Increase String Tension w/o Higher String Guage

[J.B. Lee]

I've just got a new guitar (Brownsville GG5) which came strung with D'Addario 9's, and I can't help but be a little annoyed with the extreme floppiness of the strings. This is probably just because I'm used to playing an acoustic, but I'd still like a little more stiffness.

 

Obviously, the easiest thing would be to put on some 10's. But I'm looking at the plastic nut and I don't think they would fit. I could be wrong, but the current strings look like they're pretty damn snug. I'm also worried that the higher guage strings will bow the neck, create fret buzz, and mess up the intonation. I know these are all correctable but as an electric guitar newbie it's all a little intimidating.

 

Are there any tricks that can easily create more string tension with 9 guage strings? The only thing I could think of was wrapping the strings around the stopbar (by feeding them in backwards and then coming back over the top) but that may be a terrible idea for all I know. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

[Metal|Boy]

10s should fit on that nut.

 

I think that you can create more tension with adjusting the springs on the back of the guitar.

[mc5nrg]

Topwrapping usually results in less string tension.You could try lowering the stoptail....just not so far that the strings touch the back of the bridge.However,I'd just try a set of 10-46 strings.Most likely the effects on the neck and intonation will be minor.You can always spring for a setup of needed.If the strings are hanging up in the nut a few quick passes w/sandpaper or even a fatter string should open things up.In the olden days a setup for the strings you prefer usually came with the purchase of the guitar,sometimes you'd have to pay for the strings.Since it is a recent purchase you might still be able to talk Sam Ash into this.

[Teleken]

What everyone else said. The stock nut should take all the way up to .011s without issues. You'll need to adjust truss rod (relief), action and intonation when you go to heavier strings - if it takes more than half an hour, you're doing it wrong.

[dot-dot-dot]

The tension is related to two other factors; the scale length and the pitch you've tuned to.

 

Having more or less string beyond the bridge and nut can affect the feel of the guitar - it's easier to bend with more string outside the scale - but that's about it.

 

You could tune up to a higher pitch?

[J.B. Lee]

I guess I'll just try putting some 10's on and see what happens. Worst case scenario is I'll have to take it somewhere for a pro setup, but I think I can consult some online sources for tips on adjusting the truss rod and fixing the intonation. Gotta be a first time for everything, and I can't sit around and wonder what 10's feel like forever.

[supa_scoopa]

Originally posted by mc5nrg Topwrapping usually results in less string tension.You could try lowering the stoptail....just not so far that the strings touch the back of the bridge.However,I'd just try a set of 10-46 strings.Most likely the effects on the neck and intonation will be minor.You can always spring for a setup of needed.If the strings are hanging up in the nut a few quick passes w/sandpaper or even a fatter string should open things up.In the olden days a setup for the strings you prefer usually came with the purchase of the guitar,sometimes you'd have to pay for the strings.Since it is a recent purchase you might still be able to talk Sam Ash into this.

I do the topwrapping but notice that my tailpiece doesn't sit parallel with the body, like it doesn't fit snuggly in the tailpiece studs. Is there something wrong here?

[Pope on a Rope]

 

Originally posted by supa_scoopa I do the topwrapping but notice that my tailpiece doesn't sit parallel with the body, like it doesn't fit snuggly in the tailpiece studs. Is there something wrong here?

 

 

Probably because SG's are flat topped and the tailpiece is arched.

[supa_scoopa]

Originally posted by Pope on a Rope Probably because SG's are flat topped and the tailpiece is arched.

Is that true? I am going to have to look at that more closely. I never heard that but it makes sense.

[air guitar]

Just put some 10s on there and see if you like it better. I wouldn't adjust the truss rod yet as it probably won't be necessary. You may have to reset the intonation. But you should wait to see if you like this gauge first.

[Guest Anonymous]

The neck may have too much relief. Less neck relief will add tension to the strings.

[Bilbo]

 

Originally posted by GuitslingerTim The neck may have too much relief. Less neck relief will add tension to the strings.

 

 

Are you smoking the funny weed, Tim? Or is this your unusual sense of humor?

[Pigsinzen]

What he said was true. LESS neck relief. Meaning a straighter neck, will make strings tighter.

 

And it will.

[wah wah]

Originally posted by Pigsinzen What he said was true. LESS neck relief. Meaning a straighter neck, will make strings tighter. And it will.

No it won't. Think about it. If the strings get tighter, the pitch will go up. If the pitch goes up, the tuning will go sharp. Then you'll have to slacken the strings to tune to pitch. Then you're right back where you were.

[jerry_picker]

 

Originally posted by dot-dot-dot The tension is related to two other factors; the scale length and the pitch you've tuned to. Having more or less string beyond the bridge and nut can affect the feel of the guitar - it's easier to bend with more string outside the scale - but that's about it. You could tune up to a higher pitch?

 

 

The string material (alloy, thickness, wound vs solid), the scale length, and the pitch are the three independent variables for tension. That is all.

 

pitch = [(tension/ mass per unit length)^0.5 ] / (2 x length)

 

mass per unit length depends on the string material

[Pigsinzen]

 

Originally posted by wah wah No it won't. Think about it. If the strings get tighter, the pitch will go up. If the pitch goes up, the tuning will go sharp. Then you'll have to slacken the strings to tune to pitch. Then you're right back where you were.

 

 

Tension is different when the neck is straighter because of the travel.

 

Don't believe me straighten your neck a bit.

[Osmosis]

 

Originally posted by Pigsinzen Tension is different when the neck is straighter because of the travel. Don't believe me straighten your neck a bit.

 

 

You're referring to the action of the guitar, not the string tension. Yes, a higher action may be harder to play because you have to push the strings farther, but that's not really the same thing as increasing the string tension.

 

You can only increase the string tension by changing the tuning, scale length, or string gauge/composition...that's just simple physics.

[Darkstorm]

I've noticed that stainless steel strings feel a little tighter then nickel. Yes for same gauge at pitch. Is a small diff but lightly noticeable effect. Might try a set of Dean Markley blue steel 9's or other stainless strings and hopefully you'll like the sound and little bit of extra stiffness. Dunno if its due to stainless haveing more pds pull (tension) or wether its due to nickell just being a little more lax feeling due to the metal char's.

 

I dont know if it would apply to guitar strings or not. But this does apply to bass strings which are lots thicker. Anyway some brands same gauge have more tension due to thicker core wire. Of course if it does apply to guitar strings it would only be for the wound strings. Aka brand A's wound strings have thicker core then brand B's. Thus brand A'a strings have little more tension.

[Pigsinzen]

 

Originally posted by Osmosis You're referring to the action of the guitar, not the string tension. Yes, a higher action may be harder to play because you have to push the strings farther, but that's not really the same thing as increasing the string tension.

 

No I'm not.

 

You can only increase the string tension by changing the tuning, scale length, or string gauge/composition...that's just simple physics.

 

 

When the neck is bowed the strings have different shape when it is picked. The more tension on the neck, the more tension on the strings.

[caveman]

 

Originally posted by Pigsinzen No I'm not. When the neck is bowed the strings have different shape when it is picked. The more tension on the neck, the more tension on the strings.

 

 

And your proof would be.......

[OrvilleGibson]

I think what Pigsinzen is trying to say is that a basic geometric principle is at work, not the tension on the truss rod directly.

 

If a neck has a certain amount of relief (has a curvature), then straightening out the neck will move the two fulcrum (the nut and the saddle) slightly farther away from each other. The scale length will be slightly longer under these conditions.

 

Given that the string mass hasn't changed (it's the same string) and the pitch/frequency is assumed to stay constant, you'd have to raise the tension for the longer scale length. Having said that, I'd have to guess that the actual change in length and the actual change in tension would have to be very small.

 

Some previous posters are actually referring to elasticity rather than tension. All the length of string before the nut and after the saddle won't have any change at all on the tension of the string. Change that length all you want without changing the "speaking length" or scale length of the string, and you won't change the tension. However, what you will change is the feel, which some people attribute to tension when it's really about the elasticity.

[Pigsinzen]

The strings vibrating differently.

 

Go and test it out if you don't believe me.

 

Usually when I do neck adjustments I also have to go back and re-intonate the guitar as well.

[OrvilleGibson]

 

Originally posted by Pigsinzen Usually when I do neck adjustments I also have to go back and re-intonate the guitar as well.

 

 

When you adjust the neck, you change the speaking length of the string a bit, so it's possible that you would have to change the intonation.

[mattburnside]

 

Originally posted by OrvilleGibson However, what you will change is the feel, which some people attribute to tension when it's really about the elasticity.

 

 

Can you expand on the difference between tension and elasticity? I thought the supposed difference in string length OUTSIDE the nut-bridge length was a bunch of hoo-ha, but I'm seeing too many people whose opinions I trust talking about it.

[mattburnside]

 

Originally posted by OrvilleGibson When you adjust the neck, you change the speaking length of the string a bit, so it's possible that you would have to change the intonation.

 

 

Plus, if you add relief, you have to compensate for the fact that fretting the string now essentially involves a bit of bending as well, right?