agree 100% to that. A certain amount of the lack of sparkle on the disk will certainly be performance. Singing and playing bass to a bunch of dancers is considerably different than singing to a glass window with a set of headphones on. I guess, my ultimate question is "I know there is some added sparkle to a recording after mastering, how much though?- Am I expecting too much from the mixing process or do I need to work some more?" At any rate, I'm thinking they need some more work, but the answers thus far have probably saved me about 500 dollars worth studio time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted August 12, 2008 Moderators Share Posted August 12, 2008 It should sound awesome at the mixing stage. You should be completely jazzed. Mastering will only make it so across all systems if there's an issue. But by and large, if you're not hearing it now, you need to remix. Possibly take your project to a better mixer/room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kyle DiSanto Posted August 12, 2008 Members Share Posted August 12, 2008 Everyone really went into great detail as to what your issues could be, howevern this is all just speculation. Can you post an MP3 for us to critique? While the MP3 won't be the best form of the song...it will help KYLE D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 There's a link in her sig that leads to her Myspace page... I've only checked it out on my laptop (cruddy speakers FTL!), but I like her voice and their style / vibe. The mixes did sound pretty "distant" to me, but again, it could be just my cruddy laptop speakers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kyle DiSanto Posted August 12, 2008 Members Share Posted August 12, 2008 Ill check out the page when iget to my comp...on the black berry right now Edit: The mixes definitly sound distant and a tad muffled...Mastering could bring out some of those Highs, but I would work at getting them to sound a bit better first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassgirl9 Posted August 12, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 12, 2008 The myspace ones are unmixed (and yet still way better than anything I've done at home) I'll get a mixed copy of a rock tune up so you can hear it on my webpage... as soon as I can get it to upload. EDIT: an hour later and I've had no success... I dont know what's going on. I'll try again after supper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kyle DiSanto Posted August 12, 2008 Members Share Posted August 12, 2008 Cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassgirl9 Posted August 13, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 13, 2008 Pft. My Website still wont load. The Myspace is updated. http://www.myspace.com/evehellandtherazors Now while you're there, please keep in mind that I'm totally happy with my recording studio. In no way do I want the thought that I might be unhappy with the guys I'm working with to cross anyone's mind or get back to them. I just needed some outside opinions and some extra information so I can save us some time. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 bassgirl, I would be PLENTY ticked off if I ever found out that someone unaffiliated with the studio or your project contacted your studio and relayed what was said here. That would be extremely tacky and unprofessional... However, I can make no guarantees that they won't see it here themselves, or that someone they know might see it and say something about it. However, I don't think you've said anything here that would suggest that you're dissatisfied with them, so even if that were to happen, I think you're in the clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassgirl9 Posted August 13, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 13, 2008 Thanks. Yeah I hope so. It's funny because I originally went in to just do a basic demo, I really wasn't expecting too much from only 3 days.... boy was I surprised at the quality! We're now onto a full length CD etc.etc. simply because I was sooo impressed with them and the raw tracks. Ha ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members T. Alan Smith Posted August 13, 2008 Members Share Posted August 13, 2008 It should sound awesome at the mixing stage. You should be completely jazzed. Mastering will only make it so across all systems if there's an issue. But by and large, if you're not hearing it now, you need to remix. Possibly take your project to a better mixer/room. Agreed. If you like tracking with these guys at their studio, maybe keep the door open to mixing in a different studio(??). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Synonym Music Posted August 13, 2008 Members Share Posted August 13, 2008 The drums and amps are very, very dark sounding and muffled as you mentioned, bassgirl9. Those are definitely the biggest culprits; sure you could go with more upfront compression on the vocals and make them all bright and shiny, but they actually sound fine where they are. I would certainly expect some overcompensation when brightening up the other instruments, though. It also needs more refined levels. The groove's pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members whitepapagold Posted August 13, 2008 Members Share Posted August 13, 2008 I'll try again after supper. You use the word supper. Thats AWESOME! The engineer is at fault- 100%. BUT are you paying real tracking money or is it a "friends"or budget studio? If thats a real studio with decent gear and not 100% in the box (all in protools)- then your engineer sucks.... If you are paying 50 an hour or less- its all good. A decent master would help but you cant boost whats not there to begin with. Seriously, I would never have responded had you not used the word supper- I love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuzzball Posted August 13, 2008 Members Share Posted August 13, 2008 I hate to say this, because it might NOT be the cause of your problem, but it sounds like the studio monitoring chain (which includes the monitors as well as the studio control room acoustics) is "lying" to you. The importance of an accurate monitoring system in a studio can not be over-stated IMO. What you're describing sounds like a classic case of mixes not "translating" well - IOW, they sound good in one room, but significantly different every place else. Of course you can't really ever expect things to sound identical on car stereo speakers to what they sound like on a nice pair of studio monitors, but the basic tonality should be similar. If your control room has uncorrected low frequency acoustical issues, you might think your mix has more bass - or less bass - than what's actually on the recordings (depending on whether the mix position is in a null spot or a spot where the bass frequencies are reinforcing), which can affect your level and EQ decisions... resulting in a mix that is either too bright, or too bass-heavy when played elsewhere. Of course, it could be a preference thing on the engineer's part, as ROTINPAIN mentioned, but since you're saying they "sound great" in the studio, but disappointing elsewhere, that seems less likely to me. Do you happen to know what type of control room monitors they're using? As far as your mastering questions - yes, a great M.E. can do wonders, and may indeed be able to address the spectral balance inequities, but ideally you should get your material sounding as good as possible, and as close as possible to what you want the finished product to sound like before you take it to them. Better to make it very good and let them kick it up a notch to great than it is to make it so-so and have them kick it up to "acceptable". I really do not like to diss the work of other engineers, especially when I wasn't there to see what they were given to work with, or haven't even heard the music... maybe it sounds really good and you're just too "close" to it. My advice would be to sit down and discuss it with the engineer and the producer. Be honest about your concerns and discuss your options, and listen to their advice. Maybe a remix, or some re-EQ'ing on the master mixes is in order... however, if they're totally uncooperative or uninterested in hearing your concerns, take it to someone else for a remix. +10000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuzzball Posted August 13, 2008 Members Share Posted August 13, 2008 I will give the mix a listen tomorrow on better speakers before I give my $.02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassgirl9 Posted August 13, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 13, 2008 You use the word supper. Thats AWESOME! . That's hilarious. I've never really thought about it. I suppose most say 'dinner' now.[/old fashioned gal] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassgirl9 Posted August 13, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 13, 2008 Agreed. If you like tracking with these guys at their studio, maybe keep the door open to mixing in a different studio(??). For sure. I'll give it another go and we'll what happens with a few more hours put in. I'm sure it'll turn around though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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