Parallel stereo enhancement

[gubu]

You know how stereo adjustment plugins (specifically the Waves S1, the one I usually wreck my mixes with!) can give you smear in the centre of your stereo field? So, great, you've got wider stereo but the centre is pretty terrible. Vocals and drums etc. can really lose their focus and presence, even at fairly conservative 'spread' levels, i.e. less than 1.3.

 

Well, I've had some success with bussing the dry signal to an aux channel and inserting a 2nd S1, set to around .7-.8 and panned about 40% l+r.

LPF this signal at about 2.5k and massage out any resonances below, then mix back with the 'wide' signal to taste.

 

It seems to sound best if the send is set below around -10dB and the return never goes above around -6dB.

 

Maybe it would work on drums or other busses that may need some stereo enhancement but still need a 'solid' centre?

[WRGKMC]

Have you ever used Optimum Baselane? Its a free plugin the monos bass frequencies below any frequency you choose.

if you have say a drum mix with a spread you really like but lacks its center, you throw the plugin in an aux bus and wah-lah,

the low frequencies are all centered giving it the punch it needs yet your higher frequencies remain spread as wide as you had them.

When used on the mains, the lower guitar frequencies move center and everything tightenes up nicely.

 

Its not a magic fix of course, and its nothing you cant or shouldnt normally try to achieve mixing. Sometimes you may be using a stereo effect like chorus and theres just too much low end crosstalk between the channels that interferes with the vocal center and its a good way of keeping the higher FQ of the effect while keeping center in focus.

 

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Audio/Audio-Plugins/Basslane.shtml

 

The only time I use S1 is when I screw up getting the left and right balance levels even mixing and need to even up the left and right channels and use the bottom slider only.

On a rare occasion I may have too wide a mix and need to mono it up a bit.

 

For widening and adding air I have much better options to use.

[gubu]

Have you ever used Optimum Baselane? Its a free plugin the monos bass frequencies below any frequency you choose. if you have say a drum mix with a spread you really like but lacks its center, you throw the plugin in an aux bus and wah-lah, the low frequencies are all centered giving it the punch it needs yet your higher frequencies remain spread as wide as you had them. When used on the mains, the lower guitar frequencies move center and everything tightenes up nicely. Its not a magic fix of course, and its nothing you cant or shouldnt normally try to achieve mixing. Sometimes you may be using a stereo effect like chorus and theres just too much low end crosstalk between the channels that interferes with the vocal center and its a good way of keeping the higher FQ of the effect while keeping center in focus. http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Audio/Audio-Plugins/Basslane.shtml

 

I haven't used it, and can't afford to buy plugins at the moment. But it sounds very useful.

 

edit:- Ah, I see it's freeware but Windows only. I'm on a Mac. Why are there so few good free RTAS plugs With a few notable exceptions of course..

 

In actual fact, I think that part of my inspiration for 'parallel stereo' came from a post you made here before about this plugin and the need to keep low frequencies centred on some types of material.

 

Parallel stereo is really a fix for the centre 'smear' that you get with processors like the Waves S1. I've noticed on vocals and drums that the hi-mid and treble smear is quite a nice effect when the centre is 'grounded' with the more centred and LPF'd parallel signal.

And that the L+R guitars are nice and bright out wide but the 'body' emanates from a point closer to the centre and farther back in the 'depth'.

 

It really does seem to work nicely.

[Lee Knight]

 

You know how stereo adjustment plugins (specifically the Waves S1, the one I usually wreck my mixes with!) can give you smear in the centre of your stereo field? So, great, you've got wider stereo but the centre is pretty terrible. Vocals and drums etc. can really lose their focus and presence, even at fairly conservative 'spread' levels, i.e. less than 1.3. Well, I've had some success with bussing the dry signal to an aux channel and inserting a 2nd S1, set to around .7-.8 and panned about 40% l+r. LPF this signal at about 2.5k and massage out any resonances below, then mix back with the 'wide' signal to taste. It seems to sound best if the send is set below around -10dB and the return never goes above around -6dB. Maybe it would work on drums or other busses that may need some stereo enhancement but still need a 'solid' centre?

 

 

You'd need to be sure you don't have any latency offseting your effected from your dry. Like an analog master suite. As simple as insert the S1 on the dry mix but in bypass.

[Zooey]

 

You'd need to be sure you don't have any latency offseting your effected from your dry. Like an analog master suite. As simple as insert the S1 on the dry mix but in bypass.

 

 

Don't insert any unwanted phase shifting into your phase shifting!

[gubu]

 

You'd need to be sure you don't have any latency offseting your effected from your dry. Like an analog master suite. As simple as insert the S1 on the dry mix but in bypass.

 

 

If your dry and parallel track both go straight to the mains and you have your 'wide' S1 inserted on the mains, latency shouldn't be an issue.

You could always copy the dry audio to a 2nd track and run the parallel (narrow) S1 on this track, adding a sample accurate delay to compensate.

 

I personally haven't run into any latency issues running this setup.

[Lee Knight]

 

Don't insert any unwanted phase shifting into your phase shifting!

 

 

I love unwanted phase shifting!

[Phil O'Keefe]

 

Great suggestion, just as long as you have addressed any latency issues. In general, I'm getting to the point where I like parallel processing signals as much as, if not more often than in-line (insert) processing. It lets you bring in some of the effect, while still keeping the "natural" sound.

[gubu]

Ok, well the point of 'parallel stereo' is to be able to widen the stereo image without getting that smear and loss of focus in the centre portion of the signal. The funny thing is that it seems to sound better with an S1 set to less than 1 on the parallel channel, instead of just narrowing this channel with the pan sliders. Maybe this is down to how the S1 rotates the phase of certain frequencies to achieve widening/narrowing?

 

Regarding latency:- I use PTLE 7.4 and haven't run into any latency issues with this setup. The 'parallel' aux has an S1 and a R4 EQ running with no latency. As I posted above, the idea is to feed this signal and the dry signal to a master buss which has the 'wide' S1 inserted.

 

Seriously, try it on material that needs a little widening. All of your mix elements will 'widen' from their own discreet points in the stereo image, rather than just 'smearing towards the edges', as they would with a single instance of the S1.

[Zooey]

Just for fun, you may want to try this plug-in: http://www.brainworx-music.de/en/plugins/bx_solo

 

Low, low price of free.

[gubu]

Thanks Zooey, I've been interested in a quick and easy to use M/S tool for a while.

 

Try my parallel stereo too, you'll be surprised

[WRGKMC]

I found on most things additional widening makes for poor mastering.

believe it of not just spreadding your monitors appart makes for wider separation mixing and opens up that hole in the middel for vocal and bass

much better than any plugin will. I was working on a mix awhile back that had alot more instruments than I normally have and was getting crowded

for space in the strero field. i separated my monitors to about a 8" triangle (4' each side) from my ears and it fixed the space problem I wwas having with the mix.

[gubu]

I found on most things additional widening makes for poor mastering. believe it of not just spreadding your monitors appart makes for wider separation mixing and opens up that hole in the middel for vocal and bass much better than any plugin will. I was working on a mix awhile back that had alot more instruments than I normally have and was getting crowded for space in the strero field. i separated my monitors to about a 8" triangle (4' each side) from my ears and it fixed the space problem I wwas having with the mix.

 

Well, I really came up with this as something to use on material that's already been mixed. To give a bigger spread in both directions. So instead of your 'widen' plugin adding smear in the centre, the parallel processing pulls everything below ~2.5k back towards the centre. In any event, when using the S1, any setting above around 1.25 seem to be only useful for special effects and not something you'd want to master with.

 

It's really a solution for material where instruments may have been hard panned (>75%) but are a little 'small' out there on the edges by themselves. Using a parallel approach enables you to not only slightly widen the field, but also to 'glue' the stereo field together.

 

It's been a help for me on some mixes that needed a little 'filling out' and I'm definitely going to see how it works on stereo busses in the next few weeks and months.

 

Speaker placement, that's a whole 'nother thread Do you have your nearfields that far apart? I've been considering putting my desk across a corner and running the monitors at around 120'-150' at nearly the 8 feet that you says works for you. I'm not sure if it will cause more problem than it rights. What do you think?

[WRGKMC]

Well, I really came up with this as something to use on material that's already been mixed. To give a bigger spread in both directions . So instead of your 'widen' plugin adding smear in the centre, the parallel processing pulls everything below ~2.5k back towards the centre. In any event, when using the S1, any setting above around 1.25 seem to be only useful for special effects and not something you'd want to master with. It's really a solution for material where instruments may have been hard panned (>75%) but are a little 'small' out there on the edges by themselves. Using a parallel approach enables you to not only slightly widen the field, but also to 'glue' the stereo field together. It's been a help for me on some mixes that needed a little 'filling out' and I'm definitely going to see how it works on stereo busses in the next few weeks and months. Speaker placement, that's a whole 'nother thread Do you have your nearfields that far apart? I've been considering putting my desk across a corner and running the monitors at around 120'-150' at nearly the 8 feet that you says works for you. I'm not sure if it will cause more problem than it rights. What do you think?

 

Got ya, if the meterial is already mixed you do have some limited options.

 

On the monitors, yes, I'm using an 8" table with my daw in the center, and small shelf risers loaded with mixers and rack units.

I have several different sets of speakers including HiFi speakers and near fields on the ends of the desk.

I got a high end set of Harmon Kardon Computer monitors up top and sub below too. Also Below the desk I have a number of subs and even a set of

6X9" triaxial Car speakers in boxes. I deive some of the passive speakers of a 150w Alesis reference head and use a speaker switching array.

The HiFi Speakers are driven by a 150w HiFi Head. Then I have a 3500 w PA in the studio I can crank up as well if I want.

The idea is have as many listening options possible to check playback compatibility.

 

I also like the fact I can kick on something like the beefy HiFi speakers tracking bass so the lows dont fart out tracking.

I hate using headphones to track and having a decent monitor levels tracking feels more natureal.

In my case the "through" direct monitoring of an instrument is always louder than the actual playback of a track so

I usually have to run the instrument hot to get a strong track. Having extra amps helps allot.

 

When I Had a smaller desk and had the speakers cramped up close like within 2' of the ears I had a much harder time getting

separation between parts. It was too much like mixing through headphones that close.

Speaker power isnt something I lack so I can go wider and still hear everything fine.

[gubu]

Indeed. I dumped a 3-in-1 HiFi and a reasonably good set of computer speakers last year and I've regretted it more than once. It would have been simple to set them up for instant spot checks alongside my Tannoy monitors. There is no doubt that this would be a big benefit in speeding up the workflow.

 

I'm guessing that the monitors on the ends of your 8' table are at a pretty flat angle relative to each other and to you? You are closer to the plane of the speakers than you are to the speakers, if you know what I mean?

How do you find that works? Like I said, I'm thinking of a corner station with a 6'-7' span between the speakers but am not sure about having the speakers almost pointing at one another, with me in the middle.

[WRGKMC]

Well I actually have them mounted in a pretty pecular way. I have the big HiFi spealers setting on the table at the ends.

they were nothing but cabs when a friend gave them to me and I replaced all the components in them.

They arent special and I actually used them as foot stools to stand on building the studio so the exteriors were beat up.

What I did for my nearfields was I got too large hinges from the hardware store and mounted them on the sides of the HiFi speakers.

On the other side of the hinge I made some wooden pockets I could set the near fields in at ear level when sitting. This allows me to adjust the near field angles

a good 270 degrees on either side. I can push them back for a long throw and listening across the studio, or I can aim them right at my two ears sitting at the console.

 

I simply set the mix for mono, adjust the angles to where the tweeters are dead on the flip back to stereo. I can angle the HiFi speaker with a simple turn too if needed.

Thay have a wider pattern so they arent critical. The two Computer monitors are on a long shelf above the daw and above ear level. They help to fill in the center and add some air and would be simular to front car speakers that are usually more trebbley than the back.

 

The car speakers below which I paid like $25 bucks for are in angled boxes made of hard resonant wood. The wood itself is fairly thin and the wood itself resonates.

I have them pponting up at maybe a 40 degree angle. I can back the chair away from the console and I get a sound very close to what I'd get in an automobile.

They are excelent for tweaking in the right amount of bass. I really lucked out on the box sizes.

The box size is supposed to match the speaker resonance in air volume for good responce. I got luckey with my dimensions guess and they are nearly spot on.

 

The triaxial hives me balanced highs and lows too so whatever I get there, I'll pretty much get in a car. You just need a good flat amp to drive them or a good HiFi

amp with the trebble bass boosts turned off. Thats the biggest problem with using a hifi for mixing, The amps EQ us usually designed to hype the highs and lows.

I'm luckey enough to have some older ones that had switches to turn off those enhancements and give you a flat responce. its pretty much like tyrning your bass

and trebble knobs off and just running the volume up.

 

I of couse used a test frequency generator and DB meter to set everything up for the flatest responce I could get. I have a couple of analizing EQ's with LED readouts

that are in those amps aux send/returns that help to flaten the responce too. I can load say a pink or whit noise file into the daw, and then run ith through the various monitiors and adjust everything up as flat as possible. If I click on various sets of monitors I dont get no major boost of bass, mids trebble etc other than what the speakers/boxes can reproduce.

 

You can pick up a decent reciever amp off EBay fro around $50. Find a good old pioneer, jenson etc and just wire it in. You can build your own speaker cabs too for cheap.

they dont have to look great they just have to be the right dimensions for the wooders. Parts express has plenty of components for that. Crossovers, tweeters and woofers plus box dimensions for the woodfer types. Or just do the craigs list thing and grap a pair of bookshelf for cheap.

[gubu]

That sounds like a cool setup with your mains. I like the way you're using hinges to allow you to monitor back in the room

 

I actually drive my Tannoy Reveals with an old (80's) Pioneer integrated HiFi amp that I had serviced by Pioneer a couple of years ago. The specs for the Tannoys say 6ohm and I couldn't find any pro amps with a 6ohm output so the Pioneer seemed to be a better fit. It works fine as I use an old Rane EQ (bypassed) to convert from balanced line out of the MBox to the RCA ins on the amp.

 

I think I'm gonna go with the corner setup as outlined in the post above. My speaker stands can swivel so I can set the Tannoys for when I'm sitting at the desk or back in the room. I 'think' that the corner should give a stronger bass response, which is no harm as I always seem to end up rolling off tons of bass when it comes time to 'master'. Sometimes up to 8dB in a wide shelf.

[The Nick]

IMO, the best stereo widening trick is a killer arrangement. Double up on some Nashville-tuned guitars and keep em tucked under until the chorus or keep your mix mostly mono until the big moment.

 

Looking for an interesting experiment? Use soundflower to route audio from iTunes into Logic Pro or your DAW of choice. Make sure you turn on the "sound enhancer". Now, try to recreate the effects of the sound enhancer on your audio. If you're lucky, you can record the audio from ITunes into logic and line up the original sound file with the processed version. Try nulling them out and listen to what happens. Prime example of stereo widening mucking up your audio.

[gubu]

What are 'Nashville-tuned' guitars?

[The Nick]

 

What are 'Nashville-tuned' guitars?

 

 

Nashville Tuning is when you string a normal guitar with the top strings of a 12 string set! Also known as a high-strung guitar, it yields a jangly sound that is somewhere between a guitar and a mandolin. For even more fun, you can double the part, but with alternate open tunings.

[gubu]

Nashville Tuning is when you string a normal guitar with the top strings of a 12 string set! Also known as a high-strung guitar, it yields a jangly sound that is somewhere between a guitar and a mandolin. For even more fun, you can double the part, but with alternate open tunings.

 

Ok, I have to try that now Full 12 strings can be a PITA to record. I always wondered how so much country music had that 12 string sound so nailed..