Why no buzz about this microphone?

[Rubber Lizard]

When I see a new piece of gear that looks interesting I usually search the net and these pages for references and reviews. If the gear is actually decent it'll generate at least a little buzz. So as I researched my next mic I considered the AKG C 214. My buddy loves his 414, and I like things he's recorded with it. The few reviewers I read said that the 214 does actually sound a lot like the 414 while costing considerably less. If that's the case, why don't I find more people mentioning this mic? (I searched the HC forums without a single hit). Anybody got a clue (people keep telling me to get one)?

[UstadKhanAli]

Hmmm, you're right, I don't recall hearing people buzzing about this.

 

Here's a GearSlutz thread about the very same thing!

[wwwjd]

I believe it is a newly released mic and maybe not many have tried it yet?

[Rubber Lizard]

Thanks Ken and wwwjd. I guess it is really new. Didn't have time to read the whole GS thread yet, but I will. I'm looking for an interesting mic at $600, and this one seems to fit.

[Rubber Lizard]

Well dang. I got to work and, due to weather, there's nothing to do until afternoon. So I'll follow up on this thread.

 

The C 414 was considered to be a "swiss army knife" of mics at one time, but back in the day there weren't as many mics as there are now. I'm trying to sort out the "legend of the 414" from the reality today. And my budget is firm, $600 without marital problems. I record vocals and acoustic guitar a lot. Bass and keys go direct, mostly. So a nicer LDC is my goal. Can I, in your opinion, do better than the AKG C 214?

 

My little stable of mics is modest. A Blue Baby Bottle, Cad E200, Studio Projects C1, some Crown CM700's, and couple of cheap ribbons. So, for 600 bucks I should be able to get something pretty nice by comparison.

[MrJoshua]

There aren't a lot of mics in that pricerange that I have much experience with, but if you want a good vocal mic I'd suggest taking a look at a Shure SM-7b. It's well under your price cap, which the wife will like, and it's a nice, full-sounding microphone.

 

I'd suggest a Blue Baby Bottle, but you already have one.

 

As far as mics I haven't personally used, the Audio-Technica AT4050 gets good reviews. I've used one of their cheaper condensors and found it to be quite nice for the money. I'd look into that if I was looking at something in that price range. I've also had very good results with Groove Tubes products in the past (I own a Brick preamp and a SuPre two-channel preamp and like them both a lot), so I might look at their MD1B or GT60 mic also. I've heard pretty good things about the Shure KSM-32 as well. I'd be pretty surprised if all of those weren't pretty good options for home studio work.

 

edit: The Rode NTK is also in your pricerange, and that's a mic I do own. It has a hyped high end, which so many mics in this price range seem to have, but it can be a solid choice for male vocals. It's a little brash and forward (I hate trying to describe a sound - those words may bring a completely different sound to your mind that what I'm trying to say) to my ears, but with the right voice that can be a good thing. If possible, find somewhere that you can try some of these out.

[Phil O'Keefe]

It is indeed a newly released product - it appears to be based on the latest version of the C414, but cardioid only. I have not heard it yet, so no comment regarding its sound.

[Lee Flier]

The C 414 was considered to be a "swiss army knife" of mics at one time, but back in the day there weren't as many mics as there are now. I'm trying to sort out the "legend of the 414" from the reality today. And my budget is firm, $600 without marital problems.

 

:lol:

 

 

I record vocals and acoustic guitar a lot. Bass and keys go direct, mostly. So a nicer LDC is my goal. Can I, in your opinion, do better than the AKG C 214?

 

Well, I think the 414 doesn't get as much love as it used to because, as you say, there are all these other mics around now that claim to be the bees' knees. Like anything else, there are mics that get "fashionable" for a period of time, rightly or wrongly, and then rightly or wrongly something else becomes the "big thing" and last decade's big thing gets ignored. And of course, back when the 414 was considered the "Swiss Army knife" there were generally lots of other mics around that were way more expensive. So people tend not to wax eloquent about them.

 

However, I was a big fan of them back in the day, and still am. Sure, if I have a C12 around I'd rather use that. But you know... they really do sound great on drums. And many vocalists. And a lot of things. Given a choice beween a 414 and say, a U87, even "back in the day" I usually reached for the 414.

 

So if the 214 does in fact sound like the 414, that's great. Most of the other newer mics in that price range, like MrJoshua said, are a bit brittle sounding and hyped in the upper mids. I'm pretty sensitive to that and it gets annoying. The 414 doesn't get annoying.

 

So then the next question becomes, do you care about multiple pickup patterns? I would - I use figure 8 or omni quite a lot for things like acoustic guitars, drums, and backing vocals. So I don't know that I'd buy a 214 for that reason. For $600 I'd probably be looking for a used 414 in good shape.

 

Just my .02.

[albiedamned]

 

Well, I think the 414 doesn't get as much love as it used to because, as you say, there are all these other mics around now that claim to be the bees' knees. Like anything else, there are mics that get "fashionable" for a period of time, rightly or wrongly, and then rightly or wrongly something else becomes the "big thing" and last decade's big thing gets ignored.

 

 

Any boy oh boy does the SM7b seem to be the "fashionable" mic right now.

[the_doctor]

Given a choice beween a 414 and say, a U87, even "back in the day" I usually reached for the 414.

 

Woah... now that`s a statement

 

I have a pair of 414s that I love to death, use on lots of things from spreech and accoustic guitar to orchestral/classical harp and , yes, drums too (a jazzkit with kick-mic and 2 x akg 414 overheads anyone? Yummy!).

I get asked to rent them out by other engineers a lot as well.

 

But a that studio I work at we have a nice mic selection including neumanns, so I often just grab the U87 for vocalists first, simply for its reputation - and granted: 95% of the times it works great. Nonetheless, Lee got me thinking, maybe I should do some direct comparisons

[Lee Flier]

(a jazzkit with kick-mic and 2 x akg 414 overheads anyone? Yummy!).

 

Indeed!

 

But a that studio I work at we have a nice mic selection including neumanns, so I just simply grab the U87 for vocalists first, simply for its great reputation - and granted: 95% of the times it works great. Nonetheless, Lee got me thinking, maybe I should do some direct comparisons

 

Yeah... I try to compare several mics on a singer I've never worked with before, because it always surprises me which mic sounds best on a particular singer. Sometimes it's the one you would never expect.

 

Whether you prefer the U87 or the 414 of course is going to depend on the singer and the style of music... but I find that the U87 is often too bright and present - which sometimes is good if you're recording to analog tape and you want the extra brightness. But with digital, it can get painful. The 414 IMO sounds more natural. If you're recording jazz and the like, going for more traditional sounds you'd be well served to compare them!

 

But then, sometimes a ribbon mic sounds really good on a vocalist, and recently we used Beyer M88's on two vocal tracks and it sounded fantastic. So you just never know.

[Rubber Lizard]

I do have a Studio Projects C1, so I'm covered when it comes to shiny, bright highs. Maybe it is my (lack of) skill as a mixer, but somethimes that helps me keep a vocal clear and on top of the mix. The blue baby is a bit dark, but in a wonderful way.

 

A friend has a U87. It is very dependable, yielding a good sound on lots of sources without having to try every mic in the closet. I'm betting that the 414 was/is a bit like that too, otherwise it wouldn't have the reputaion it has. I'm leaning toward a 214 for that reason, though I could change my mind. I'm not comfortable shopping used mics out here, or I'd look into that.

[the_doctor]

One thing that wasn`t mentioned in this whole discussion so far is that there are several incarnations of the C 414 - while (as always ) the oldest models are considered the "holy grail", there was for example also a recent version (the C 414 B-XL II if I`m not mistaken) that was to follow the current trend in large diaphragm mics and provide some extra highend.

 

I personally sport the silvery anniversary 414s which seem to be more in the vain of the old mics - no exaggerated highs which makes

[Phil O'Keefe]

Woah... now that`s a statement

 

It's not that "out there" IMO... I for one happen to agree with it.

 

Not everyone goes all soft in the knees over U87's. YMMV.

[MrJoshua]

 

Any boy oh boy does the SM7b seem to be the "fashionable" mic right now.

 

 

Maybe, but being "fashionable" doesn't reflect on whether or not it's a good mic.

[Red Ant]

Has anyone tried the Avant Electronics CV-12? I was absolutely blown away by this mics performance and build. I tested it side by side with a pristine C-12 on male vocals, female vocals, acoustic guitars and as a room mic. It came VERY close to the C12... i mean scary close. The high end on the C12 was just a bit more "silky"... but for $500 street, its an insanely great buy. I heard (from a reliable source) that when Massenburg did the test he started cursing and bitching about "what the hell have I spent all this money on C12s for?!?".

 

Highly recommend checking one out.

 

 

And no, I do NOT work for Avant

[Red Ant]

Woah... now that`s a statement It's not that "out there" IMO... I for one happen to agree with it. Not everyone goes all soft in the knees over U87's. YMMV.

 

I don't. I don't much like them in fact. But then I have a 60's 67 Tube, and it pretty much beats an 87 every time

[Lee Flier]

I don't. I don't much like them in fact. But then I have a 60's 67 Tube, and it pretty much beats an 87 every time

 

Well DUH. Yeah, if I had a 60's U67, the 87 would pretty much stay in the closet.

 

Hey, and thanks for the heads-up on the Avant! I will have to check that out, seeing as the C12 is probably my hands down favorite mic if I had to pick one.

[whitepapagold]

One thing that wasn`t mentioned in this whole discussion so far is that there are several incarnations of the C 414 - while (as always ) the oldest models are considered the "holy grail

 

THANK YOU. For a minute I thought the boat left the harbor but this thread got left on the dock...

 

The original 414s had a CK12 capsule THE SAME capsule as the ever overpriced and glorified c12- which sadly deserves the hype if you find one in good condition.

 

That original mic is why the 414 IS EVEN STILL SOLD. And FYI new 414s suck the butts of drunken monkeys. I used an original last night on HH. Trust me.

 

SO, if you like your friends recordings- then get the same mic and have him show you his technique. This cheaper version is exactly that- a new CHEAPER version of a CHEAPER version of an original.

 

Its probably lost some quality at that point, or at least ANY commonality of the original 414.

 

But of course this thread is welcome to steer off into musicians friend land where AKG apparently doesn't make complete pricepoint crap now...

[Lee Flier]

Yeah, I was going to mention that the older 414's are the ones I've always used. Have not tried the new ones but I know there are a couple of different models, and it seems prudent to steer away from the XL-II's if the old model is the sound you want...

[Rubber Lizard]

My friend's 414 has the wierd letters behind it, and it is very dark sounding.

That said, it LOVES his voice. It doesn't love lots of other things.

 

I will read whatever is on the web about the Avant. After all, it *is* red. This kind of thread is very helpful to me, who does not have access to new or different mics on any regular basis. I would have tended toward the 414 because it's a standard with an air of authority. Turns out, most of you with experience don't place much stock in that. On the other hand, I wouldn't want to end up with a bunch of knock-off mics that were the flavor of the month once, so I gotta be careful. I only add about one mic a year to my collection.

[Phil O'Keefe]

I started [but don't think we ever finished ] a "big five vocal mikes" thread, where I went into detail regarding the classic vocal microphones and their descendants and derivatives - which are, IMHO, the AKG C12, Neumann U47, M49 and U67, and the Telefunken [AKG built] ELA M251. IIRC, I went into quite a bit of detail about the history of the C12 and the descendants - including all the C414 models. I'll see if I can find it and bump it for you.

 

The original CK12 capsule in the C414 was replaced with a "new" CK12 capsule sometime around 1982. The two capsules are easily visibly distinguishable. The original CK12's have a brass ring around the diaphragm, while the later CK12's use a white nylon housing construction. Most engineers feel the later capsules are sonically inferior. The last models that used the original CK12 were the C414EB models.

 

I also have extensively tested - and highly praised - the Avant CV-12, and have recommended it here on this forum several times. IMO, it is a far better "all around" mic choice than any other tube mic I've heard in the five hundred bucks or less category. Next to my high end mikes, it compared very well; much better than its [comparatively] low price tag would suggest.

 

I'll see if I can find / bump that too...

[Phil O'Keefe]

Here's some threads with Avant comments from me - some from here, some from the HC Effects Forum -

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2081129&page=3

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?p=31695723

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?t=1890189

[Lee Flier]

This kind of thread is very helpful to me, who does not have access to new or different mics on any regular basis. I would have tended toward the 414 because it's a standard with an air of authority. Turns out, most of you with experience don't place much stock in that.

 

Well, I wouldn't go that far. Most mics that have had a great reputation for a long time have that reputation for a reason. The 414 is certainly one of them, and I think it's as useful today as it ever was (although if the new ones suck, that's something to consider).

 

That being the case, there are some things that just became a "standard" due to reasons that may not apply to you. For instance I think the U87 became popular in part because it's quite bright, and if you were working on overdub #998 on a piece of 2" tape, that might be a good thing. Recording to digital, maybe not so much. Although a lot of today's producers seem to actually like "bright as all hell" stuff that would hurt my ears, so some of it is pure personal preference, too.

 

Just find a place that has a good return policy and audition several. That's the only way you can know for sure.

[Lee Flier]

 

The original CK12 capsule in the C414 was replaced with a "new" CK12 capsule sometime around 1982. The two capsules are easily visibly distinguishable. The original CK12's have a brass ring around the diaphragm, while the later CK12's use a white nylon housing construction. Most engineers feel the later capsules are sonically inferior. The last models that used the original CK12 were the C414EB models.

 

 

That's good to know, Phil, in the event I'm shopping for a 414, which I expect to be some day.

 

 

I also have extensively tested - and highly praised - the Avant CV-12, and have recommended it here on this forum several times. IMO, it is a far better "all around" mic choice than any other tube mic I've heard in the five hundred bucks or less category. Next to my high end mikes, it compared very well; much better than its [comparatively] low price tag would suggest.

 

 

Hmm... I listened to a few clips that some people had posted at Gearslutz and they seemed incredibly bright/hyped. And not in a "C12 pleasing" kind of way, but like most of the other cheap Chinese mics. There were also some comments to the effect that this mic was really an Aphex 460 circuit with some better QC and some red paint.

 

I trust your experience more than a bunch of people I don't know, and I know you and I tend to hear things similarly, but I wonder what your response to this is.