"The internet is completely over" - Prince

[Poker99]

lol

 

http://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2010/07/prince-the-internets-completely-over.html

[Opus Antics]

Interesting to guess what his true plan is here. Ultra-savvy or bumbling idiot.

[fatusstratus]

just kind of strikes me like in his youth when he was on Soul Train and wouldn't really speak or his glyph period....a "look at me" gambit

[richardmac]

IMHO it's a ploy to grab headlines because his music is no longer relevant. AS to whether he actually believes it, I pretty much don't care.

[richardmac]

Here's the whole interview.

 

I did not know that Prince was in a religious cult (Jehovah's Witless, err, Witness.) One of the comments after the story mentioned that the JW's do not like the Internet and encourage members to avoid it. I guess if you run a religious cult, information can be extremely dangerous.

 

I take back what I said. It's not a ploy. I think that he has always been messed up in the head. So what's worse - having an ego bigger than Earth, or joining a religious cult? Please don't make me choose.

[Grubgoat]

I don't think he's that far off, really. We're always saying you have to get out and play shows to make money, and interact with and make fans in the real world, which already cuts the internet out of the picture for the most part.

 

I for one have been on the internet for 15 years now, its getting old, and I imagine kids who've had it their whole lives having less attention span that I do. I also think that to "value" anything, people need to physically possess that thing, or a "physical" transaction has to take place. In the instance of music, everyone is predicting that all music will lose its value (and it'll be streamed for free, for instance), but I'm not convinced of that.

 

But in the end, the only marketable thing for a "rockstar" these days, is fame. Where else can a guy like Prince (or really Metallica, or U2) go, to *really* get to the next level? A newspaper is maybe a good bet. He's getting headlines for this, and that means more fame, and he can turn that into money...

[daddymack]

when I saw a reference to this earlier in another forum, I figured this was Prince's JW dogma being espoused...the internet will not be 'over' anytime soon...it is evolving, and it is changing the way we do things. The ability to share information all over the planet at the speed of light is not going to vanish, and won't fall by the wayside. We have not even begun to scratch the surface of the possibilities, mainly because we already ruined the original concept by trying to commercialize the web. When we, as a culture, come to realize the true potential the internet has, we will find a myriad of new and innovative uses for it.

[richardmac]

 

When we, as a culture, come to realize the true potential the internet has, we will find a myriad of new and innovative uses for it.

 

 

This is happening, IMHO, at the same time as the commercialization - it's happening behind closed doors. It's starting to have an impact on education. But I agree that we have only scratched the surface.

[richardmac]

 

I don't think he's that far off, really. We're always saying you have to get out and play shows to make money, and interact with and make fans in the real world, which already cuts the internet out of the picture for the most part. I for one have been on the internet for 15 years now, its getting old, and I imagine kids who've had it their whole lives having less attention span that I do. I also think that to "value" anything, people need to physically possess that thing, or a "physical" transaction has to take place. In the instance of music, everyone is predicting that all music will lose its value (and it'll be streamed for free, for instance), but I'm not convinced of that. But in the end, the only marketable thing for a "rockstar" these days, is fame. Where else can a guy like Prince (or really Metallica, or U2) go, to *really* get to the next level? A newspaper is maybe a good bet. He's getting headlines for this, and that means more fame, and he can turn that into money...

 

 

Newspapers are dying left and right, as are magazines. People don't necessarily want something physical any more. Physical takes up space. Physical isn't instant access wherever we are. People want digital.

 

But once things go digital, you're right - the perceived value goes down. I also totally agree that the best way to get somewhere is to get out there and play. But how do people know where you're playing? Internet.

[paulz]

 

Where else can a guy like Prince (or really Metallica, or U2) go, to *really* get to the next level?

 

 

I think Bruce Sterling did a good riff on this in Zeitgiest.

 

In short, politics...either governmental or quasi-governmental (NGOs, etc)

 

Bono's already made the move

 

 

I for one have been on the internet for 15 years now, its getting old,

 

 

In a lot of ways, it doesn't seem so special (as in "getting old") because it's getting integrated.

Many people find sinks and toilets really boring...plug up your bathroom sink for a week.

Or writing, it's a technology that we pretty much take for granted, but very high literacy is relatively new to humans and our industrialized cultures virtually require that! (in some countries where I can't even make romance language guesses, I'm reminded of that)

 

 

 

there was recently documentary "disconnected"

http://www.hulu.com/watch/118940/disconnected

 

wherein some students decide to go through, I think about a semester

Interestingly, they had some problems that weren't so much "Gen Next" social, but things like getting paychecks from student jobs and registering for classes.

 

Vernor Vinge hd a cute novell " Fast Times at Fairmont High" - one of their highschool finals was doing a project sans "connection"

[Grubgoat]

I know print is supposed to be dead. But I'm starting to think its not "Dead", its just that the industry bloated, and IT TOO is having a correction. Because I know people who still buy magazines, and books, and newspapers. I see it everyday at work, for instance a woman who every week goes out and buys the new STAR magazine. She could be looking that info up on her net-capable phone - she sends pictures and email everyday from that thing.

 

But she still buys a magazine to catch her gossip, and her vampire romance novels. I think there are people like that in every industry (like me, I still buy CD's). For instance, we used to "give" music away for free on the radio. Dubbing tapes didn't hurt anyone, because those people weren't going to buy a copy, anyway (or maybe they will years from now, as the song becomes familiar to them). I suspect the internet is this on a larger scale, but its still the same. The people who are downloading now (and not paying) are the same proportional amount of people who weren't going to pay for the LP or cassette 20 years ago. It just looks like they are potential customers, they're not, really. They never were.

 

To the people who purchase music, its important to them. I personally am tired of all this great technology not being that great in the end, and not being cheaper, easier. Like, a giant MP3 player filled with all these cool songs is awesome, until it dies, and you have to do all this crap to get the new one working, etc. God forbid you lose the entire collection (its happened to me several times before).

 

I think people will tire of that. because its not really simple, it just looks that way. Just like the BP rig was secure, until it wasn't. So there will be a swing back toward physical media for SOME people...

 

IMO of course.

[paulz]

funny thing about big giant MP3 players failing - know what they use? physical media. That's the thing people forget the medium for dat storage is...physical

 

and sadly, other mediums such as compact cassette, phonograph records, optical CDs, etc also fail, get lost, borrowed, and are otherwise subject to our pal entropy.

One can try to back those up, but

1) in the analog domain you are subject to n-gen losses

2) you re backing up to...physical storage

3) backup can't really be done batchwise

 

Like you said "it's not really simple, it just looks that way" - unflipping compact cassettes, cleaning and storage of records, polishing scratches our of CDs with mirror glaze,let alone maintaining equipment with mechanical transports. All that is part of the least couple of genertions of "gadgetry" and many of the problems (such as loss of content, difficult setup/maintenance) are at least as bad.

[richardmac]

 

Like, a giant MP3 player filled with all these cool songs is awesome, until it dies, and you have to do all this crap to get the new one working, etc. God forbid you lose the entire collection (its happened to me several times before).

 

 

Then you're using the wrong technology. This is one reason Apple is so successful. You have your iPod, your Mac, and your external hard drive for backup. You put songs on your Mac into iTunes. The songs are automatically transferred to your iPod, and automatically backed up to your external hard drive. If the iPod croaks, your songs are still on your Mac AND on your external drive. I'm sure it's possible to set up a similar scenario in Windows. An analogy would be driving a car without ever changing the oil. Eventually you throw a rod and blame the car. It's not the engine's fault.

 

But the point is valid - for those who are not "tech savvy," computer technology makes them uncomfortable and they'll be more likely to stick with the old school tools. My parents got an iPod Nano. Within 5 minutes of using it, my mom accidentally set it to Japanese and couldn't use it anymore. I have no idea how she accomplished that accidentally, but she did. I had to reset it to English for them. Now she won't touch it. My dad loves it, though.

 

I think print won't totally die. I think newspapers might. USA Today might be the only one that survives. ARGH. But we'll have books for quite a while longer. The iPad is great (I have one) and reading a book on it is not bad, but it's not the same. One day it will be, and then people will start reading more books on electronic devices.

[fatusstratus]

sounds like your mom just never got on board, but grubgoat was talking about a swing back.

 

Seems a pretty far cry from killing off the internet though.

[richardmac]

Yeah, true. She's still afraid to touch a computer, too. My dad's all over it. Loves the net. Is online every day. As far as a swing back, I think that there will one day be a small nostalgic movement, the same way we are seeing a small but hardcore interest in records now. It will be the novelty of it. But those same people will still live online.

 

I'm not trying to bag on Grubgoat, by the way. It's just that I work in technology. Anyone who deals with computer files needs a good backup strategy. Much like you need to change a car's oil.

[Poker99]

I appreciate my CDs so much. I like to see scratch on the plastic cover, they look used. They are! They are alive!

 

Take them in my hands, I remember the time when I was listening to them. I like to check the art, the liner notes... Oh well...

[Poker99]

http://thecynicalmusician.com/2010/07/prince-has-a-point/

 

 

The artist once again known as Prince has caused a bit of a stir recently, declaring in an interview for the Daily Mirror that “ he internet’s completely over”. It’s not just talk either: he’s closed down his website and barred services like YouTube and iTunes from using his music. Instead of looking for ways to exploit the new media, he has chosen to side with the old: his new album – 20TEN – will be bundled free with the Saturday edition of the Mirror. The new media pundits will scoff and – in all fairness – Prince’s rationale for the move seems a bit, well, irrational. Then again, talk about digital devices filling your head with numbers, to your detriment, may not be quite so loony as it seems – see The Shallows by Nick Carr (I recommend his blog as well). I would advise against rejecting Prince’s message outright, though. The economic side of the argument is basically sound: content distribution services pay poorly, as we know. Their entitlement mentality – the idea that they should be able to build businesses on top of other people’s work – has been aptly demonstrated, most recently in the Viacom-YouTube case. Much like MTV in the Eighties, the Web promises musicians a lot in return for free access to their music, but does it deliver? I’m not convinced. The conventional wisdom is that you need to have a new media presence in order to succeed today. I put this question to you: just how wise is it? The people who promote this view are rarely able to provide any solid evidence, or even solid advice beyond sound-good, feel-good catch phrases such as “connecting with fans”, “reasons to buy” and “hear – like – buy”. Most of the stuff I read sounds like it could just about work, though rarely are the conditions needed for it to work elaborated in any detail. As you’ve seen from my analyses, often very little is needed for the whole idea to fall apart. The facts on the ground are that the “new music business models” are continually being tested by thousands, if not millions of independent artists – the people who read the blogs that I do and take the advice given. It seems to me that if the advice was really sound, we’d be seeing an explosion of new acts that would blow the old-timers away. At the very least, we’d be seeing some evidence of their success in the comments sections. I don’t know about you, but I’m just not seeing it. What I am seeing is a lot of disgruntled musicians that feel their problems are not being solved. I think a lot of folks have become disillusioned with both the music industry and the grassroots Web-based movement that was supposed to replace it. In many ways, the situation looks no different than when I started to write this blog two years ago. Prince has fled to greener pastures – the Mirror is undoubtedly paying him a generous sum for licensing 20TEN. He doesn’t need the Internet. We’re not in such a good position – I know I’m not – the Internet is the best medium for the independent artist to maintain an ongoing presence. That doesn’t mean, however, that we should be blind to the medium’s limitations. I suggest that we view the Web as an entry point, rather than a means to an end. What we do online will only be worthwhile if we can translate it into what happens offline. A healthy dose of skepticism seems very much called for when confronted by the promises made by new media. At the end of the day, what matters is how many people are willing to pay money for your recordings or go out to your gigs. In other words, if you found yourself thinking that all those social media promotional strategies seemed a bit, well, icky – don’t worry: they are probably a waste of your time anyway.

 

[Kramerguy]

maybe prince knows something we don't? Maybe the internet will eventually be shut down for a newer and wider scoped network, say- the outer-net, for instance?

 

haha, from a certain point of view, anything can be true.

[daddymack]

well, he is, after all, a visonary...

[richardmac]

Good heavens. The Internet is probably now permanent. It may combine with regular/cable TV/phone in the future and become "The World Network" that everything is a part of, but it's only going to get bigger and more important.

 

This is not to say that the Internet is great for musicians who want to get paid. It isn't. It was a big part of the collapse of selling music. Music no longer has the same value partly because it's so abundant and the kids stopped buying it because it was so easy to steal it. Because of the Internet. Add to that a steady stream of bad music from the majors, radio stations getting bought up and playing only old tired crap and new polished crap, and competition from other sources of entertainment, and we have the current low point.

 

It is also true that the best way for a small time act to sell CD's is to get out and play as many gigs as humanly possible.

 

But the only thing that Prince is "on to" is what we've already known for several years now - that the whole system is broken and that a musician trying to earn a living had better get creative. And selling your CD to a newspaper to give out to its readers is somewhat clever, but would only work for someone everyone has already heard of. It's really getting paid to give your music away which is probably good because not a whole lot of people would want to buy a new Prince CD.

 

But I'm not convinced that taking yourself off the grid is a good move for anyone else. I present my own recent experience as evidence. I got an email from iTunes, which I glanced at, and it said there was a new single from Crowded House. Cool. I went to iTunes and checked it out, and sure enough, there was. So I went to their website and discovered that they had a new album coming out, and that were they on tour, AND they'd be coming to Clearwater in a few weeks. So I went to Ticketmaster and bought 2 tickets. And now I'm looking out for their new album when it comes out.

[richardmac]

Bob Lefsetz on this:

 

"It would be dumb for Prince to follow Radiohead, but if I were the diminutive star I’d trumpet how many people actually downloaded and listened to my music as opposed to how many discs were given away (and ultimately thrown out!) with the newspaper. An old format coupled with a dying medium. How innovative!

 

If Prince were smart and in touch, he would have utilized new media to deliver buzz about his album."

 

One thing he's right about - a lot of those CD's will end up in the trash.

[Grubgoat]

You guys keep talking about "old" and "new". New is always a temporary thing, part of its power is in its "newness". It gets old, and eventually will get recycled.

 

I was talking about "swinging back" to the physical. Here's something about the world that I've learned, because I've always heard sayings like "oh, these things come in cycles". But that's not completely true. Like, my mom used to talk about how bell bottoms were coming "back in style" 10 years or so ago, she'd worn them as a child. But even she admitted, they weren't the exact same as when she was a child. The NEW bell bottoms had a different flair, more modern cuts and fabrics, whatever. There were other fashion movements that ALSO were coming back in cycle, and those mixed with my mom's "old" bell bottom to be NEW bell bottoms, a different animal inside, even if they mostly looked the same.

 

Because, all things that cycle back, also incorporate OTHER fads, because everything in the universe moves in cycles, all with different frequencies. The new version of whatever fad or cycle we're talking about isn't ever going to be the same as the old, even if it looks that way at first glance - it will be a blend. Like, these kids today looking and sounding like the 80's. Except they're doing it in a 2010 way, with their cell phones and IPODS ad other modern touches. Even when they use "vintage" synth sounds, they're still doing it with new technology and ideas, or running digital "emulations" of the old stuff. So, its old, but its also undeniably new.

 

So when I say there will be a swing back to physical, I don't mean CD's and tapes and LPs. I won't even pretend that I can imagine what the next thing will be (just like when the CD came out in the 80's, it seemed like this was the final format - it would "last forever" as they told us, and it was "compact"..., I don't think anyone but a very few could have imagined what we're living with today...).

 

But the internet? I think its already changing and going away. In the sense that we've known it, where (like I am right now) you sit at your desktop and type/read/email. The personal cell phone has already wounded that model, in less than 5 years. So I sort of see the internet as "running in the background", where people can google something instantly or buy tickets or whatever, but then they'll get back to "real life" talking to their friends in person, or whatever.

 

But people sitting around checking their "social network profile", etc.? I think that's done FOR MOST PEOPLE, and what is gonna happen, is the internet itself will lose that "newness", that thing that made everyone think in 2001 that it was the penultimate of human genius (like the CD). And the kids growing up today will take this connectivity for granted, probably they already are. Kind of like I take my electricity for granted, and other than be pissed when the TV doesn't turn on, I don't much respect my electricity one way or the other.

 

Its like going to a show. Yeah, you could stream that show on your computer or whatever. But a show, a real live EVENT, there are animal things that are happening there, like our need to be WITH other people, like our need to be overwhelmed by loudness and commotion and music and just LET GO. These are things that call to us as animals, and I really do suspect that as an intelligent "species" we've gotten to admire our intelligence so much, that we never pay respect to our animal needs. Even though our animal needs are actually running the show 99% of the time...

 

THAT's why I think some kind of physical format will take over again. Maybe an Ipad is part of the next version? Won't pretend to know.

 

But all the stuff I read about in the "music industry" blogs, I truly think that's just a bunch of people talking to each other in panic and (near)-ignorance. Which is not the same thing as what is really happening...

 

As always, just my opinion/suspicion...

[paulz]

 

So when I say there will be a swing back to physical, I don't mean CD's and tapes and LPs. I won't even pretend that I can imagine what the next thing will be

 

 

It's already happened!

like you said in the first section, it can have a twist or be a blend

 

Mp3 players use....physical storage

personal computers use....physical storage

 

the HDD ways aren't even that different from other forms in that there is mechanical transport and magnetics, it's mainly a capacity difference.

SS memory is physical, but the transport isn't mechanical

 

Even servers use...physical storage - the but "modern twist" (and it's a lot lot bigger of a twist) there is that it's remote in space

 

 

 

But the internet? I think its already changing and going away.

 

 

It's important to remember that the internet is really just an interconnection of networks...inter...net.

The communication protocol it uses allows for a variety of data to get piped and that data can be piped along a variety of paths (including...I {censored} you not, carrier pigeon).

the internet is really infrastructure, not the applications that ride on top

 

 

 

 

I think that's done FOR MOST PEOPLE, and what is gonna happen, is the internet itself will lose that "newness", that thing that made everyone think in 2001 that it was the penultimate of human genius (like the CD).

 

 

I think you might mean ultimate, penultimate is the next-to-last, not the last.

To be honest, by 2001 the newness of the internet itself had already worn off for many (that's actually when we saw that..the tech bubble burst)

But to be honest, I don't think early adopter types generally think in terms of "ultimate", that's more a late majority or laggard classes (in Everett-Rogers terms) kind of thing or maybe more of how those classes INTERPRET and assign to the enthusiasm of early adopters (A laggard class person would, maybe require more a sense of "ultimate" to buy in with that enthusiasm and so could project that onto other people's enthusiasm)

[BlueStrat]

I like to think that the next generation of kids will be so over electronic stimulation that they will discover reality and become a new generation of sort of ascetics- go back to books, travel, handwritten letters, actual face time with people. As more kids are raised by parents who are glued to TVs, computers, iphones and text messaging, I wonder if there won't be a reaction to and a rejection of that lifestyle. Oh, we'll always have the internet or something like it, and certain gadgets will become indispensable- GPS, Google, online shopping, and so on. But I don't see how the current trend of electronically induced isolationism can continue. I'm always confused and a bit saddened when I see a table full of teens at a restaurant or in a mall all sitting together and none of them interacting as they all sit and stare at a phone screen. You can't have constant accessability and contact with people in a virtual manner and not have it affect you and the people around you. I'm hoping the next generation of kids will crave authenticity and personal interaction over electronic arms-length communication.

[richardmac]

I really really hope you're right. There is NOTHING more annoying than having lunch with someone and having them "put you on hold" - basically their phone rings or makes a bleep and they get a text message or a call. A call, they'll usually silence, but often they'll stop talking to you long enough to read the text message. I freaking HATE that.

 

It's romantic to think of teens of the future rediscovering books and hand written letters and such. I dunno. I am certain though that we can't predict how things will look. I also know that we will have futuristic things sitting next to old school things. The bottle opener I use to open imported beer isn't really that much different in design to the one my grandfather would have used.

 

Regarding the Internet going away - poor choice of words. Like paulz said, the Internet is a network. As to the long term success of, say, Facebook, yeah, all bets are totally off. People will ALWAYS want to communicate. They may not always want to do it in Facebook format. Whoever figures out the next trend will be a billionaire. Personally, I struggle with which type of pickup to put in my guitar.