Members jerry_picker Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by Mighty Coogna! No we most certainly did not. What we found was that there are mathematical formulae which describe the theory, but fail to take into account all of the variables, as practical real world observation indicates. "We." "practical real world observation" = Coogna's private world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bilbo Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by Osmosis excellent point that I had overlooked! Even if you change the scale length minutely by adjusting the neck, you'd have to rectify that change at the saddles to restore intonation (after all, the frets didn't move!), resulting in the same overall string length as before...excellent post! How's this? You loosen the nut, the strings are higher, and when you press down on the strings the note itself is higher because your adding more tension to the string by having to push it further. I'll give you ten to one that the 12th fret harmonic is exactly where it was before, but when you loosen the nut you'll have to lengthen the string due to this effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members potaetoes Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by Mighty Coogna! No we most certainly did not. What we found was that there are mathematical formulae which describe the theory, but fail to take into account all of the variables, as practical real world observation indicates. no. those of us with an understanding of physics and math ALSO have real world experience, and there's no conflict between them. you're allowing your fantasy explanations to distort your experiences so the two can be reconciled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by Mighty Coogna! No we most certainly did not. What we found was that there are mathematical formulae which describe the theory, but fail to take into account all of the variables, as practical real world observation indicates. You have a problem with terminology.The mathematical formula IS the theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mighty Coogna! Posted October 7, 2006 Members Share Posted October 7, 2006 Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted October 7, 2006 Members Share Posted October 7, 2006 Originally posted by Mighty Coogna! Nope. So says Mighty Coogna, great troll of guitar physics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kung-Fool Posted October 7, 2006 Members Share Posted October 7, 2006 All I want to know is where I can get one of these physics defying guitars some of you guys have. Maybe it will improve my playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted October 7, 2006 Members Share Posted October 7, 2006 Originally posted by Kung-Fool All I want to know is where I can get one of these physics defying guitars some of you guys have. Maybe it will improve my playing. Nah...they are impossible to intonate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bilbo Posted October 7, 2006 Members Share Posted October 7, 2006 Originally posted by Kung-Fool All I want to know is where I can get one of these physics defying guitars some of you guys have. Maybe it will improve my playing. And the truss rod is broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pigsinzen Posted October 7, 2006 Members Share Posted October 7, 2006 Originally posted by Bilbo Do you notice a loose shaking piece of metal where the nut breaks the truss rod after you adjust your neck? You don't have a freaking clue. The variable is so minute as to be unappreciable. Just humbly admit your wrong and all is forgiven. Well there are 4 or so other people saying the same thing. Why? We have experienced it. Why would I lie to myself and say I was wrong? Simple. I'm not. Originally posted by Mighty Coogna! The short answer: Th truss rod acts as a spring, a spring when compressed has inertia.Inertia effects perceived string tension to some degree. Best answer I've heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pigsinzen Posted October 7, 2006 Members Share Posted October 7, 2006 Originally posted by GuitslingerTim You're forgetting one important factor in your grandiose factorialization--as a fingerboard is straightened the wood stretches slightly, resulting in an increase in the spacing between the frets, which causes an increase in string length.The only way I know my necks need adjustment is when the action gets too stiff or too sloppy. Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members caveman Posted October 7, 2006 Members Share Posted October 7, 2006 I just love these science vs. religion threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted October 7, 2006 Members Share Posted October 7, 2006 Originally posted by Pigsinzen Best answer I've heard. But to which question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pigsinzen Posted October 7, 2006 Members Share Posted October 7, 2006 To why strings feel tighter as the truss-rod is adjusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pigsinzen Posted October 7, 2006 Members Share Posted October 7, 2006 BTW this is/was a great ideahttp://www.bunker-guitars.com/tf_neck.html Ibanez used to make guitars with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted October 7, 2006 Members Share Posted October 7, 2006 Originally posted by Pigsinzen To why strings feel tighter as the truss-rod is adjusted. Madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pigsinzen Posted October 7, 2006 Members Share Posted October 7, 2006 Well we aren't making it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted October 7, 2006 Members Share Posted October 7, 2006 Originally posted by Pigsinzen Well we aren't making it up. Making what up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 Originally posted by jerry_picker Madness. Lol!! You guys should delve less into theory and spend more time acquiring some hands on experience.I'll explain it a different way--not that you will ever admit you are wrong.Scale length is calculated as the distance from the nut, or edge of the fingerboard to the 12th fret times two. Introducing a curvature into the fingerboard will decrease the distance measured in a straight line from one end of the fingerboard to the other, which means the distance from the nut to 12th fret will be shorter also, effectively changing the scale length, and the tension in the strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members potaetoes Posted October 8, 2006 Members Share Posted October 8, 2006 Originally posted by GuitslingerTim Lol!! You guys should delve less into theory and spend more time acquiring some hands on experience. I'll explain it a different way--not that you will ever admit you are wrong. Scale length is calculated as the distance from the nut, or edge of the fingerboard to the 12th fret times two. Introducing a curvature into the fingerboard will shorten the distance measured in a straight line from one end of the fingerboard to the other, which means the distance from the nut to 12th fret will be shorter also, effectively changing the scale length. yeah - and how much, exactly? how much shorter does it get, and still be a playable instrument? cranking a truss rod around changes string pitch a couple cents, which tells you exactly how much tension change there is - negligible - and you honestly think you can feel that difference with something other than your imagination? you must be able to tune a piano just by feeling the strings, too. get a tensiometer, if you don't believe me, and take some measurements. maybe, with like 1/2" of relief on the neck, you might be able to see a significant difference in tension. you assume people who disagree with you and back it up with math and physics don't have hands-on experience, and you're flat wrong about that. cling all you want to your misconceptions, but it doesn't change reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted October 8, 2006 Members Share Posted October 8, 2006 Originally posted by potaetoes yeah - and how much, exactly? how much shorter does it get, and still be a playable instrument? cranking a truss rod around changes string pitch a couple cents, which tells you exactly how much tension change there is - negligible - and you honestly think you can feel that difference with something other than your imagination? you must be able to tune a piano just by feeling the strings, too. get a tensiometer, if you don't believe me, and take some measurements. maybe, with like 1/2" of relief on the neck, you might be able to see a significant difference in tension. you assume people who disagree with you and back it up with math and physics don't have hands-on experience, and you're flat wrong about that. cling all you want to your misconceptions, but it doesn't change reality. (I have 35 years of playing experience, 50+ guitars, do my own set-ups, was a math major in college, and have a PhD in biophysics. Go figure...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members potaetoes Posted October 8, 2006 Members Share Posted October 8, 2006 Originally posted by jerry_picker (I have 35 years of playing experience, 50+ guitars, do my own set-ups, was a math major in college, and have a PhD in biophysics. Go figure...) (yeah... clearly you need more hands on experience to catch up to tim all that edumacation is clouding your understanding) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members whatever Posted October 8, 2006 Members Share Posted October 8, 2006 Originally posted by 1esotericguy What happened in here. Just put on 10's or 11's and be done. If the neck gets wacky, turn the truss. It's a Brownsville right? I'm not familiar with those I don't think. Is it the house brand at Sam Ashe? Either way, it'll survive a string change. Go for it! 9's *^%$! Eddie Van Halen uses 8s and he has great tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members potaetoes Posted October 8, 2006 Members Share Posted October 8, 2006 Originally posted by whatever Eddie Van Halen uses 8s and he has great tone. he also has an extraordinarily light touch, and people buliding him whatever gear his pickled heart desires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mind Riot Posted October 8, 2006 Members Share Posted October 8, 2006 Might I suggest handing out a few copies of this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.