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Help! Creating a stereo image from a mono signal.


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Sorry for the cross posting. I am usually an Effects forum nerd but I have rarely posted anywhere else so I am not sure what forum is the best place to post this so I have posted here and two other places on the HC boards.

 

I do a lot of my own home recording. I use Garage Band. I don't really need anything too special so I haven't bought any really good software yet. However, I have started to record a lot of ambient guitar soundscapes. I have a huge amount of guitar pedals, but only a few of them are stereo. Unfortunately, the last few pedals in my chain are not stereo, and all of my stereo delays and modulation pedals are earlier in the chain. Therefore, my signal is going into my Firepod in mono. I am looking for away to create the simulation of a stereo signal so that the music sounds very wide and epic.

 

I have tried running my guitar signal into a stereo chorus pedal with the rate and depth all the way down, hoping to keep the chorus sound out of the mix but still create some sort of L and R separation. The few chorus pedals I have are, ironically, making it sound like my signal is completely chorus-ed no matter how slow the rate and how narrow the depth.

 

I have also tried running my signal into an A/B/Y pedal so that I have two mono signals running into my Firepod in two different inputs. That obviously just doubled the stereo signal. I tried panning one to the left and one to the right. That didn't do any good but make it sound out of phase.

 

I tried taking my L track and delaying it just a tiny bit. It sounds pretty wide in headphones, but in the car or on computer speakers, there isn't much of a difference besides an annoying delay.

 

Lastly, I tried putting a very light chorus (a VST that came with Garage Band) on my entire signal but of course, sounds too much like chorus :)

 

So, after all that said, does anyone have any suggestions on how I can accomplish this epic, wide-sounding for of simulation from my mono signal without having to re-arrange my pedal board? Thanks so much!!

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I have tried running my guitar signal into a stereo chorus pedal with the rate and depth all the way down, hoping to keep the chorus sound out of the mix but still create some sort of L and R separation. The few chorus pedals I have are, ironically, making it sound like my signal is completely chorus-ed no matter how slow the rate and how narrow the depth.

 

 

That's because if you turn the rate and/or depth to 0, you just have a delay, which will result in (static) comb filtering at short times.

 

 

I tried taking my L track and delaying it just a tiny bit. It sounds pretty wide in headphones, but in the car or on computer speakers, there isn't much of a difference besides an annoying delay.

 

 

Did you try different delay times? This is the method I would usually suggest to stereoize a mono signal.

 

How about laying down a completely new track?

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That's because if you turn the rate and/or depth to 0, you just have a delay, which will result in (static) comb filtering at short times.




Did you try different delay times? This is the method I would usually suggest to stereoize a mono signal.


How about laying down a completely new track?

 

 

Most of my music of this nature is completely improv, or else I would say that would be a perfect idea. I have tried a few different delay times.

 

I have discovered a VST that is called widening gain. That seems to help a bit. Do you know anything about that?

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Most of my music of this nature is completely improv, or else I would say that would be a perfect idea. I have tried a few different delay times.

 

 

If you don't like the sound of a delayed "stereo" sound, and don't want to or can't try to double the track, maybe you should rethink what you want out of the stereo field. As in: put something entirely different on the other side.

 

 

I have discovered a VST that is called widening gain. That seems to help a bit. Do you know anything about that?

 

 

I don't, but a very brief search makes it look like a mid/side processing plugin. I thought you had to have two tracks to do that, so maybe it also does something to just mono tracks? I don't know.

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It sounds like you're running direct and not using amps - is that correct? If so, then why not just run the secondary, unused output from one (or more) of the stereo pedals earlier in your effects chain to their own separate inputs on your audio interface?

 

Even if you're using amps, the same basic idea applies:

 

Guitar -> mono pedal -> mono pedal -> mono in / stereo out pedal * -> mono pedal -> Amp / mic / interface

 

*second output of stereo pedal -> second amp / mic / interface input.

 

If you have multiple stereo pedals, you can take multiple "extra" outputs and run each to separate inputs on your interface. Record each input on the interface to a separate track, then pan and adjust their relative levels to taste later.

 

If you are running something like this, where you have two or more stereo pedals next to each other in series...

 

Gtr -> mono pedal -> mono pedal -> stereo pedal => stereo pedal * -> mono pedal -> amp / mic / interface

 

...then I'd recommend taking the second output from the last stereo pedal in the chain, at the point marked with the *, for your second output.

 

 

Please post your pedalboard and current signal / recording chain and don't make me have to go dig for it in the massive "post your pedalboard" thread on HCEF. ;)

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It sounds like you're running direct and not using amps - is that correct? If so, then why not just run the secondary, unused output from one (or more) of the stereo pedals earlier in your effects chain to their own separate inputs on your audio interface?


Even if you're using amps, the same basic idea applies:


Guitar -> mono pedal -> mono pedal -> mono in / stereo out pedal * -> mono pedal -> Amp / mic / interface


*second output of stereo pedal -> second amp / mic / interface input.


If you have multiple stereo pedals, you can take multiple "extra" outputs and run each to separate inputs on your interface. Record each input on the interface to a separate track, then pan and adjust their relative levels to taste later.


If you are running something like this, where you have two or more stereo pedals next to each other in series...


Gtr -> mono pedal -> mono pedal -> stereo pedal => stereo pedal * -> mono pedal -> amp / mic / interface


...then I'd recommend taking the second output from the last stereo pedal in the chain, at the point marked with the *, for your second output.



Please post your pedalboard and current signal / recording chain and don't make me have to go dig for it in the massive "post your pedalboard" thread on HCEF.
;)

 

This is great advice. I have gotten a lot of good advice from various people on various threads, but this actually sounds like a lot of fun. Lots of inputs into the Firepod, lots of mixing to do, and lots of possibilities!

 

Here is my setup.

 

d914c76e5e0c5cb16a833feb2f7faac56g.jpg

 

On the top image, the first channel of the mixer is a feedback loop in itself. The second channel is all the pedals on the left besides the circuit bent flanger in a feedback loop. The third channel is the mic through the circuit bent flanger. The fourth channel is the bucket brigade clone delay box my father built. I usually feed my field recorder or an iPod in there but only for voice clips or field recordings, never music. The fifth and sixth channel is a feedback loop, in stereo, of the three pedals on top of the box. Everything is fed through my guitar pedal board which is on the bottom. Lots of looping and delay in there. I usually do noise & ambient {censored} in my set, so the guitar board is primarily used for the ambient stuff.

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It sounds like you're running direct and not using amps - is that correct? If so, then why not just run the secondary, unused output from one (or more) of the stereo pedals earlier in your effects chain to their own separate inputs on your audio interface?


Even if you're using amps, the same basic idea applies:


Guitar -> mono pedal -> mono pedal -> mono in / stereo out pedal * -> mono pedal -> Amp / mic / interface


*second output of stereo pedal -> second amp / mic / interface input.


If you have multiple stereo pedals, you can take multiple "extra" outputs and run each to separate inputs on your interface. Record each input on the interface to a separate track, then pan and adjust their relative levels to taste later.


If you are running something like this, where you have two or more stereo pedals next to each other in series...


Gtr -> mono pedal -> mono pedal -> stereo pedal => stereo pedal * -> mono pedal -> amp / mic / interface


...then I'd recommend taking the second output from the last stereo pedal in the chain, at the point marked with the *, for your second output.



Please post your pedalboard and current signal / recording chain and don't make me have to go dig for it in the massive "post your pedalboard" thread on HCEF.
;)

 

HEY BRO

 

Good advice, but he doesn't really require a second amp or nothin'

 

He could just plug the second output of the stereo pedal straight into the Firecrotch, then re-amp (re-pedal?) it later using the same mono chain.

 

It may be tough to match the gain-staging and signal impedance though :idk:

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HEY BRO


Good advice, but he doesn't really require a second amp or nothin'


He could just plug the second output of the stereo pedal straight into the Firecrotch, then re-amp (re-pedal?) it later using the same mono chain.


It may be tough to match the gain-staging and signal impedance though
:idk:

 

firecrotch-copy.jpg

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-reamp the mono recording. Play it through a guitar amp and record the signal with a stereo mic setup (x/y, Mid/Side, Blumlein, etc., look 'em up). Mix together with the mono track to taste.

 

- copy the mono track twice (for a total of three). Pan one hard left and one hard right. Delay/move the left track by 5 ms, and delay the other by 10 ms. mix the L and R tracks to taste with the mono track panned center.

 

-reorder your pedals with the stereo ones last, and record that direct.

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Anything you do will simply make the signal a "simulated" stereo effect.

 

The one exception that comes closer would be to wire you guitar for stereo like a Rickenbacker and have each pickup go through separate effects. This might give you some different tonal differences between the two signals depending on where you strum and pick notes. There again, its the same string for both pickups. They do make some pickups that have seperate coils for each string and they could be wired so you have a stereo pan out of the guitar. This would give you the stereo effect like many stereo keyboards do or a good miced piano for lows and highs. as you strum across the strings the sound starts in one speaker and ends up in the other. With the pan knobs on the guitar, you could pan the different strings any way you want and have some really wild lead parts. Imagine a lead part changing speakers during a riff across the strings

 

My best suggestion is what others mentioned and record a second guitar or do the best you can Y jacking the guitar output and run two separate chains. Comb filtering, chorus stereo echo help with different settings. Otherwise I'd just record mono and do it in the box with stereo effects to widen the sound.

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