Members Mighty Coogna! Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by walt0915 This is the same as my point number 2 above. The difference is most guitar necks don't move much when you bend the strings, whereas some trems move quite a bit. Maybe your guitar is a POS? As for the sensitive hands - I don't want to hear any of that gay {censored}! The point was, you have a string attached to a spring and you have the neck with a "spring" inside it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members potaetoes Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by Mighty Coogna! Ok, example: Ever play a strat with a trem set to float Vrs. A hard-tail, vrs a trem set to rest against the body. Same thing. Or do you not feel a difference in the tension of the strings when you bend notes? Got ya. you just have to push the string farther when the trem is floating. there's no detectable difference in force to bend, and static tension is still the same. again, it's simple physics, which you obviously do not understand, because you're so attached to your imagined explanations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by Mighty Coogna! The point was, you have a string attached to a spring and you have the neck with a "spring" inside it. True, but irrelevant.The string tension, as evidenced by its pitch, is still wholly determined by scale length and material (mass/length) of the string. Any coupled harmonic contributions of your two-spring problem are negligible. Think about this. How much does the pitch of the string waver when you pluck it? Also, the relative stiffness of the trussrod relative to the string means that the trussrod practically does not change in length once it reaches steady state (i.e., once your guitar is set up). If the trussrod actually did somehow impart its static tension directly onto the string, you would be led to the absurd conclusion that a stiffer trussrod would mean a higher tension on the strings (and that the absence of a trussrod would mean lax strings). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mighty Coogna! Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by potaetoes you just have to push the string farther when the trem is floating. there's no detectable difference in force to bend, and static tension is still the same. again, it's simple physics, which you obviously do not understand, because you're so attached to your imagined explanations. Do you not grasp that there is little that is static about the instrument? that the set-up and "action" are quit fluid settings that require maintenance? I don't doubt that the formulas are accurate, but they aren't completely relevant to the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by Mighty Coogna! Do you not grasp that there is little that is static about the instrument? that the set-up and "action" are quit fluid settings that require maintenance? I don't doubt that the formulas are accurate, but they aren't completely relevant to the question. Are you trolling? "Accuracy" is irrelevant here. This is about the definition of the term "tension", which is a mathematical definition.If your perception does not fit with the definition, you cannot call it "tension" and expect to be understood in a discussion of the physics of guitar.Simple.(Just watch, Mighty Coogna will turn out to be a mechanical engineer who is effing with us.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members potaetoes Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by Mighty Coogna! Do you not grasp that there is little that is static about the instrument? that the set-up and "action" are quit fluid settings that require maintenance?I don't doubt that the formulas are accurate, but they aren't completely relevant to the question. do you not grasp that your understanding of relevant system dynamics is grossly incomplete? you're talking out your ass, and i'm pretty sure you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by potaetoes you're talking out your ass... AND, he has sensitive hands! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jackamo Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 I got lost somewhere 2/3rds down page 1... I vastly do not understand how you could change the tension with a fixed length and fixed guage without changing pitch. Now I can see raising the action would cause more tension required to hit a clean note, but why make the thing unplayable? As for the top winding, which I also do not understand, I should be able to look that up... The simple answer for this guy and his new guitar is "put some 10s on it and see what you think" christ a new set is what $5? Hell they used to sell individuals when I was a kid...You can't discount that it'll fit just because it looks like it won't. Give it a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by jackamo Hell they used to sell individuals when I was a kid... Give it a shot. Slavery was outlawed in the USA in 1865... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mighty Coogna! Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Well, we can agree to disagree I guess. But know that this faction of perceptionist players will grow! We shall rise, with our sensitive hands to overcome your mathematical tyranny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members walt0915 Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by Mighty Coogna! Do you not grasp that there is little that is static about the instrument? that the set-up and "action" are quit fluid settings that require maintenance?I don't doubt that the formulas are accurate, but they aren't completely relevant to the question. You are just flapping your gums now. I think every one of us has acknowledged that the system is dynamic. What you refuse to admit is that the changes you are talking about don't have significant enough impact on the string tension to be considered a reasonable adjustment for that. And when you consider that the whole point of intonation adjustment is to guarantee that the string tension and length is right for the pitch you want the rest of it really just doesn't make sense. Mmmm, this is getting boring. Point has been made, now the guy is just grasping at straws and turning into a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mind Riot Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by jerry_picker Slavery was outlawed in the USA in 1865... Those boys is integrated!(Man, one can inject a quote from that movie into almost any setting, I swear.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by Mind Riot Those boys is integrated! Well I guess folks don't mind they's integrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mind Riot Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 You boys is gonna be my braintrust! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members walt0915 Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by jerry_picker Slavery was outlawed in the USA in 1865... Alright Jerry, don't start with that - you'll be dragging up memories of the War of Northern Aggression! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by walt0915 Alright Jerry, don't start with that - you'll be dragging up memories of the War of Northern Aggression! Ya'll ain't just whistlin' Dixie, suh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L_Z_nut Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 You guys are soooooo smart :DI wish I had the time to argue over something as trivial as this.... especially since this thread was made a year ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members walt0915 Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by L_Z_nut You guys are soooooo smart :DI wish I had the time to argue over something as trivial as this.... especially since this thread was made a year ago. We shall argue no thread before its time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jackamo Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Good one Jerry ... So from the looks of it, I'm on the right side then? You can't change the tension of a certain guage string without messing up the intonation and/or action or otherwise altering the pitch of the string? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L_Z_nut Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by walt0915 We shall argue no thread before its time! LOL... that's agood one.I only understood about 1/4 of this thread. Alls I understood, is that adjusting the relief won't change the tension enough for anybody to notice a difference... unless of course you have sensitive hands .... and the only way to actuall change the tension, is to change strings... right? *crosses fingers* please say yes, please say yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members walt0915 Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by L_Z_nut LOL... that's agood one. I only understood about 1/4 of this thread. Alls I understood, is that adjusting the relief won't change the tension enough for anybody to notice a difference... unless of course you have sensitive hands .... and the only way to actuall change the tension, is to change strings... right? *crosses fingers* please say yes, please say yes. Yes - with caveats that need not be considered at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L_Z_nut Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by walt0915 Yes - with caveats that need not be considered at the moment. I had to use a dictionary for that one LOL. Sweet, I'm right. Now I don't feel like a total moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members walt0915 Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by L_Z_nut I had to use a dictionary for that one LOL.Sweet, I'm right. Now I don't feel like a total moron. LMFAO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by walt0915 Yes - with caveats that need not be considered at the moment. I prefer my caveats medium rare, wrapped in bacon, and washed down with a nice unfiltered wheat beer. Slurp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mighty Coogna! Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by L_Z_nut LOL... that's agood one. I only understood about 1/4 of this thread. Alls I understood, is that adjusting the relief won't change the tension enough for anybody to notice a difference... unless of course you have sensitive hands .... and the only way to actuall change the tension, is to change strings... right? *crosses fingers* please say yes, please say yes. No we most certainly did not. What we found was that there are mathematical formulae which describe the theory, but fail to take into account all of the variables, as practical real world observation indicates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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