Members endofall Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 Hey Phil I was wondering if you could help me. I have seen in several posts that you recommend the Groove Tubes Brick for a good tube preamp in the lower end range. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 I don't have the Brick, but do have the Peavey VMP-2, which I love. However, you'd have to pick this up used. Why does it have to be tube? What are you looking for in a mic preamp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members endofall Posted January 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 Well it doesn't really have to be tube; I'm more specifically looking for something with a little color. I already have an rnp, the reason I wanted a tube preamp is that I was looking for something to give the guitar tone a little bit of a fatter sound that could be doubled as a good di for bass. I'm really open to any suggestions. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Okieslims Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 http://www.guitarcenter.com/Behringer-Tube-Ultragain-Mic100-Preamp-182482-i1125216.gc this one's cheap and gets a bit of hype. I'm getting it sometime after the 12th of next month..it's back ordered I guess. Ill let ya know how good it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grantlack Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 in the same boat. @ken: what other pres do you have, and where would you put the peavey in the usefulness continuum? what sort of projects does it usually get enlisted for? obviously everything has its own sonic character so "good" or "bad" aren't necessarily appropriate, but versatility and frequency of use are pretty good alternative indicators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 in the same boat. @ken: what other pres do you have, and where would you put the peavey in the usefulness continuum? what sort of projects does it usually get enlisted for? obviously everything has its own sonic character so "good" or "bad" aren't necessarily appropriate, but versatility and frequency of use are pretty good alternative indicators. I love the Peavey VMP-2. I know, I know, it has the name...but it's really a very good mic preamp, very useful on...well, most things. I have two FMR RNPs, the Peavey, and a Neve Portico. They're all quite useful. FMR RNPs are clean, clear, transparent, excellent for the money, and keeps right up with the other mic preamps. I won't get rid of these because they just sound so darn good. I use these on everything, but especially things like kick drums and toms. They're also very nice on vocals and bass. Well, hell, they're nice on everything if you want a clean sound. The Portico is very useful, probably my most useful mic preamp because in terms of sound because it is switchable between Regular Mode and Silk Mode. Silk Mode imparts this fatness and girth. Very nice. Not the cheapest preamp, though. I don't know how much it is now, but I think I got it at its introductory price of $1250 or $1350, and it's a lot more than that now. It also has adjustable high-pass filters which work great, and can be adjusted from 20Hz all the way to 250Hz (or disengaged, of course). I use this the most frequently, and usually have the Silk Mode engaged, especially for vocals, bass, and guitars (not drum overheads). In clean mode, it's quite frankly nice on everything. The Peavey VMP-2 is the most useful in terms of features because in addition to two mic preamps, it also has two DIs in the front and two-band EQ, which is more of a global sort of EQ. It also has bypassable high-pass filters, switchable between 40/80Hz. This also colors the sound and is not super transparent, but not dark and cloudy either. Sorry, it's so hard to describe a mic preamp, y'know? The EQ, for a global EQ, is useful, and running DIs through tube stuff is always useful, I think. I bought it something like ten years ago for $600 used, and I don't know what it goes for now. This was my first really good quality mic preamp. Of these mic preamps, this is the only one that doesn't have metering of any kind. I've never cared about this anyway...I like this on guitars and drum overheads and bass, but you can use it on everything and it works great. I also have a Mackie mixer with VLZ Pro mic preamps. This is, in my opinion, characterless, and compared to all three of these other mic preamps, sounds a little "pinched". All three of the preamps I have are noticeably better and easier to mix afterwards, if that makes any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 Well it doesn't really have to be tube; I'm more specifically looking for something with a little color. I already have an rnp, the reason I wanted a tube preamp is that I was looking for something to give the guitar tone a little bit of a fatter sound that could be doubled as a good di for bass. I'm really open to any suggestions. Thanks The Peavey VMP-2 is a good choice, especially if you can get it for a decent price, as I did. It does have a couple of DIs and is a good quality mic preamp. The Portico does not have a DI, and also does not have EQ. And it's a chunk of change. Nice preamp, but doesn't have as many features as the Peavey. The Portico in Silk Mode is nice, though...you'd probably like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 I don't have a Brick, but I know that Phil really likes it, and everyone says that it's definitely colored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 The Brick is ok, does a good job on bass DI. Turning up the gain will color the sound significantly. The mic preamp doesn't really have enough gain to handle low output dynamic mics like the SM-7b without significant coloration, and really hot condensers like the Blue Baby Bottle will hit the front of the Brick hard enough to add color that you can't get rid of even if you turn the gain all the way down. I tried one out earlier this month, and boxed it up for return last weekend. The UA610 is similar to the Brick, if slightly better for most applications. It has an input and an output gain, so you are not locked in to one particular color for a given mic output signal. I liked it better on bass DI than the Brick, but the difference was very small. The Portico is a beautiful sounding device. Silk mode is . But it doesn't have a DI and it retails for $2K new. Also, as far as the OP, it doesn't use tubes. I sent that one back as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrJoshua Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 I think the Brick is a quality preamp for a reasonable price. The FMR has a more neutral, open sound, making it suitable (in my opinion) for a wider array of sources, while the Brick is a bit more colored. The Brick has a little more low end girth, I think (I always feel stupid trying to describe how preamps "sound") and it smooths the highs out a little more, kind of rounding things off. The FMR is a faster, punchier preamp, capturing more of the transients and giving you a little more bite. I like the Brick with ribbon mics on guitar cabs, sometimes with vocalists, and every once in a while on an acoustic guitar or bass DI (although I almost always wind up using an API for the bass). The FMR sounds great with drums, percussion instruments, and works very well for acoustic instruments and bass. It also sounds great with some singers, when you want to capture a good clean sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 The Portico is a beautiful sounding device. Silk mode is . But it doesn't have a DI and it retails for $2K new. Also, as far as the OP, it doesn't use tubes. I sent that one back as well. Outta curiosity, why did you send it back? Was it the cost? Lack of DI? And crap, I had no idea it was that expensive now. I wish I remembered how much I got it for. It was a lot cheaper than that. I got it for whatever the initial introductory price was a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members albiedamned Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 rsadasiv can give you more details, but he and I got together last weekend to compare preamps - his Portico, Brick, and Great River and my 610 and RNP. Bottom line was that the Great River was the best all around choice. We liked the Portico better for vocals with his SM-7b, but the Great River was only a hair behind, and I think that was the only application we liked it better on (we also did vocals with a Baby Bottle, and we did bass DI and guitar cab). I thinkwe both agreed that the Great River "won" the shootout, so he's keeping it and sending everything else back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flogger59 Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 My buddy has a Brick, it's great on bass, acoustics with a SDC, and thicker vocals. I have a Summit tube pre (2BA-221), which is great on a lot of things, and has a DI, though for bass I prefer the Brick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 rsadasiv can give you more details, but he and I got together last weekend to compare preamps - his Portico, Brick, and Great River and my 610 and RNP. Bottom line was that the Great River was the best all around choice. We liked the Portico better for vocals with his SM-7b, but the Great River was only a hair behind, and I think that was the only application we liked it better on (we also did vocals with a Baby Bottle, and we did bass DI and guitar cab). I thinkwe both agreed that the Great River "won" the shootout, so he's keeping it and sending everything else back. The Great River is supposed to be an amazing mic preamp. I've never heard a bad thing about this preamp yet, so this does not surprise me at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrJoshua Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 The Great River mentioned by albiedamned is also a great choice, albeit a more expensive one. If you decide to go that route I'd recommend picking up a Lunchbox and getting a couple of the Great River MP-500NV modules for it (one at a time, of course). That works out to be cheaper per channel than getting one of the Great River standalone preamps like the ME1-NV or ME2-NV. That said, I have a couple of Great River preamps and while they're really good, my Brick still gets used regularly, mostly for guitar amps these days. If you have the money and feel like it's justifiable to spend that much on a preamp, then going with the Great River would be a good choice. But the Brick is still a solid preamp that is very useful, especially since you already have an RNP for cleaner sounds. I guess I should say that I'm not a pro - I'm just a home studio guy who does a lot of home studio stuff, so over the years I've gathered a pretty fair collection of preamps for a home studio (nothing compared to a real pro studio, of course, but not bad for a home). I have two FMR RNPs, a Brick, a Grace Designs Model 101, a Focusrite ISA-428 (four channels of good preamps and eight channels of very solid AD conversion), a Groove Tubes SuPre two-channel tube preamp, a Toft AFC-2 (the preamps are just OK, but the EQ is absolutely killer), and a Lunchbox with two channels of API 512c and two channels of Great River MP-500NV. So I've compared a few different preamps, and worked with them for a while. That doesn't make me an expert, but I'm not just talking out of my rear, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ermghoti II Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 the reason I wanted a tube preamp is that I was looking for something to give the guitar tone a little bit of a fatter sound that could be doubled as a good di for bass. The differences among quality preamps, even the colored ones, is pretty subtle. If you want a fatter guitar sound, dial up a fatter tone. Alternatively, mic selection and placement will have an order of magnitude more effect than preamp colors. Move the mic in 1/4" increments, angle it, try different speakers, more or less difference. Then, use the money you saved to buy your bass DI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 The differences among quality preamps, even the colored ones, is pretty subtle. If you want a fatter guitar sound, dial up a fatter tone. Alternatively, mic selection and placement will have an order of magnitude more effect than preamp colors. Move the mic in 1/4" increments, angle it, try different speakers, more or less difference. Then, use the money you saved to buy your bass DI. Agreed, the differences are very subtle and changing the way you play, the effects on the guitar, and the mic and mic placement will yield much more significant difference. After getting all that straightened out, for the two requirements of the OP the Brick should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members endofall Posted January 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 Thanks everyone for all of the info. I've been working harder with mic placement, and have been discovering that mic placement (with guitars), does more for the sound than anything. I'm really starting to get into duel micing the cab, with the in flames technique (sorry I can't remember what it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 The RNP is not hyped in the high end, so if you find it too bright, you can choose different pickups, adjust the amp's EQ, choose another mic, change the mic placement, or change guitars, and this'll help you greatly!!! I hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members endofall Posted January 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 I just got a new amp, so I'm still adjusting to it. I got a splawn quickrod, and it is a little brighter sounding. Thanks ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I personally think the Brick is a great tool. It's the lowest priced, "true" tube unit on the market that I'm aware of, and yet it sounds very good. It's my "go to" for bass DI duties. As a mic preamp, it has a few limitations to be aware of - first, there's no metering - you'll have to use your ears. Second, there's only one gain knob, and no pad. Chances are you probably won't miss the pad, because it only has about 55 dB of max gain. Is that enough in all circumstances? No... but if you're close miking a guitar or bass cab, or doing vocals with a condenser, it's plenty. It might not be your best choice for distant miking with a ribbon or a dynamic mic though... But for around $400 "street", it's a great bargain IMO, and I have no qualms about recommending it - highly. :phil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 I personally think the Brick is a great tool. It's the lowest priced, "true" tube unit on the market that I'm aware of, and yet it sounds very good. It's my "go to" for bass DI duties. As a mic preamp, it has a few limitations to be aware of - first, there's no metering - you'll have to use your ears. Second, there's only one gain knob, and no pad. Chances are you probably won't miss the pad, because it only has about 55 dB of max gain. Chances are you won't miss the metering either. I rarely use it. I don't have it on my Peavey VMP-2, and never once have I really wished that it was there. It's useful for knowing whether it's passing a signal or not, but that's about it, in my opinion. YMMV. Is that enough in all circumstances? No... but if you're close miking a guitar or bass cab, or doing vocals with a condenser, it's plenty. It might not be your best choice for distant miking with a ribbon or a dynamic mic though...But for around $400 "street", it's a great bargain IMO, and I have no qualms about recommending it - highly. :phil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members albiedamned Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 One thing rsadasiv and I noticed about the Brick was that, in addition to not having enough gain for the SM-7b, it also had too much gain for the Baby Bottle. I just looked it up, and the gain range is actually 25dB-55dB (see http://www.groovetubes.com/assets/2084_gt_bricksheet2.pdf). So in other words, even with the knob all the way down it's still adding 25 dB of gain. With a high output condenser like the Baby Bottle, you will likely need an external pad. And even then you're not gonna turn the gain up very much if at all on the Brick, which begs the question of what is it really adding to your signal? I'm not saying the Brick is a bad piece of gear. We liked it quite a bit on Bass DI. But just keep in mind that it's not a very versatile preamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 keep in mind that it's not a very versatile preamp. Nor was it intended to be. It's a versatile unit though - I prefer to think of it as a great tube DI with the mic preamp features as a bonus. It has phantom power on it, so you're good there, and if you can't pad your condenser itself, then you can always use an inline pad with it. As far as output, I usually have mine followed by an FMR RNC or RNLA, so I can trim things back a bit there if I need to. I just really like the sound of it. It's built like a... well, brick, too. If you want a more fully featured version of it for use as a more flexible mic pre, then their SuPre is the unit to check out. It has tons of gain, and a lot more control, and you can even cascade the two channels if you need sick amounts of gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrJoshua Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 The SuPre is very nice. I rate the Brick higher in the "value" category because of the price, but the SuPre does have more features. Of course, that would be expected at the higher price point. The SuPre and the Brick both see plenty of action in my home studio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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