Phil O'Keefe Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I've heard people criticize session musicians as being technically "correct" or "good players" but lacking emotion. For not "feeling" it. And in some cases, that criticism may be valid. But then it hit me... maybe it's less about me believing that they're "feeling it" as I'm sitting there watching them track, and more about their ability to make me - the listener - feel it when I'm hearing it back. At the end of the day, I think that's really what counts. And this is not a criticism of session players in general. I've seen lots of players in "bands" phone it in, and lots of session cats with great feel who really get it, and can convey that emotion beautifully. The key is - are you selling the song? Do you make me - the listener - feel it and believe it? Emote - and convey emotion. In your playing. In your arrangements. In your recordings. In your mixes. That's what people connect to when it comes to music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Nick Posted July 28, 2011 Members Share Posted July 28, 2011 Right there with ya, Phil. It seems to me that the best session players are called upon for the groove that they bring to the table. Look at Roger Hawkins, Bob Babbitt, Pino Palladino, Steve Jordan Matt Chamberlin....those cats have feel for miles, serious chops and well-exercised restraint. To me, I don't give a damn about chops. I don't want to hear chopsy bull{censored} all over a recording. There are a lot of guys who can play circles around the rest of the crowd, but are they the ones getting the gigs? Most likely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members t_e_l_e Posted July 28, 2011 Members Share Posted July 28, 2011 i guess the producer/songwriter/artist who is in charge of "the arrangement" must be able to "tell a story" about the song the session musician should track so he can bring his emotions up to "the story". if they just get a music sheet, tempo and key and they say just play these notes, its just about playing those damn notes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TBush Posted July 28, 2011 Members Share Posted July 28, 2011 I think this is very similar to how a good classical musician will interpret a Bach fugue or Mahler passage- sure, the notes are all there, in black and white, with all the commensurate dynamic notations written in as well. The difference between a musician merely playing the piece by rote, and a musician infusing it with soul and emotion is night and day. I had the privilege of playing on some Nashville sessions back in 2001-2004, and those producers really knew how to communicate exactly what they wanted to hear while simultaneously leveraging the individual talents of the session players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted July 28, 2011 Members Share Posted July 28, 2011 I think you really hit on it, TBush. Including the point of the producer communicating what they want while playing to the strengths of the players. It's not always the session players, it's often the guidance, encouragement, and creative feel that surrounds the recording sessions. And as for your example of classical musicians, yes, that's always been the idea with great performances of classical music. Learn it, feel it, make it your own, and infuse it with your personality and feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 A modern day record producer is very analogous (in some ways) with an orchestral conductor IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CME Posted July 29, 2011 Members Share Posted July 29, 2011 Some great points here. I grew up playing in the school concert bands (and marching bands but those are a bit different). Had a great director in Middle School and first few years of High School before he retired. That was always his point. The notes on the page are only for reference. Suggestions if you will. You have to make it your own, and make it work within the group. It's musical expression not musical reproductions. I played percussion in those bands. There would be some songs that only had maybe a couple of cymbal rolls and a BD hit here or there. But he really made sure all the percussion group was in the moment, and playing what needed to be played, how it should be played. I'd like to think I've carried these lesson on through life and my current music endeavors . Oh and did I mention he played in the Marines Band. We definitely knew how to march also. He really was a great instructor. Kind of a real life Mr. Holland, just with a good marching band that could get down on some Sousa marches (and Louie Louie) lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 I've posted this here before, but I was reminded of this by CME's post. Suggestions. A remember a drummer saying that a click was a suggestion for a landing point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 31, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 31, 2011 i guess the producer/songwriter/artist who is in charge of "the arrangement" must be able to "tell a story" about the song the session musician should track so he can bring his emotions up to "the story". if they just get a music sheet, tempo and key and they say just play these notes, its just about playing those damn notes... I agree with this. A player is looking to the boss as to what they want. That boss might be the songwriter, bandleader, or producer. So, the guitarist gets, "It's G - G/F - C - C/E", well that's one thing. If he instead gets, "We're looking for that energy ready to explode thing. Distorted chords but backed off in the verses, think Pete Townsend on the G - G/F - C - C/E, then an organic sort of roll the volume up into major overdrive and maybe try an 8th note octave thing in the chorus over the bass and piano changes, maybe pedaling when it makes sense, like pedal the G over the hook bit. A Foo octave chorus thing but your chimey Vox tone instead of that Recto tone of theirs..." So, is it the player? Or is it the owners of the music not having a sense of what they want. Sure, some players are going to save your ass along with your half thought out arrangement and song, but for the most part, that's our job. After all that explaining, the player might just go out and ignore everything you said, but he's now better equipped to do so. To take your limited idea and let his experience shine through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members driverhasabomb Posted July 31, 2011 Members Share Posted July 31, 2011 If I'm sitting in with a new group I tend to play very conservatively unless specifically asked to do otherwise until I get the feel of the group. If you're calling in guys and want them to be a little more eccentric in their interpretation of your chart then, by all means, let them know! You have to remember a lot of artists kind of miss the point and actually want their session guys to just be backup musicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted August 1, 2011 Members Share Posted August 1, 2011 Allot of good points here. When the rubber meets the road, session musicians are like a temp agency called in to fill in at a company like "Bob". They may do alot of things great based on their experience. That doesnt mean they can instantly adapt to specific musical roles unless it just hapends to be a type of music that fits them like a shoe. Someone who plays a wide variety of music may not be the best expert or up to speed on any single type of music either. Variety vs specialization type of thing. They may have the talent to Sell the music as Phill calls it, but it may not be an easy thingto do on a short notice and short term basis. If anything, knowing a session musicians personal material well and calling on him to play that kind of material is likely to bring about the best recording results. Otherwise, communication weather it be verbally, sound clips, written notes, flying by the seat of his pants improvising is going to be the only things a sessions musician has to go on. To get the best results at the best cost, a session musician has to "get it" before he can "give it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockViolin Posted August 1, 2011 Members Share Posted August 1, 2011 I think this is very similar to how a good classical musician will interpret a Bach fugue or Mahler passage- sure, the notes are all there, in black and white, with all the commensurate dynamic notations written in as well. The difference between a musician merely playing the piece by rote, and a musician infusing it with soul and emotion is night and day. I had the privilege of playing on some Nashville sessions back in 2001-2004, and those producers really knew how to communicate exactly what they wanted to hear while simultaneously leveraging the individual talents of the session players. I don't think it's written in stone somewhere that classical musicians just treat the playing of music as some sort of academic exericise, while the rest of the musicians in the world have some sort of inside track on playing with emotion. If that's what you mean. It's a classical musician's job to handle Bach quite differently from Beethoven. Naturally, Ravel is not to be played like it's Beethoven, nor is a Nelson Riddle arrangement. We do expect indications one way or another from a conductor or a producer when one is present. If the musicians aren't giving you what you want, ask for it. Demand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members groovezilla Posted August 14, 2011 Members Share Posted August 14, 2011 When it comes down to it, music is a form of communication. Just like verbal communication has different languages and dialects with each language, music has different styles and vibes within each style. Finding a musician that eats sleeps and drinks the style required by a session is must-have. As a producer, my sessions got better as my little black book got bigger and I was able to call on the right musician for the job. The jazz session required a high degree of technical prowess while the punk songs required the right attitude, which was all part of understanding the "dialect" of a given style. In general one type of musician is not better than the other, but a musician's deep understanding of their genre/specialty is what makes the real difference. groovezilla www.groovezoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RevRomansky Posted August 30, 2011 Members Share Posted August 30, 2011 A modern day record producer is very analogous (in some ways) with an orchestral conductor IMO. Amen, Phil. How come so many bands break up after their first album session? I think the HARDEST part of production isn't the technical aspects, it's directing the musicians to attain that feel and emotion you're talking about. Some of the greatest session players I've worked with walked in the studio and HIT every time, that's why they actually got paid for it, and understood that emotional pocket. My humble theory is that we musicians, whatever age we pick up that instrument, have a traumatic, life-changing experience called "Music", hence many of us go through that self-medicating early on trying to deal with it. A successful producer will understand that, for some, a studio experience is like being forced to reveal a bad secret, many musicians just don't see their gift even though they work dang hard at it. A good producer will take someone new to the studio experience and teach them how to listen, and repeat, their particular gift. Drummers are excluded. They are all emotionally healthy because they get to band on the drum all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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