Members rlm297 Posted September 27, 2009 Members Share Posted September 27, 2009 I've been using a regular mic stand w/ boom adapter and a Shure SM58 to close mic my cabinet for as long as I can remember, because I never considered anything else. The more I've read about miking cabs, I've seen photos and read about people using Shure SM57's attached to cabinets with cab grabbers or clamps. Am I going about recording my cabs a sub-standard way? Is the SM57 and cab grabber option more optimum for this particular application? Also, the Shure SM57 doesn't have the ball on the end, whereas my SM58's do. People who do use SM58's, do they typically remove the ball on the end for cabs? Any insight would be appreciated! Trying to determine if an overhaul would benefit my recorded guitar sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nerol1st Posted September 27, 2009 Members Share Posted September 27, 2009 In my experience clamps don't sound good because they pick up all the vibrations from the source vibrating them sympathetically. I have not tried a clamp on a cab of any kind, but I hate them on toms (unless it live). The other issue I see is the possibility of restriction in mic movement around the speaker depending on the design of the clamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AudioMaverick Posted September 27, 2009 Members Share Posted September 27, 2009 SM57 has been a 'standard' dynamic for decades. It is really up to your taste and budget for the mic. I agree on the clamp picking up cabinet vibration. If you were performing live and wanted to minimize floor real estate, clamps would eliminate the stand. In recording, I would opt for isolating the mic from the cabinet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members VSpaceBoy Posted September 30, 2009 Members Share Posted September 30, 2009 I doubt you would hear a difference really between the two mics, not enough to make a fuss about it. You could always experiment with taking off the windscreen if you were curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thegreyfox Posted October 15, 2009 Members Share Posted October 15, 2009 I was under the impression that 57's and 58's were EXACTLY THE SAME microphone...just with a different head on them for different uses. Is this not correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I was under the impression that 57's and 58's were EXACTLY THE SAME microphone...just with a different head on them for different uses. Is this not correct? This has been a point of debate for quite some time, and I'm going to call Shure and see if I can get a definitive answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 OK, I called Shure, and this is what they said: The internal parts of the two microphones - the motor (diaphragm / coil / magnet) and transformer are identical. However, due to the different grilles, the two microphones have somewhat different sounds, and that is only due to the different grille designs. Pulling the ball off of a 58 probably won't make your SM58 sound identical to a 57, but it may get you closer. However, if you do pull the ball, you're going to have a exposed and unprotected diaphragm, which is, IMHO, never a good idea. I would either continue to use your SM58 stock and be happy with that, or, if you prefer the sound of a 57, buy a 57 and be happy with that. IOW, pull the ball off and try it once and see what you think, but I can't in good conscience recommend that as a permanent solution. As far as a stand vs a clamp on device for an amp, most of the amp clamp designs that I'm familiar with suffer from the same design issue, and that is that they directly mechanically couple the microphone to the amp's cabinet, and as nerol1st pointed out, that means creating a direct path for vibrations and resonances to reach the mic. I tried some Audix DVice clamps on a drum recording session the other day (with a fantastic session drummer named Nat Scott), and didn't notice any vibrations from the two rack toms (the only mikes I tried the clamps on), but they have a rubberized mount to help with mechanical decoupling. I wouldn't hesitate to record using them again in the future, but again, the design is a bit different than most of the products that are designed for use with amps. A regular mic stand can also suffer from vibrations coming from the amp, through the floor, to the mic stand and eventually, to the attached microphone. You can decouple the stand from the floor (Auralex makes some decoupling "Platfeet" that you can set the legs of a boom stand into to help isolate the stand, and thus the mic, from the floor and any floor borne vibrations http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AuralXpander/ ) or you can use a shock mount at the end of the mic stand to hold the mic instead of the usual "hard" clip to accomplish the same thing. Of course, a shockmount could probably be used with a amp clip too... Given a choice, I would prefer a regular mic stand instead of a amp clamp mic mounting system. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thegreyfox Posted October 15, 2009 Members Share Posted October 15, 2009 Thanks Phil About the floor vibrations. I miced my Randall Cab a while ago to record some stuff and there was no vibrations through the floor which affected the mic. The amp is pretty ballsy. Would having a carpet or wood floor affect any vibrations through the floor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrCompton Posted October 16, 2009 Members Share Posted October 16, 2009 In my experience, carpet seems to dampen the sound more where wood seemed to add a natural reverb(sounded great though). Also check out Sennheiser! They have a great flat microphone for guitar cabs and I really liked the results I had with that more than an SM57, but paired together was a real good combo. I don't have any recording gear anymore though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Also check out Sennheiser! They have a great flat microphone for guitar cabs and I really liked the results This one? That's the Sennheiser e609. I have one, and I do occasionally use it on guitar cabs, and a lot of people really like them in that application, but it's not really my"go to" cab mic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nerol1st Posted October 16, 2009 Members Share Posted October 16, 2009 I personally hate the 609. Never tried the 906 and I'm on the fence with the 421 (sometimes it ok, sometimes I hate it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 I personally hate the 609. It's not really one of my favorite microphones either, but I'm curious about what you don't like about it - again, a lot of people seem to really like them, so I think we're in the minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cirrus Posted October 16, 2009 Members Share Posted October 16, 2009 Never tried the 906 and I'm on the fence with the 421 (sometimes it ok, sometimes I hate it). Is this just in relation to guitar cab miking or a general thing? I used a 421 on my ac30 a few months ago. I wasn't sure about it until I paired it with an sm57, capsuals aligned an inch or so from the speaker grille. I think they work so well together because the 421, while not being particularly exciting on the top end, has a great sound in the lower mids, and the 57 gets a grittier sound. Together I thought they sounded full and rich, and I was careful to adjust the relative volume so it wasn't just a louder is better thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chadd Posted October 16, 2009 Members Share Posted October 16, 2009 Is this just in relation to guitar cab miking or a general thing? I used a 421 on my ac30 a few months ago. I wasn't sure about it until I paired it with an sm57, capsuals aligned an inch or so from the speaker grille. I think they work so well together because the 421, while not being particularly exciting on the top end, has a great sound in the lower mids, and the 57 gets a grittier sound. Together I thought they sounded full and rich, and I was careful to adjust the relative volume so it wasn't just a louder is better thing. I like the 421 or the RE20 for exactly that purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nerol1st Posted October 17, 2009 Members Share Posted October 17, 2009 Is this just in relation to guitar cab miking or a general thing? Strictly a guitar miking thing. I love that mic on toms, and kick (occasionally). Actually it's pretty much good on anything drum wise (sans overheads). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nerol1st Posted October 17, 2009 Members Share Posted October 17, 2009 I personally hate the 609.It's not really one of my favorite microphones either, but I'm curious about what you don't like about it - again, a lot of people seem to really like them, so I think we're in the minority. Let me state before hand that I own a 609 and have plenty of time to try it on multiple sources (bass amp, guitar amp, snare, toms, and even kick). Because of the design it's hard to get it anywhere near what I want and it's to smooth. It has this weird mid range junk that the 57 doesn't seem to hype nearly as much. I think it's a great design for a live mic, I just really hate it on guitars (well, never tried it on an acoustic yet). I find it to be great on snare both on the bottom and top, but it's a little big and in the way to place on top, same for rack toms, great mic just a little bit to big of a foot print. I find I love it on the bottom of a snare over another 57. On bass cabs I like it because that smooth mid range thing actually sounds nice when your going for a less aggressive sound. For the most part however it sits in my locker along with the blue dynamic ball mics (another mic that sucks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 17, 2009 Moderators Share Posted October 17, 2009 I used my 609 a lot when ever I needed to tame a rizzy distorted amp. Now with own the Fatheads... I haven't used it at all. Except, as earlier mentioned, as a convenient live amp mic. Drape the cable under the combo handle or amp head and... done. No stand. And it sounds good too. Just not as good as other, low cost alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Davo17 Posted October 17, 2009 Members Share Posted October 17, 2009 You guys just blew my mind on the SM57/58 thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meriphew Posted October 18, 2009 Members Share Posted October 18, 2009 Does that Audix Cab Grabber have some sort of iso unit built in to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Does that Audix Cab Grabber have some sort of iso unit built in to it? Not that I saw mentioned, or could see from the pics on the Audix USA site. If I remember, I'll try to give them a call on Monday and ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thegreyfox Posted October 18, 2009 Members Share Posted October 18, 2009 Drape the cable under the combo handle or amp head and... done. No stand. And it sounds good too. Just not as good as other, low cost alternatives. I do that with a 58 when micing an amp at school and it sounds fine. Probably sound better if I used a stand and positioned it properly, but it works in a hurry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrCompton Posted October 19, 2009 Members Share Posted October 19, 2009 Is this just in relation to guitar cab miking or a general thing? I used a 421 on my ac30 a few months ago. I wasn't sure about it until I paired it with an sm57, capsuals aligned an inch or so from the speaker grille. I think they work so well together because the 421, while not being particularly exciting on the top end, has a great sound in the lower mids, and the 57 gets a grittier sound. Together I thought they sounded full and rich, and I was careful to adjust the relative volume so it wasn't just a louder is better thing. Exactly what I was trying to say. The 57 seemed to capture the mid-high to highs really well, an the 609(i think) tended to get those low mids and lows good. Great combo though. Also, live the 609 rocks because it seemed to me that I had way less feedback draping it over the cab right on the speaker grille with a decent sound too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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